07-31-1972 Minutes174
City of Salina, Kansas
Commissioners' Meeting
July 31, 1972
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commissioners' Room,
City -County Building, on Monday, July 31, 1972, at four o'clock P.M.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and
a Moment of Silent Prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Jack Weisgerber, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Leon L. Ashton
Commissioner Robert C. Caldwell
Commissioner Norma G. Cooper
Commissioner Mike Losik, Jr.
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of July 24, 1972, were approved as mailed.
STAFF AGENDA
THE CITY ATTORNEY reported on the proposed financing for the Cultural Arts
Office facility. (Referred to him at the July 24, 1972 meeting)
The City Attorney explained that, because of the confusion last week as to the
architects estimate, he asked that they confirm their estimate in writing, which they did.
He said they indicated that the site development, contingencies, plus the general
construction contracts were a total of $23,800. The bids which were received were $23,214,
so they are within the engineer's estimate, or below the engineer's estimate, and could be
accepted. He said the most feasible method of financing would be to adopt an ordinance
for the issuance of General Obligation Bonds under the general improvement section, and
once this ordinance is adopted, they could accept the bid and not be in violation of the
cash basis law. He said that in the event that, by the end of the year, the Commission
has determined that there are funds available from contingencies, or elsewhere within
the General Operating Budget, you could go ahead and pay it, and not have to issue bonds.
He further explained, you would proceed on the basis of issuing temporary notes and the
General Obligation bonds at some later date. It may be that you may never issue the bonds,
but you would make a levy a year from now of approximately 4/10 of a mill in Bond and
Interest to pay off the temporary notes or obligation bonds, whichever the case may be.
Commissioner Caldwell moved that the City Attorney be instructed to prepare an
ordinance for the issuance of General Obligation Bonds for the amount of $25,600.00.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Ashton.
The City Attorney explained they could not issue bonds for more than they
actually need. The ordinance would read that they could issue General Oglibation Bonds not
to exceed $25,600, but the amount of bonds to be issued cannot exceed what is actually
used for that purpose.
Commissioner Cooper said she would just like to say one thing, "I believe
everybody understands that this suggested figure of $25,600 in no way reflects an enlargement
or an improvement of the program. This is simply for a new home for the Cultural Arts
Commission. Also, that this is a period of time when people are asking for more services
and more programs; it is also a period of time when people are equally asking government
to try and hold the cost of operations, and I would like to know when we plan on trying
to do something about this situation? We go along and we grant requests weekly, monthly,
day -in and day -out for people who want additional services and programs, but it doesn't
say we make any real effort to try and hold down costs. We tell people in this community
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who are having a hard time paying the cost for local government, that you also have to pay
the rate increase for the taxicabs if you want transportation, that you also have to pay
for the water increase that is going to be coming along, you have to pay for the additional
fire equipment that this community needs. Well, I think this is right because these are
things that we do have to have, but this is an item that would be nice, but we do not have
to have it. The program could be administered the same without a new building. I think
this is an opportunity for this Commission, if they really want to demonstrate the fact
that they are trying to run as efficiently as possible, that they could show this kind of
an attitude if they choose to at this time. That is all."
Commissioner Losik said, "I can add nothing more to what was said other than to
repeat, and I am looking forward to the day when this Commission will honestly make an
honest effort and try and save the taxpayers money. That is all I have, and I also call
for the question."
Mayor Weisgerber called for a vote on the question. Ayes: Ashton, Caldwell (2).
Nays: Cooper, Losik (2). Mayor voted Aye. Motion carried.
THE COMMISSIONERS RECONSIDERED the bids received for Fire Trucks and recommendations
made by the Fire Chief on July 24, 1972.
The City Attorney explained that this was referred partially to him and partially
to the Chief. He said he did indicate that he did want to take a look at these bids, in as
much as there was some indication of possible some of the consideration may have been on
the basis of the change that was made after the bids were opened. He said, "As I indicated
last week, and as I would reiterate today, the prices and the specifications must be
determined as of the date those bids were opened. You cannot, in order to determine
whether one bid was high or one bid was low, take into consideration anything that was
submitted after the bids were opened; and by the same token, you must consider the
specifications as of the date those bids were opened. I think the only part that was in
question was the aerial ladder truck, and there was some question of a deduct where a
front pump or pump which I am not familiar with, and I have indicated to the Chief that I
feel we should not take this into consideration, and by the same token, I think he should
base his specifications on the date they were opened. Now, my understanding, as far as
the specifications were concerned, the height of one truck did not meet the specifications
the day the bids were opened, but by later letter one company indicated they could change
the height of the truck. My report to you is this --- you should base your decision as to
whether it met specifications as to your bid prices as of the date they were opened and not
with any alterations that occurred afterwards. I would also state you are not necessarily
obligated to take the lower bid. I think our specifications provided that the City has the
right to accept or reject any bids, and by State Law, we are not obligated to take bids on
this piece of equipment; however, I think the bids should be based on how they were as they
were opened, the specifications as they were opened, and then your decision made accordingly,
as to which you feel is the best piece of equipment for the City. If it is low, fine; if
it is not, there should be some justification for not accepting it.
