06-30-1973 Minutes1
City of Salina, Kansas
Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners
July 30, 1973
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commissioners' Room,
City -County Building, on Monday, July 30, 1973, at four o'clock p.m.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag and
a moment of silent prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Jack Weisgerber, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Robert C. Caldwell
Commissioner Norma G. Cooper
Commissioner Mike Losik, Jr.
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
Commissioner William Usher
The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of July 23, 1973 were approved as mailed.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED - Thursday, August 2, 1973 - "NAVY MOTHERS' DAY IN SALINA,
KANSAS". The proclamation was read by Mrs. Earl Wicks, Commander of Navy Mothers Club #145.
STAFF AGENDA
A RESOLUTION was introduced and passed entitled: "A RESOLUTION approving an
agreement between the City of Salina, Kansas, and the United States Government relating to
Fire Protection for the Schilling Manor Sub -post." The City Manager explained that the
format is the same as was developed in 1966 when the first contract was issued. He said
the amount of the contract for this year is $55,200.00. A motion was made by Commissioner
Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to adopt the Resolution as read and the following
vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber (4). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
The Mayor approved the Resolution and it is numbered 3154.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell, to
introduce an ordinance for first reading providing for the construction of certain sidewalks,
for the payment of the cost thereof, and how the same shall be assessed and the manner of
the payment therefor. (Sidewalks on East Cloud Street and Lewis Street) Ayes: (4). Nays:
(0). Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed:
Number:
CITY ENGINEER reported on Petition Number 3339 for a street light located on
Berkshire Street north of the Foursquare Gospel Church. The petition was filed by Rev.
John Hedlund. A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Cooper
to accept the City Engineer's recommendation to deny the petition because we do not install
street lights in order to illuminate private parking lots. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion
carried.
None
None
COMMISSION AGENDA
PUBLIC AGENDA
MISCELLANEOUS AGENDA
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to
allow discussion on the request of the Silver Sabres. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion
carried.
Mr. Bill Scott explained, "The Silver Sabres have been in existance as a
competitive corpsfor about 7 or 8 years. In the first two years of our existence we did
come up with the funds to transport our corpsto a national contest, merely as an
educational thing in order to show the corpsmembers what it was we were striving for; to
show them the top corps of the nation. We have been successful in recent years in attracting
some of those corps into Salina and in competing against them in other contests so we don't
have this as a policy now. And some years ago, four or five years ago, we set a policy
that we would not go to another national contest until such time as we felt the Silver
Sabres were ready to compete and make some kind of a showing. Not eying for the national
championship but something that would add some prestige to the corps and made our recruiting
easier and build our name, which is something that has to be done in order for us to score
higher, for some reason. This year we feel like we have that opportunity; the Corps last
Saturday night, scored exactly 7 points more than they scored one year ago. We feel with
continued improvements that we have the possibility of a score above 70 points by August 18th
which is the date of the finals of the Drum Corps International Contest in Whitewater,
Wisconsin. This is the contest with the most prestige in the nation now. There will be
some 70 drum corps in it and it will take three days to complete, with preliminaries over
about 22 days and finals on Friday the 18th. The Silver Sabres are planning to make this
trip; we feel that with a score of 71 to 72, we think is realistic, that we should be able
to place within the top 20 to 25 drum corps in the nation. And for the number of drum corps
in the nation this is not bad. We would like to be labeled among the judges and among
drum corps knowledgeable people around the country as a 'comer', a drum corps that within
a year is going to be bidding for that coveted top 12 in the nation; which the Great Bend
Argonne Rebels have been part of; the Casper Troopers which we had in Salina this year have
been part of; and the Anaheim Kingsmen have been part of. We're planning a one week trip
which will involve an encampment for training purposes as preparation for the contest and then
the contest itself. The entire trip will have us leaving Sunday, August 12th and returning
on Saturday, August 18th. The entire trip will cost a total of about $6,000.00. We would
like to approach the City Commission with the proposition of an appropriation of $1,500.00
of this amount or whatever amount you can see clear. We feel like the City Commission
could properly be concerned with this from two standpoints. One is, if you can call it a
recreational factor, we do have 89 young people in our organization marching in the
competitive unit, who are between the ages of 12 and 21. Additionally we have probably 20
to 25 adult leaders who are on something more than a part time basis. None of these are
paid. The other factor that we feel the Commission might be concerned with would be the
standpoint of publicity for Salina. And we feel like there are very few organizations in
town that spread the name widely as the Silver Sabres do or with as good as taste, if I
can term it that way. I'd be happy to answer any of the Commission's questions but this is
the basis for our request, to help us offset the expenses of this trip to the Drum Corps
International Contest."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "How are other drum corps around the country financially
supported, do many cities with tax monies do this sort of thing?"