Fire Chief Bross said he has a written report which was prepared during the week
and presented to the City Manager this morning, which again reiterates their justifications
for the purchase of an American LaFrance aerial. He said as he understood it last week,
there was no question on their recommendation on the pumper. He said, "This week we feel
that our recommendation last week was valid, and we come with the same recommendation this
week; so therefore, the pumper had no question last week, and we go on with the aerial.
Last week, as I said, we justified the purchase of an American LaFrance aerial simply upon
the merits of the American LaFrance aerial itself. We pointed out nothing that we had
noticed or been told about drawbacks in the other company's apparatus. If we could refer
to these companies as American Fire and LaFrance, it might clarify the situation. American
Fire reported to us, by their own report, that they have built 20 pieces of apparatus in
the history of their company, two of these were 100 foot ladders. We called both of the
chiefs of the cities where these 100 foot ladders were claimed to be in service. They both
reported to us the ladders are not in service, but one will be delivered in September and
the other will be delivered in October. This is part of the reason we did not recommend
the other truck. This indicates to us that this 100 foot ladder truck will be a prototype
apparatus. These trucks are built up from a Grove aerial ladder, North American Fire pump,
various valves, connections, piping, and of course both manufacturere use the same engine,
the same transmission, and roughly the same rear end, drive line, axles, brakes and so
forth. Our concern here is that in the building of this apparatus, modifications would be
made from the two they are working on now, which would make it impossible for us possible
to get components of the apparatus for repair in the future. If our apparatus exceeds
114 inches in height, due to the incline ramp and the overhang of the ladder to the rear,
it won't enter the apparatus door, and we can't park it in the station, so the apparatus
has to be under the total height of 114 inches. The original drawing that came with the
American Fire specifications stated that the apparatus would be 115 inches in overall
height. Now that doesn't seem like much, but we can't be responsible for this apparatus
getting in the door if it is over 114 inches. Our staff officers represent over 125 years
of service in the Fire Department, and we are concerned with the Fire Department and the
City of Salina, and all the citizens that we serve in the City and our recommendations are
based on consideration for all these people. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to
answer them."
Commissioner Losik asked if the representatives from American Fire and American
LaFrance were present. He said maybe these gentlemen could shed some light on the problem.
Mr. Anderson, American Fire Apparatus Company of Battle Creek, Michigan, and
Mr. George Kline, American LaFrance Equipment Company were present. Each spoke on the
qualities of his equipment.
Commissioner Ashton asked the American Fire representative if all the information
related today was made available to the Fire Department prior to today.
Mr. Anderson said they sent a representative of the Grove Manufacturing Company
and he gave them the details of the Grove aerial.
Commissioner Cooper asked Chief Bross if, when the specifications were drawn up,
did he at that time among the other requirements specify that it would have to have a
clearance of not to exceed 114 inches?
Chief Bross explained that this was part of the specifications, and it would
have to be strictly complied with, because of the height of the apparatus doors.
Commissioner Cooper said, "Then American Fire did not meet this requirement?"
Chief Bross replied that they did not, not in their original drawing. He added
that one week later, by special mail, they did say they could build the truck to 114 inches;
but at the time the bids were opened, they did not meet the specifications.
Commissioner Losik asked if the other company met all the requirements.
Chief Bross replied that they did.
Mr. Charles Walker, a local businessman, said Gary Weis has been in business here
for 10 years, he has several people employed, they all pay taxes, and Gary pays a lot of
taxes. Gary takes care of 80 - 90% of the fire trucks purchased in Kansas. He said we
have a man right here in Salina that manufactures his own fire trucks as well as represents
the American Fire Apparatus Company. He met all the specifications, possibly with the
exception of the 114 inches, which they can comply with. He was the low bidder. He said
he did not see how they could consider giving the bid to an out-of-town concern. We
would all appreciate the bid staying local.
Chief Bross also mentioned that there were 11 unanswered questions on the
American Fire Apparatus questionnaire, these would be additional things that did not meet
the specifications.
Gary Weis said if there were 11 unanswered questions, he was not aware of it.
Mayor Weisgerber commented that Mr. Weis had the bid on the pumper, but he
personally feels they are new in the building of an aerial of this size.
Mr. Weis said he would like to add one more thing, to let the Commissioners
know this field is not new to him. The different cities in Kansas are constantly dealing
with them because they do give service. He said he has taken many of the American LaFrance
customers away from them, because his company will give them service.
Chief Gross stated they are basing their recommendation on a 25 year old truck
that is still in service, and they have no problems whatsoever in getting parts for this
piece of equipment. He said they do their own maintenance on all of the equipment.
Commissioner Losik said he would like to make a point blank statement, "You are
saying that the American LaFrance is your choice of vehicles. Do you say the American
Fire apparatus does not meet your specifications? Does it meet your specifications for an
aerial of this size?"
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Chief Bross answered, "No, sir, not as received as of the day the bids were opened."I
Commissioner Losik added, "Based on the 1" clearance, is that right?"
Chief Bross replied, "And 10 additional unanswered questions in the questionnaire".