Mr. Scott answered, "I know of two in this area that we compete against regularly,
one is the Enid, Oklahoma Corps which is supported by the City of Enid and they have another
cosponsor. The other that I am aware of is Hutchinson which I understand, an ordinance was
passed in Hutchinson, this is information given to me, which created a mill levy to support
such organizations as the Skyrider's Drum and Bugle Corps plus other similar organizations.
It was a cultural type thing, and I'm not sure of the exact details of it but I was told
this was passed by Hutchinson City Commission."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "Where does Great Bend get their support, do you know?"
Mr. Scott answered, "From anywhere they can, I would imagine. They have lost the
support of the American Legion Post there which used to give them quite a bit. Due to the
fact that we don't have bingo now, the American Legion Post is unable to support them like
they use to. They're having their financial problems this year. They canceled a trip to
California last weekend because they didn't have the money to go, but we also know that they
weren't ready to go. We're talking in terms of $40,000, this year $41,500, to support our
entire year; Great Bend talks in terms of $95,000 to support their program. This is the
neighborhood you're in when you become nationally competitive because their scheduled plans
for this year called for them to be out of state a total of 5 weeks out of the summer. And
they're marching a 130 people, that's a little over 3 bus loads of people and it costs money
to be on the road for that period of time. They are competing against the Anaheim Kingsman
who have an annual budget of $150,000 a year and they are fortunate to have two sponsors;
one which is Disneyland and the other one is the Los Angeles Dodgers. Our largest
contributor is the Downtown Optimists Club which was the founder of the Corps. And they
have annually budgeted amounts above and below $4,000 for our activity, which is about 10%
of it. The rest of it we raise in many ways; work projects, contest, corps dues, etc."
Mrs. Fricks stated, "I'd just like to say, this is a good bunch of kids. They work
so hard and practice so much they don't have much time to get into trouble. If the trouble
children can be helped; the ones that stay out of trouble should be helped also."
Commissioner Losik commented, "I think here in the past we've had some discussion
regarding the Silver Sabres and whether the Cityshould or shouldn't enter into a contract
with them to perform and do some of these things. To be sponsored in part by the City, I
still feel is a very good idea. Yes, we are helping the youngsters that are in trouble, why
not help the ones that aren't in trouble yet. My feeling would be that I would ask the
City to contribute on a one time basis a minimum $2,500 toward this particular project and
I would like to see if we could discuss further if we could enter into some sort of a
contract to maintain this kind of support."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "Probably if we do anything today what we ought to do is
either say yes or no on this particular trip they had in mind and then give the other some
thought and work on it a little bit."
Commissioner Caldwell stated, "If we have the money available and we can
contribute to it, I'd love to do it."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "If we do, the funds could be taken out of Contingencies
with no problem legally, but if we're thinking about Revenue Sharing, are we in a gray area?
The only thing that would come close would be the recreational part. When I think of the
recreation part of Revenue Sharing, I visualize things like ball parks or facilities for the
entire population to use. Do we know enough about Revenue Sharing and its interpretation
to be sure of our ground? Would it be better to use Contingencies, provided we do?"
Mr. Olson answered, "I don't believe the Revenue Sharing Bill defined recreation
in any given context. I think it's an umbrella type of interpretation that was given in the
seven catagories for which Revenue Sharing money could be used. I think historically the
federal government has looked to public participation type recreation programs; such as
parks, picnic facilities, these type of things, in comparison to spectator oriented type of
activities. But I don't believe the bill specifies one or the other or any catagory therein.
It is the only area of the seven that would relate."
Commissioner Losik asked, "What about Contingencies?"
Mr. Olson answered, "I think for the first go around I would probably encourage
you, if you are looking favorably upon the request, to go the Contingencies route. You are
aware there is a $20,000 appropriation and we are 6 months through 1973, it would appear that
it would be available in that fund."
Commissioner Cooper commented, "I know that the Silver Sabres are hard working
group of young people and I know that they are a great drum corps. But aside from that I'm
really not very acquainted with them. What are the requirements for being a member of the
Sabres?"
Mr. Scott replied, "As minimal as we can make them. Mrs. Cooper, if anybody is
interested we have three basic areas; bugling, druming and color guard, which we have held
as a girl's activity up to this point. If they are interested in any of these areas, we
will try to give them the instruction that we are capable of doing in order to qualify them
to march in the line. Some people, I had a son that didn't play a brass instrument or the
drums so they took him into the corps and made a cymbal player out of him. The other
requirements of corps members is that each member is required to pay $40.00 per year for dues
and provide his own footwear. Now if this would work a hardship on someone we have various
individuals that provide scholarships to underwrite this cost. This year we have five of
our 89 whose dues are paid by another person. We don't want to hold anybody out because
they are not financially able to. On the trips they do buy some of their meals but where
this works a hardship we have ways to offset it. So we try to make it open to anybody that
wants to be a Silver Sabre bad enough to do the work."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "You say bad enough to do the work, how many hours do
these kids put in a week?"
Mr. Scott replied, "Our practice sessions this summer have been running on a
Monday through Thursday basis, 6:30 p.m. till dark. We've done very little practice on
weekends because we compete on Friday and Saturdays. Sundays we take off and then hit it
again on Monday. The only other thing I'd like to say is that the amount of money we spend
each year could go to alot of other things and benefit alot of people. My only reason
for being involved and the only reason that I can justify the type of expenses that we have
is that here is an organization that demands excellence of young people. And I think we
don't have enough of these organizations, I don't think we can have enough. We're trying
to teach them leadership along with self-discipline. They strive for perfection because
anything the judge finds short of perfection is a mistake."
Commissioner Cooper commented, "I think you have an excellent program in the
Silver Sabres organization. I don't believe that the Commission could consider any kind
of participation as far as funding is concerned under a recreational qualification. I hold
the idea that recreation funding for the community is something that would be confined to
the corporate limits. I could visualize if we went into the area of doing something like
this on a recreational basis for the corpswe might end up doing similar things for other
programs with excellent young people in them. I think it would be better labeled a
promotional type of funding rather than a recreational type of funding. I think this would
be, if you're going to use public funds for the corps, the way to justify it. This way
you would be promoting and advertising the community. We do this all the time in many areas
with tax dollars. We also support, as you very well know, a Municipal Band with tax dollars
so I don't feel that we would be making any big mistake in the funding to assist the corps,
because they are certainly assisting themselves. You have requested $1,500 for a trip that
is going to cost $6,000, you obviously have the remaining funds to do this. The City
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Manager has told us that this money would be available in Contingencies but I wonder if
rather than take it out of Contingencies we couldn't take it out of the City Commission
account. We're talking about funds to promote the community and I believe in the 1973
budget there is money in the Commission account for commissioners to make out-of-state
trips that I think you would probably get more return for your dollar by helping the Silver
Sabres go to competition then you would to try and justify the rewards on the part of the
Commission. So I'd like for the City Commission to give some thought,if this program is
funded that we fund it out of the City Commission account."
City Attorney commented, "I'm sorry that I haven't really done any research on
this. I'm sitting here having problems in my own mind if we can or cannot legally spend
tax dollars for this type of a project. I wouldn't want to say at this point that you can
not or would I say, yes you can. I would like to do a little research on it. I think that
we have to understand that we do have a private institution here which is no way connected
with the city, making a request for budget funds which are tax dollars. I don't know when
you must know, but I have some problem in my own mind whether the city can use tax dollars
for these purposes."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "Well, can we table this then until you have done some
research and come back with it?"
Commissioner Losik said, "They're running out of time. Now there's one other
source of funds that I know could be made available. Larry, if you'll research it and see
if it would be proper to take it out of Contingencies or out of the Commission fund or out
of the Revenue Sharing. I would like to have the Commission on record to approve this
amount and if worse would come to worse, I'm sure we could encourage the Chamber of
Commerce to donate $1,500 out of their Industrial Development Fund, which is out of
Contingencies."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "What makes you so sure we could?"
Commissioner Losik answered, "Well,we could cut them off next year if they don't,
let's just put it that way in a nice way. But I think there's money available so we can
let these people know that we can get it for them. It's available someplace in a legal form."
Mayor Weisgerber stated, "Larry, I would suppose, now Bill has mentioned the cost
of the corps in Hutchinson; however, it would be possible or there could be a technical
difference here. For instance, if Hutchinson passed an ordinance and as we have an
ordinance for our Municipal Band, that perhaps this organization is a city corps rather than
a private corps there could be some legal differences here."
City Attorney commented, "Well you see there are state statutes that authorizes
us to spend for a band. It provides that we may levy so many mills per year for a public
band and that we enter into a contract with a group to perform these services. Now then,
we have levied our limit, and we have probably used all of it. It maybe that Hutchinson
and Great Bend and some of these other places that are using some of these dollars are
entering into an agreement with their corps to march at some public functions and perform
some services for this. I think it certainly could be worked this way, but you see there is
State enabling legislation that actually authorizes the expenditure of tax dollars for that
purpose. Now there may be one other area that I may want to investigate. It could be what
may well be a partial solution to this would be that you make a grant to the Cultural Arts
Commission which certainly is a public agency and through them they would want to assist.
This may be possible. The Cultural Arts are a branch of the city and we have authorized
them by ordinance to adopt a budget for cultural purposes. We have no limit on them other
than they give a budget and you approve it. Now you are the governing body as such and if
you would authorize them to and furnish the funds they certainly could do it. They are part
of your budget and you could switch from Contingencies to Cultural Arts without their
specific budget being in trouble with state law. You can switch within funds within the
general budget."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "If you could do it to Cultural Arts why couldn't you
do it to Contingencies or any of the other funds?"
City Attorney stated, "Once again, I don't know. The problem is in my own mind at
this point without doing any research."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "Larry, how long might it take you to check this out?"
City Attorney replied, "If you want to do this, as far as I'm concerned if you
want to make it an approval of an amount subject to checking as to what can legally be done,
this would be fine."
Commissioner Cooper stated, "I'd rather wait to find out where it's going to come
from."
City Attorney stated, "I would try to come back to you next Monday with something."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "Bill, am I right in saying that you're going to take this
trip regardless as to what we do?"
Bill Scott answered, "Yes sir."
Mayor Weisgerber stated, "I don't mean to cheat you out of the financial thing
necessarily, but if we would put this on the agenda for next week and give Larry time to
research this to see which fund we can use, would this be satisfactory?"
Commissioner Caldwell commented, "I would rather accept the motion that
Commissioner Losik made that we go ahead and approve it and that way they would know if they
possibly could get it."
Commissioner Cooper commented, "This is true, but in the past we have always
specified when we approve the funding of something where and how it was going to be funded.
So there isn't going to be any time difference involved whatsoever. We're going to have to
wait until Larry researches it so it isn't going to save any time or anything else, and if
it's possible legally I think you are aware that the Commission would be willing to go along
with it. So I don't think we should officially approve it until we know how we're going
to fund it."
Commissioner Losik asked, "Would next Monday be too late, Bill?"
Bill Scott answered, "We're leaving 5 days after that, we would appreciate it if
it could be considered and decided upon at least by next Monday."
Mr. Olson stated. "I think.to answer your specific question you have decided it
will come out of the General Fund. Whether it comes from the Commission account, Cultural
Arts, or Industrial Development or whichever, I think what you are saying here is that if it
comes out one of these two or Contingencies or any other that it still is going to come out
of the General Operating Fund. You can, you know, within the General Operating Fund use the
money back and forth between the departments. Apparently what Mr. Caldwell is saying is he
is asking the City Attorney to research and authorize the check to be written from the
appropriate account within the General Operating Fund and if there isn't any appropriate
fund there won't be any check written."
Commissioner Cooper stated, "Until he tells us which account is appropriate, I
would rather wait, because the timing element is going to be the same. Is it not?"
City Manager answered, "Yes, only for their sake."
Commissioner Losik commented, "Larry, if you could have that answer, I would
prefer to have a decision tonight but if we can't would you be able to come up with
something. I know you'll find in one of the three funds we've discussed where there will
be a legal way of doing it through the Commission, Contingencies or through the portion of
the Commission Fund that handles Cultural Arts or the Industrial Development. Now there is
someplace in those that is legal, if nothing more there isn't anything that says the Chamber
of Commerce can't use what they have set aside for contingencies in their Industrial
Development Fund."
Mayor Weisgerber stated, "I think what you're saying Larry, is that you're not
absolutely sure that we can use any of these funds."
City Attorney said, "This is what I would like to clear in my own mind before
I would say yes or no; I would have to do some research."
Leon Ashton commented, "I had one question I'd like to ask of Larry. Is there any
way the City of Salina could determine this is a function of the city just like our band,
and set up some kind of a levy for preceding years because the way this drum and bugle corps
is moving now, they're going to have the same problem next year and so on down the line.
We have the best ambassadors for Salina in this drum and bugle corps that we've ever had,
and they represent us in a manner that we could all point with pride to. I'd like to see
something more on a long range program where the City of Salina would declare through a
proclamation that the drum and bugle corps was an official drum and bugle corps for Salina
and some way set it up in the budget so they would have some kind of money for each year."
City Attorney answered, "Well it may be possible through this band fund that we
levy annually, there may be a possibility of entering into a contract in future years to
perform some services and thereby giving them some money."
Commissioner Cooper stated, "I think one year we tried to share that fund with
the Municipal Band and the Municipal Band didn't want to share."
Commissioner Losik stated, "This is the point, Larry, that I mentioned when I said
to get back to where we could enter into a contract or look into it, because this is what we
have actually, we've entered into a contract with the Municipal Band. We did try that and
we fell flat on our face and had all kinds of problems. I would like to see if we can't
work that in again. Now this is not to do away with the band this is just to add something
more along these lines."
Commissioner Caldwell commented, "I think at that time they wanted to share what --�
the Municipal Band was getting with the Silver Sabres. I think what we're talking about
now is to increase the amount for the Municipal Band to include the Silver Sabres,"
Commissioner Losik said, "We wanted to make a separate contract with them is what
we had originally wanted to do, but the band was afraid we were going to eliminate them and
that wasn't true. It got to be such a big hassel that we dropped it."
Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, back to the Sabres, I guess we're at a point
until Larry reports back to the Commission as to where the funding should come from, we will
momentarily delay the decision on the request. Is that right, is that where we are?"
Commissioner Losik stated, "I think we're to the point where we are at agreement
to give them this money if we can find a legal source for the funds. I make a motion to
approve the expenditure of $1,500.00 based on the appropriate funds that the attorney
can advise us that it should be taken from and report back to us on next Monday's meeting."
Commissioner Caldwell said, "I second that motion."
Mayor Weisgerber called for a vote on the motion. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Cooper to
allow discussion on the improvements around the Community Theatre. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
Commissioner Losik commented, "I think we've committed ourselves to the
landscaping, paving, etc. in that area. The point I'm trying to make is that I think now
between now and fall is the time to start making these improvements over there. I'd like
to have Dean show us what we need to do to get that site landscaped properly and other than
the overall paving for the parking areas, all of the sidewalks, the whole thing with the
exception of the parking areas,give us a cost estimate. I would like to see that funded
and I'd like to see us let a contract and get the thing going so that by fall we'd have
a good start and that place would be looking the way it's suppose to. In addition to that
it might be that we would also through this type of planning, there might be some smaller
contractors who in the past have not been able to compete for some of this business; would
be able to come through for this smaller area. My motion is that Dean draw up the plans
and cost and that we proceed as rapidly as we can to get that place landscaped, the sidewalks
in and the parking areas we would look at as a separate project. I think the architect has
already given us the biggest part of that, hasn't he?"
Dean Boyer answered, "Well, no. They didn't actually have it, however, we are
at the stage of getting it together. I would like to have the parking area on the west side
of Third street included in the overall plan."
Commissioner Losik stated, "Put it in there, Dean, and identify it cost wise so
we can see what we can do if we were short on monies."
Mayor Weisgerber stated, "The funding for that probably should be tied in with
your report. It seems to me there are several areas that we could use. Now this is one
area where we could use Revenue Sharing if we chose, or we could use park funds or several
other possibilities."
Mr. Olson commented. "We had thought of going with BOR applications at least for
site development, now it's getting a little late and we're going to have to rush the
concrete work and make sure we get it completed before they open in September. The site
development, planting and shrubs and this type of thing, we could probably go with a small
application with BOR."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "The concrete work really is the prime thing because we
sure need to have the walks."
Commissioner Losik commented, "I stated that if Dean could come up with a plan
we can have an overall picture and whether we want to go ahead and apply for BOR funds is
one thing, but at least we've got it ready to go and what we can do ourselves let's get it
going."
Commissioner Cooper stated, "I'll second that motion."
Commissioner Caldwell asked, "Are you still considering using city help on that
project at all?"
Dean Boyer said, "I think the need is for the circle drive. As of now, there is
no way to get into the building. What we thought, we'll go along with the plan, but still
let's find the fastest way possible to at least get this circle drive in."
Commissioner Losik stated, "But I'm opposed to tacking this stuff on to a existing
contract because we don't have an amount of money that we are going to be spending for that.
That's why I brought up the suggestion for you to come up with an overall plan."
The Mayor asked for a vote on the motion to have the Engineer draw up plans and
cost of driveway, walks, and landscape of the area and to include parking on west side of
Third Street and include alternate sources of funding. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion
carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik that
the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
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Mr. Olson said, "I haven't
looking at the circle drive, we could
discussed in any final terms, with Dean. My thinking,
get it in immediately merely by extending the unit
cost of an existing contract that we
have.
It could be possible with City forces to put
sidewalks in that go along both sides
of the
building, then the only additional concrete
work that remains, as I invision the
project
anyway, would be the unloading driveway to the
rear of the building."
Dean Boyer said, "I think the need is for the circle drive. As of now, there is
no way to get into the building. What we thought, we'll go along with the plan, but still
let's find the fastest way possible to at least get this circle drive in."
Commissioner Losik stated, "But I'm opposed to tacking this stuff on to a existing
contract because we don't have an amount of money that we are going to be spending for that.
That's why I brought up the suggestion for you to come up with an overall plan."
The Mayor asked for a vote on the motion to have the Engineer draw up plans and
cost of driveway, walks, and landscape of the area and to include parking on west side of
Third Street and include alternate sources of funding. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion
carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik that
the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
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