Chief Bross went forward to talk with the Commissioners and show them the
drawings of the equipment.
Commissioner Losik asked if the American Fire Equipment did not meet the
specifications, why wasn't it stated then, that after checking it over, it didn't meet
the specifications, instead of using the justification that was used?
Chief Bross replied, "I had hoped you would award the bid on merits. I didn't
want to get into a public discussion of faults in the bids."
Commissioner Cooper commented that she had no knowledge of Fire Equipment, and
she can appreciate what the people are saying about the local business, but she said, "At
the same time the City does have a set procedure which we must follow. American Fire or
American LaFrance, neither one, confines their business transactions to just their community,
so they cannot expect their purchasers to confine their business transactions to the
particular community. The Chief has said to this Commission that he believes the American
Fire aerial does not meet the specifications, so if it does not meet the specifications
then of course, it would not be the low bidder. That's the only way I know how to say it,
even though I do understand what they are saying about the cost involved and the fact
that some think the money should be applied locally. American Fire, on the breakdown of
the bid sheet, appears to be the low bidder, but they did not meet the specifications.
Is this correct?"
Chief Bross replied, "Yes."
Commissioner Ashton commented that we are all concerned with business here in
the City of Salina, and are obligated to take care of one another, but we are talking
about a piece of equipment to be used 25 years or longer. He said he feels this is a very
important issue. He feels the Fire Chief and the people in the Fire Department are the
ones who should judge and make the decision, because we as Commissioners never use the
equipment and we have to base our decisions on what they feel would be best for their
department; and with these thoughts in mind, I would like to bring my motion before the
Commission that we go along with the Fire Chief and Captains who have analyzed this and
recommended to the City Commission that we purchase the American LaFrance Aerial for
$92,902.00, and the American Fire Pumper for $55,351.00. The motion was seconded by
Commissioner Cooper. Ayes: Ashton, Caldwell, Cooper, Weisgerber (4). Nays: Losik (1).
Motion carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Ashton, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to
introduce an ordinance for first reading for the levying of special assessments against
certain properties to pay the cost of the demolition of structures located thereon, which
were ordered removed or demolished by the Public Officer pursuant to Article II of Chapter
16 of The Salina Code. (Total amount of assessments is $12,650.00.) Ayes: (5). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed: VJ 7 z Number: 72 3 S
A RESOLUTION was introduced and passed entitled: "A RESOLUTION authorizing the
temporary investment of approximately $760,000.00 of Idle Funds of the City of Salina,
Kansas." A motion was made by Commissioner Ashton, seconded by Commissioner Cooper to
adopt the Resolution as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Ashton, Caldwell,
Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the Resolution and
it is numbered 3125.
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on various streets to be machine overlaid which was
referred back to him on June 26, 1972, for re -checking.
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Cooper to
accept the recommendation of the City Engineer, and set the date of August 14, 1972, as the
date to receive bids, and to instruct the City Clerk to advertise for bids. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
COMMISSION AGENDA
None
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PUBLIC AGENDA
MISCELLANEOUS AGENDA
MAYOR WEISGERBER announced that the meeting next Monday will be at 7:00 o'clock
to have a Budget Hearing, and to consider all other items on the agenda.
COMMISSIONER LOSIK said he would like to bring up an item about the Salina City
Planning Commission, if the other Commissioners agreed, referring to an item on the Salina
City Planning Commission agenda for tomorrow, concerning an area outside the City and within
the three mile limit. He asked how the Salina City Planning Commission can hold a hearing
on something we have no control over.
Mayor Weisgerber said he feels the County Commissioners are trying to have the
Salina City Planning Commission look these things over, until the Metropolitan Planning
Commission becomes final. He said he feels the County Planning Commission wants to
cooperate with the Salina City Planning Commission, and asked for their opinion to use as
a guideline.
Commissioner Losik said he is not against it, but he would like to know what
is legal.
The City Attorney explained that he heard this morning that the Saline County
Planning Commission wanted an opinion from the Salina City Planning Commission. He said
he didn't think there is anything wrong with the Salina City Planning Commission giving
a recommendation. The Salina City Planning Commission cannot rezone it. It must be done
according to State Law. The County Attorney will have to determine if they have complied
with State Law.
Commissioner Losik asked, "Can the Salina City Planning Commission legally hold
this public hearing on that parcel of land?"
The City Attorney said there is nothing illegal about them having a hearing on
it, but as far as it having any validity, will have to be determined by the County Attorney.
Commissioner Losik said, "Then technically that item is an informal portion of
the meeting."
The City Attorney replied that is correct.
COMMISSIONER COOPER asked if we have had formal approval of the agreement for
the Metropolitan Planning Commission.
The City Attorney said he called the Office of the Attorney General again on
Friday, and left word for him to call back. He never did call. The City Attorney said
the Assistant Attorney General assured him some time ago that it was okay, and that we
would have the final thing a week ago today, so he doesn't know how we stand on it.
A motion was made by Commissioner Ashton, seconded by Commissioner Losik that
the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners adjourn. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion
carried.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk