04-24-1972 Minutes861
City of Salina, Kansas
Commissioners' Meeting
April 24, 1972
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commissioners'
Room, City -County Building, on Monday, April 24, 1972, at seven o'clock p.m.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag
and A Moment of Silent Prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Jack Weisgerber, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Robert C. Caldwell
Commissioner Norma G. Cooper
Commissioner Mike Losik, Jr.
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
Commissioner Leon L. Ashton
The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of April 17, 1972, were approved as mailed.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Week of May 1 through 7, 1972 - "RESPECT FOR LAW WEEK".
The proclamation was read by Mr. Dale Cole, of the Breakfast Optimist Club. They will be
having a joint meeting of the two optimist clubs on Monday, at noon to honor all law
officers in all areas. He said one will be chosen to represent the group.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Month of May, 1972 - "SENIOR CITIZENS MONTH IS SALINA,
KANSAS". The proclamation was read by Mr. Joe Keeling, President of the American
Association of Retired Persons. Mayor Weisgerber said this is a pretty active group.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED May 1st, 1972 - "LOYALTY DAY". The proclamation is
sponsored by the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and the proclamation was read by a member of
the Veterans of Foreign Wars.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Month of May, 1972 - "ABWA SCHOLARSHIP MONTH". The
proclamation was read by Mrs. Elna Sloop, President of the Salina Charter Chapter of
American Business Women's Association. Mrs. Sloop introduced Mrs. Baker, President of
the Vista Chapter, and Mrs. Thies, President of the Sunflower Chapter, who were also
present.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED Monday, May 1st, 1972 - "LAW DAY USA". The proclamation
was read by Mr. Rodney Nitz, County Law Day Chairman of the Saline County Bar Association.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Week of April 24 through May 1, 1972 - "BACK A GIRL
SCOUT WEEK". The proclamation was read by Mr. Larry Justus, Campaign Chairman.
STAFF AGENDA
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
declaring an emergency to exist in regard to necessary Fire Department equipment; providing]
for the purchase of certain equipment for the City of Salina, and providing for the j
payment therefor." A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner
Caldwell to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell,
Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber (4). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance
and it is numbered 8203. The ordinance was introduced for first reading April 17, 1972.
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A LETTER was received from the Department of Housing and Urban Development, dated,
April 18, 1972, relating to Code revisions necessary to meet Workable Program requirements.'
A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik to refer the
letter to the Citizens Advisory Committee and the Building Code Advisory Board for their
recommendations.
Commissioner Losik added that it might have been helpful, when the adoption of
the 1971 Edition of the National Electrical Code was discussed, to know that these changes
were going to be required. He wanted to know if there are any more items HUD requires us
to do.
Commissioner Cooper wanted to know if the proper sections will go to the proper
boards for review.
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She was informed they would.
The Mayor called for a vote on the question. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion
carried.
AN APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE was introduced and passed entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
making an appropriation for the payment of certain claims." (payroll - $95,231.65)
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to adopt the
ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber
(4). Nays: (0). The Mayor approved the appropriation ordinance and it is numbered A-1626.
COMMISSIONER LOSIK made a statement that this is one of the things the Commission
does which is just going through the motions, and asked the City Attorney to prepare a
procedure for the elimination of this step. He wants to continue to receive the detailed
explanation sheet, as he has in the past.
COMMISSION AGENDA
"DISCUSS AND RECONSIDER THE CITY OF SALINA'S POSITION ON S.B. 333, PUBLIC EMPLOYER -
PUBLIC EMPLOYEE RELATION LAW, AS REQUESTED IN LETTER DATED MARCH 7, 1972, FROM LOCAL # 782,
INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS." (Sponsored by Commissioner Losik)
Commissioner Losik said he would like the opinion of the members of this Commission,
as to whether the Commission should discuss and have a decision on this, this evening or
wait until all five Commissioners are present, because it is a very controversial thing
and he would like to have their opinion.
Mayor Weisgerber said he would like all five Commissioners present if we are
contemplating making any change; however, we do have a quorum.
Commissioner Caldwell said he would like to have a full Commission; however the
will of the Commission is certainly alright with him.
Commissioner Cooper said it could be discussed now, or it could be tabled until
next week, or whenever the entire Commission is here.
Commissioner Caldwell said we have a representation here of the groups that are
concerned, and it could be discussed, if the Commission so desires.
Commissioner Losik said, "Well I would like to say we want to make sure, if
we discuss it, that we are in agreement to discuss it, if not, we can discuss it when
there is a full Commission here. That is why I asked for the opinion of the other
Commission members. I am willing to go either way on it, whatever the will of the
Commission is."
A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik to
table this until all five Commissioners are present.
Commissioner Losik instructed the City Clerk to keep putting it on the agenda
so that the Commission will have it when a full Commission is present.
Commissioner Losik also stated there is one question we will need answered,
when we discuss it, and that is an official determination of what the status of a Fire
Lieutenant and a Fire Inspector are, from the standpoint of being classed as supervisory
or non -supervisory personnel, as related to Senate Bill 333. He said he would like to
have that determination when we do discuss it.
Mayor Weisgerber called for a vote on the question. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
ITEMS DISCUSSED WHICH WERE NOT ON THE AGENDA
COMMISSIONER LOSIK asked to interrupt the scheduled procedure to bring up an
item of general information. He said it was of a general nature, concerning an ordinance,
and directed his question to the City Manager and the City Attorney.
He asked, "Is there an ordinance that requires an individual calling the Police
Department on an inquiry, or to report something, to have to identify himself?"
The City Attorney explained that we don't have any ordinance that requires a
person to identify himself, however the Police Department logs every call that comes in and
it is a matter of policy that they ask who is calling. He also told about the number a
person may call at the Police Department to give information of a crime, etc. without
having to give his name.
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Commissioner Losik said he knows we are going to this 911 deal, but until we do,
he said he would like to see something put out through the news media, with their cooperatio
so the public will know what it can do; because he said, we are running into some difficulti
and by the same token, he said we are having many of our employees answer the phone who
are not identifying who they are, when they do answer. He said this is a two way street
and he wondered if we have any procedure such as that when we call for example, say the
City Clerk's Office or the City Engineer's Office, as to who answers the phone to know who
you are talking to. He asked again do we have anything like that?
The City Manager said we don't have any standard rules, necessarily for the
employee answering to identify himself. He said a number of years ago we encouraged the
departments to have their girls or men within the department to identify themselves to
the party if there was an inquiry or a call back involved. He said he would have to check
to see if the procedure is being followed today or not, but we have had a very minimum
problem, to my knowledge, of persons failing to identify themselves, if they are asked.
He said the Police Department encourages a person to give their name, because it is not
uncommon, in police work, for calls to come in and a person refuses or wishes not to give
their name, for becoming involved or something like this, and this is a very difficult area.
Sometimes you cannot determine the validity of the calls and you make several attempts to
find out what is going on. I don't know what particular call you might have reference to.
Commissioner Losik said this is a pretty common practice, but what he said he is
trying to bring out here, is to state that there is no ordinance, so therefore any
department cannot say therefore please give your name and so forth. On the other hand,
he said he thinks it is common courtesy, when you call an office, that people identify
themselves, so he said this is what he is trying to do now, on this other deal, until we
go into this 911. He said he wishes we could just publicize this and get the information
to the public. He said he thinks it would be a real good item for them to be made aware of.
The City Manager explained that the 911 system will not require anything
additional as far as giving or not giving a name.
Commissioner Losik said he is talking about the number that Larry referred to
about the number they could call without giving any information.
The City Attorney said he thought they should check with the Police Department
on this.
Commissioner Losik said he wants the staff to check that out, Mr. Bengtson, and
clarify it, because if there is that much confusion here, you can imagine what is going
on in town. He added that this, now, has brought out a point and we would like to get it
clarified.
Brian Rozelle said two or three years ago KSAL put out cards, and he said he is
not sure who instigated this, but it was with the Police Department cooperation, and these
cards that were passed out said you could call the regular Police Department emergency
number and you would not be required to give any other information, other than what you
were calling for.
The City Manager said it was a KSAL program at that time, but he said he doesn't
know if it is working now or not.
Mr. Rozelle said they haven't used it for quite some time.
Commissioner Losik said, "Well, Mr. Mayor, my point has been brought out today,
there is confusion, as I said, let's get it squared away so everybody is aware of it and
I think they'll all be happier."
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COMMISSIONER COOPER asked if she could bring up some items before the meeting
proceeded with its regular business.
Commissioner Cooper said her first item actually concerns only the Commission,
and she said she doesn't expect a decision on it this evening, but she wants the Commission
to think about it.
She said last week we placed an ordinance on first reading which dealt with the
traffic flow in the 100 block of East Ash and the 100 block of West Ash. She said she
thinks her views on this have probably been given to Engineering, and they are presently
working on it and will come up with some kind of a recommendation for this Commission.
She said, in the mean time, she would like to give the Commission a few little seeds for
thought on this. She said when we placed this ordinance on first reading last week, she
thinks they were mainly thinking of traffic flow, and because parking is at a premium in
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the downtown area, she said she can't help but
feel that they must, in some way, be making
wanted the Commission to know some of the thoughts she had on her mind at the time.
some kind of mistake, or doing it wrong, where
we permit parking on the north side, where
it isn't necessarily as useful, and deny it on
the south side where it is of more benefit
in the City, such as curb, gutter, water lines, etc. At that time she said she emphasized
to pedestrians, and everyone, as soon as they
get out of their vehicle, automatically
becomes a pedestrian. She said she would like
for the Commission, while Engineering is
the area, and she said she also drove by there Sunday, and there is no indication whatsoever
trying to come up with some kind of solution to
this problem, to give some thought to the
fact that we will have to consider, before we
proceed with the second reading on this,
The City Engineer said he doesn't know exactly which day they can expect it, but
that we should certainly consider the fact that
there are other factors involved besides
just traffic flow. She said there is a matter
of convenience, there is a matter tiiat
start with the sewer line.
parking is at a premium in the core area, and
she added that they could be making a mistake
in eliminating the parking spaces. She said she
didn't expect any decision on it, but
would like the Commission to be thinking about
it while Engineering is trying to figure
out some solution to the problem.
Mayor Weisgerber asked how many parking spaces are involved between Santa Fe
and Fifth Street, on East Ash.
The City Engineer said there are 7 in the 100 block of East Ash.
The City Engineer said, no, that he is saying he didn't have it when he started.
He started almost 2 weeks ahead of his water pipe delivery.
Commissioner Cooper said but at the present time, he still doesn't have it?
The City Engineer said he had some pipe on hand, but he didn't have enough for
all of it. He said he thinks the contractor borrowed enough to go ahead and do the project
with the sewer line.
Commissioner Cooper said she is still not certain she understands. She said,
in other words, the contractor that is laying the water line out on Stimmel Road, as of this
time, does not have the water pipe.
The City Engineer said he believes this is true.
Commissioner Cooper asked if he had any idea when he might expect it? She added,
"In other words, like I am saying, you know the situation out there on Stimmel Road, the
people are carrying water."
The City Engineer said the contractor may have it by now, he was expecting it
about any time.
Commissioner Cooper asked, once he gets the water pipe, when do you think he
will start that job?
The City Engineer explained again, that the contractor was expecting delivery
of the water pipe just any time.
Commissioner Cooper said she was surprised to hear there hadn't been any activity
out there at all, and she added that at the time the contract was let, the Commission
emphasised that there was a health factor involved, and they should do it as soon as
possible.
Commissioner Cooper said she had visited with the City Manager's Office and she
wanted the Commission to know some of the thoughts she had on her mind at the time.
COMMISSIONER COOPER said the second thing she wanted to mention had to do with
the fact that earlier this year, the Commission approved a package of special improvements
in the City, such as curb, gutter, water lines, etc. At that time she said she emphasized
that the water line out on Stimmel Road was a health problem, and we wanted the contractor
to do it as soon as weather permitted. She said she had a call from a party who lives in
the area, and she said she also drove by there Sunday, and there is no indication whatsoever
at this time, that the City is going to lay that water line out there. She said her question'
is, why wasn't the contractor notified, and when can the people expect a water line?
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The City Engineer said he doesn't know exactly which day they can expect it, but
the reason they didn't start there was because the contractor received delivery on his
sewer pipe quite a bit ahead of the delivery of the water line, so they did go ahead and
start with the sewer line.
Commissioner Cooper said, you mean the contractor doesn't have the pipe? Is that
what you are saying?
The City Engineer said, no, that he is saying he didn't have it when he started.
He started almost 2 weeks ahead of his water pipe delivery.
Commissioner Cooper said but at the present time, he still doesn't have it?
The City Engineer said he had some pipe on hand, but he didn't have enough for
all of it. He said he thinks the contractor borrowed enough to go ahead and do the project
with the sewer line.
Commissioner Cooper said she is still not certain she understands. She said,
in other words, the contractor that is laying the water line out on Stimmel Road, as of this
time, does not have the water pipe.
The City Engineer said he believes this is true.
Commissioner Cooper asked if he had any idea when he might expect it? She added,
"In other words, like I am saying, you know the situation out there on Stimmel Road, the
people are carrying water."
The City Engineer said the contractor may have it by now, he was expecting it
about any time.
Commissioner Cooper asked, once he gets the water pipe, when do you think he
will start that job?
The City Engineer explained again, that the contractor was expecting delivery
of the water pipe just any time.
Commissioner Cooper said she was surprised to hear there hadn't been any activity
out there at all, and she added that at the time the contract was let, the Commission
emphasised that there was a health factor involved, and they should do it as soon as
possible.
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COMMISSIONER COOPER said the other item has to do with a piece of property that
the City owns, west of the by-pass and south of the church out there, which is presently
being used as a play area by the youngsters in the neighborhood. She said that the people
in the neighborhood know that this is City property, but some of the City personnel, in
the way of policemen, do not know it is City property. She said they are under the
impression that it is church property, so consequently there is a little bit of conflict.
She said the children get over there playing on City property, they are using it to ride
mini -bikes at the present time, and the police patrolman comes by and asks them to leave.
She said she mentioned something about this to the City Manager earlier, and asked him to
explain why this thing can't be cleared up?
The City Manager said that in visiting with her previously, he told her that he
personally would have no objections; but that he would check with the Police Department
and the City Attorney, as to the legality of it, as well as from the liability aspect.
Mr. Olson continued that staff is in no position to say that this park should be used for
this, or that one used for something else; but as far as the neighborhood deal is concerned,
he said he had no personal objection to it being used as such, so long as there were not
conflicting uses, and as long as the City did not incur any liabilities. He said he
understood a youngster was injured in a mini -bike accident. He added that the City Attorney
opinion is that if you permit or prohibit activities of this type in that particular park,
you should probably be prepared to receive similar requests for such use in other parks.
If you want to establish this as a precedent or not, if you wish to, by resolution or by
some notification to staff, to permit such activities in the park with or without a permit
of liability release, this certainly would be your preogative. We will administer whatever
plan or program you wish to initiate.
Commissioner Cooper said she thinks what might be giving us some of the problem
is that just because this is city property, doesn't necessarily constitute a park. The
definition might have some bearing on this. She said she thinks there are several areas
of property that the City legally holds title to, that wouldn't necessarily constitute a
park and it wouldn't serve the most useful purpose if it were designated as such.
Commissioner Cooper went on to say that the big conflict at the present is the fact that
they are encountering misunderstandings with the Police Department, because the people
out there believe this property is City property and she said it is her understanding that
it is City property, and yet some of the Police Officers are insisting that it belongs to
the church. She said she wants to get that cleared up right off.
The City Manager said this strip of land is shown on the map as a piece of
City owned property. It was left over when that particular area was platted, and it
apparently didn't work out right for lots and blocks. The City also has several pieces
of irregular shaped property because of highway construction and the like. They are
indicated on the map as park site 1, or City park property # 2, and this is one of the
situations that exist in that particular location.
The City Manager continued by saying that he knew the children in the area have
played softball out there for years, or as long as he has been in Salina. He said that as
far as we are concerned, we should get direction from you five people as to the use of it,
as to a permit, or whatever regulations you wish to impose.
Commissioner Caldwell said he is involved in Scouting, and one of his boys live
right on the same block as the play area. He said as he drove by there yesterday, quite
by accident, and they recognised him and stopped him and asked him if they could play
there. They said one of these Commissioners had given them permission to play in that
area and to ride their scooters. Of course, the officer was there, and they had their
ups and downs. He said he told them he didn't know anything about the problem, but he
said he thought the officer was going on the premise that if you are going to play ball,
it is rather hard to be riding scooters around there, because an accident could occur.
He said he has seen little amphibious cars out there. He again stated it was just an
accident that he was by there, but he told the lady that he would look into it, and he
said he did ask the City Manager about it today. He said what the officer was trying to
tell these people, trying to tell the parents anyway, was that you cannot have motor
scooters around the kids playing a ball game because accidents happen.
Mrs. Frank Baker said she had several questions to ask. First, where did the
City Manager get his information that a child was hurt?
Mr. Harrison asked to answer that question. He said he received a call at his
home, Sunday Afternoon, about 4:30 from Mrs. Max Morgan, and she said a child had been
hurt.
Mrs. Baker asked Mrs. Morgan if she had called Mr. Harrison and said a child had
been hurt?
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Mrs. Morgan said no, she didn't say a child had been hurt; she said we had a
conflict because a policeman was there.
Mr. Harrison said he guessed he misundersood her.
Mrs. Baker retorted, "Yes, you certainly did, didn't you." She then asked
Commissioner Caldwell if he saw anyone playing ball, or any evidence of a ball or bat.
Commissioner Caldwell said no.
Mrs. Baker said, "No, you didn't! Because baseball isn't in right now, mini -bikes'
are in and our children want a safe place to ride their mini -bikes, when they play baseball
they play baseball together, when they ride mini -bikes, they ride them with consideration,
as far as this being church property, yes sir, I have three women here that will speak,
the officer certainly informed us we were on church property, and we were not. Church
property is across the road and well posted, and the conflict started because they said
you have a letter at the Police Department, from the minister which states that' do not
want the children on church property, and the children are not on church property, and if
the police can't designate between. If you tell us we must get off because it is city
property, sir, we will do so; but if the City puts these children back out in the street
on bicycles again, I think you are lacking. They are not hurting anything, they are not
bothering anyone. No one in the neighborhood has the slightest objection to these
children being there. Since they have wanted them off the church property, they are off
the church property. Now we are asking if you are going to kick us off the City property,
and don't call it a park, if you want to call it a park, then we want park benches, we
want swing sets, and this doesn't happen to be what the children want to play with. They
want to go over there and ride their scooters at a slow, safe speed, and they want to be
where they can play with equipment which is bought by adults, which is sold by adults,
and called, we are told, a toy because you won't let them on the city streets, thank
heavens. Now, if they can't be ridden on the city streets where are they going to be
ridden? Adults are the ones who put these forward to the children to have as toys and
I don't like the misconception where people think Children are being injured. The Lord
knows, not too many years ago, we lost a little boy on a bicycle in our neighborhood in
the streets. He fell, and he is gone, and these children are not in any danger any more
in that block riding those motor cycles than they would be in that street. And as for my
children, they wear hard hats, and they are a lot safer than they would be out in the
city streets with these young adults that have a very good second gear that speed down
Osage until your blood just wants to curdle."
Mayor Weisgerber asked the City Attorney if the City assumes liability for an
injury, the way an individual does when he has a vacant lot where children play, and one
gets hurt?
The City Attorney explained that the City has two functions. Governmental
functions and proprietary functions, and thse that are considered governmental, the City
has governmental immunity. He said the operation of a park, or Police Department or
Fire Department are still governmental functions and we do have governmental immunity;
however if a serious accident should occur in the park, that we knowingly allow mini -bikes
to be ridden, we are probably going to get sued, and we may be able to successfully defend
it or we may not. He said, however, we may be liable, as to knowingly have permitted this.
The people are inexperienced, do not have a drivers license, and this is why we don't
allow them on the street; because State Law says if you are going to operate any type
vehicle on the street, you have to have a drivers license and you have to be 16 years of
age. When the drag strippers wanted to use the old municipal airport, this is City
property, we realized the possibility of liability on behalf of the City and do require
the people that use it to sign releases of liability, releasing the City of liability,
hoping we can avoid law suits in that respect; but here a child is not capable of signing
a release because he is not of legal age, they can't sign a valid release. Possibly
they could get parents to do this. Now, whether you want to allow city property to be used
for mini -bikes, this is a matter of policy, as Mr. Olson said. You as a Commissioner may
allow it as a matter of policy, and certainly, as a matter of policy, you can prohibit it too.
Mayor Weisgerber asked about the City possibly having general liability insurance
to cover the City acts.
The City Attorney explained that until about four
or five years ago,
the
City
could not buy any type of liability
governmental function, for which it
insurance to protect itself from liability,
was not liable anyhow. The theory was that
for
if
a
a police
car went out here and hit somebody,
it is a governmental function,
and you are
not
liable,
so why waste the tax payer's money.
He said he thought the
legislature felt that
many
innocent people were getting hurt
and they weren't able to
collect; so the law
did
allow
cities, at that point, to take out liability insurance for vehicles, if it wished, and
by so doing, the City waived its governmental immunity up to the amount of the policy,
and anything above that you went on grounds of governmental immunity. The City Attorney
continued to explain that we can buy insurance to protect ourselves from liability where
it is a governmental function like the Water Department, Sewerage Department, things
where we charge a fee. We are in business and we are operating in a proprietary manner
and there we are covered by liability insurance. He said there.was a law before the last
legislature, which he believed passed, which would authorize the city to insure itself
and secure liability insurance on its officers and employees, even when they are operating
in a governmental capacity; and if this is the case, of course, once we acquire it, we
waive our governmental immunity, and normally this is the purpose of it. The legislature
provided if tax payers money is used for the protection, then we ought to waive immunity
up to the amount of the insurance. He said he does believe the last legislature did
authorize cities to take out liability insurance on practically anything, like the general
liability bond on all operations.
Commissioner Cooper said she still doesn't understand where we stand. What she
wants to know is can we get the work as far as these people in the area are concerned,
so that people in the neighborhood will have the right to play in the area, then possibly
this Commission will have to decide what is the permissible type of play activity. She
also asked if the area could be posted, that they do this at their own risk?
The City Manager said, from what the lady said, we have an officer who doesn't
know where the boundary of the church property is, and we will resolve this.
Mrs. Baker said they are more than willing to accept the liability. She said
they have had the nicest neighborhood you could ask for, because the children have had
an interest. She said she is very concerned about the type of impression the adults are
putting forth, because they came before a Commissioner and asked for a ruling on this
and she said they thought they got one. They told the children it was alright, go ahead,
and the next thing you know, she said we are showing them we don't know a thing we are
talking about and that nobody seems to be able to get anything straight.
Mayor Weisgerber said he doesn't feel any formal action should be taken tonight.
He said he would like to see some specific recommendation made and put on the agenda for
next week. He said he gathered from these people, that it is alright to let the kids go
ahead and play at least in the mean time, and asked if this is correct?
Commissioner Cooper said it wasn't an agenda item, but she said she had visited
about this problem with the City Manager and asked him to instruct the Police Department,
and this is the reason it is coming around again.
Mayor Weisgerber said that what he is saying is he would rather not take any
formal action on it tonight. He wishes for it to be put on the agenda for formal action
next week.
Commissioner Cooper replied that the kids have been playing there for two years,
and she doesn't think we are going to encounter any great big major obsticles in the next
two weeks, so she would like for the City employees to know that, as far as the City is
concerned that there are not any major objections, as of this time, and maybe the City
Commission will establish a policy that they can or cannot ride mini -bikes in that park
area. She said she didn't know, but if this is something the Commission wants to review,
fine, but in the mean time, if they want to continue doing what they have been doing,
and the neighborhood has no objections, then she said she doesn't know why we should.
Mr. Max Morton said his back yard runs on the perimeter of this field. He said
they have a tether ball and a basketball goal out there for the neighborhood, and a lot
of times the children are playing with all three things at the same time, and there is
no conflict, because the people on the mini -bikes just move over a little, and it is a
well coordinated group and there is always adult supervision.
Mayor Weisgerber said the main point of confusion is between City property and
church property. He asked if they abut each other.
Mr. Morton said no, there is a street between them. The church property is on
the west side of the street, and the City property is on the east side of the street.
He added that the church lies on the north side of this property, but nobody goes over on
the church property, or even comes close to it, so therefore it couldn't be a noise
situation. He said if there should be any complaint, it should be him, because it is
within 50 feet of his bedroom, and he said he has no' complaint.
Mayor Weisgerber said he thought someone at the church filed a complaint about
it.
Mayor Weisgerber said that it might happen to enter into it. There are a lot of
policemen on the force and each one is different.
Commissioner Losik said he would like to say something. He said he thought he
had been pretty quiet about this. He said he knew there were things in the mill on this,
and he had received calls on this. He said he knew action was being taken, and he wanted
to start out by saying that he is very familiar with that area, because he lives there, so
therefore this is perhaps the reason he held back a little, but in that particular area,
for some unknown reason, recently they have had an awful lot of police protection. But
on the other hand, he said he is curious as to why we are having this type of information
being transmitted. If we go out there and we are really enforcing the law, then we turn
right around and we are not enforcing the law. He said we have had complaints before.
Bob mentioned about those amphibious vehicles. He said he might add he had a little bit
of a deal on that too! He said his daughter was riding one of them and a cop came up to
his yard and informed him that she wasn't supposed to ride there. He said had he not been
a Commissioner he would have made quite an issue of that thing himself, but he said he
let it go. He said on the other hand he thinks we have lost sight of what we are supposed
to be patroling, and what we are supposed to be doing. He said he would like to see some
equitable application of our law enforcement. This is a classic example of it, of a
policeman, either not knowing what they are supposed to do, or they are over exercising
their authority. He said he didn't know which. He said the one lot that the church has
asked about is being respected, the way they asked for it to be. He added that he didn't
think there is any question where the church property ends or abuts onto this particular
lot that we are talking about, because you can tell the difference in the way the grass
is cut. The City did cut the grass! He said that what he is saying is not to criticize
but here again, he said he thinks we need a lot better communication between City Hall,
and that is all of us, and the general public who pays to have this town run the way we
should be running it for them. He said the Commission has not decided anything here
tonight, and he hoped that the people can leave tonight knowing that we will be doing
something and that we will have an answer for them, possibly next week, in the mean time
they can sort of control it.
The City Attorney asked if it is the will of the Commission that the Police
Department be advised that they are authorized to ride their mini -bikes during this next
week?
Commissioner Losik said they should hold it up for a week.
The City Manager asked, then they shall not ride for a week?
Commissioner Losik said they can park them for a week and we'll come up with a
decision.
Mayor Weisgerber said they may go ahead and play, but to hold the mini -bikes.
The City Attorney said he wanted to make sure, so the Police Department is not
confused, so we don't have another incident.
Commissioner Losik said you see this is what hinges back to the deal about the
calls. You see how much confusion we can come up with just because of the lack of
communication.
Commissioner Cooper said well, what is our conflict? They have been riding them
out at the airport for a couple of years, why can't they ride them out there, are we
subject to liability now, when we were .not in the past?
Commissioner Losik explained that it has to do with the law enforcement.
The City Attorney said that if you tell them they can go ahead and continue to
ride, you probably ought to advise the Police Department that if they see someone riding
in Kenwood or Sunset not to tell them not to. You are going to have to treat everybody
alike.
Mr. Morton said they consider the church on Sunday and so forth, and
they don't
even
go close when they are having their services or anything. He said it is
a matter of
can
we ride the bike on City property?
Mrs. Baker said the church did make a complaint, but not against the
field they
are
riding on. She explained that the small children dug a whopping big hole
in there,
and
they can't mow now, but that they are going to fix it, and this is posted
with signs
big
enough for any law officer to see, with three black signs with fluorescent
red letters.
She
said they did file a complaint and asked us to stay off there, and she said
they have,
but
it has nothing to do with where they are riding.
Mayor Weisgerber said that it might happen to enter into it. There are a lot of
policemen on the force and each one is different.
Commissioner Losik said he would like to say something. He said he thought he
had been pretty quiet about this. He said he knew there were things in the mill on this,
and he had received calls on this. He said he knew action was being taken, and he wanted
to start out by saying that he is very familiar with that area, because he lives there, so
therefore this is perhaps the reason he held back a little, but in that particular area,
for some unknown reason, recently they have had an awful lot of police protection. But
on the other hand, he said he is curious as to why we are having this type of information
being transmitted. If we go out there and we are really enforcing the law, then we turn
right around and we are not enforcing the law. He said we have had complaints before.
Bob mentioned about those amphibious vehicles. He said he might add he had a little bit
of a deal on that too! He said his daughter was riding one of them and a cop came up to
his yard and informed him that she wasn't supposed to ride there. He said had he not been
a Commissioner he would have made quite an issue of that thing himself, but he said he
let it go. He said on the other hand he thinks we have lost sight of what we are supposed
to be patroling, and what we are supposed to be doing. He said he would like to see some
equitable application of our law enforcement. This is a classic example of it, of a
policeman, either not knowing what they are supposed to do, or they are over exercising
their authority. He said he didn't know which. He said the one lot that the church has
asked about is being respected, the way they asked for it to be. He added that he didn't
think there is any question where the church property ends or abuts onto this particular
lot that we are talking about, because you can tell the difference in the way the grass
is cut. The City did cut the grass! He said that what he is saying is not to criticize
but here again, he said he thinks we need a lot better communication between City Hall,
and that is all of us, and the general public who pays to have this town run the way we
should be running it for them. He said the Commission has not decided anything here
tonight, and he hoped that the people can leave tonight knowing that we will be doing
something and that we will have an answer for them, possibly next week, in the mean time
they can sort of control it.
The City Attorney asked if it is the will of the Commission that the Police
Department be advised that they are authorized to ride their mini -bikes during this next
week?
Commissioner Losik said they should hold it up for a week.
The City Manager asked, then they shall not ride for a week?
Commissioner Losik said they can park them for a week and we'll come up with a
decision.
Mayor Weisgerber said they may go ahead and play, but to hold the mini -bikes.
The City Attorney said he wanted to make sure, so the Police Department is not
confused, so we don't have another incident.
Commissioner Losik said you see this is what hinges back to the deal about the
calls. You see how much confusion we can come up with just because of the lack of
communication.
Commissioner Cooper said well, what is our conflict? They have been riding them
out at the airport for a couple of years, why can't they ride them out there, are we
subject to liability now, when we were .not in the past?
Commissioner Losik explained that it has to do with the law enforcement.
The City Attorney said that if you tell them they can go ahead and continue to
ride, you probably ought to advise the Police Department that if they see someone riding
in Kenwood or Sunset not to tell them not to. You are going to have to treat everybody
alike.
11
Commissioner Losik said this is just a parcel of city property, it hasn't been
designated as a park, nor does it come under the ordinance of the park, which prohibits
this type thing in the park. This is where all this conflict is coming in. We are trying
to make an application of the rules pertaining to a park, that is designated as a park,
to city owned property. That is no more a park than this building is, and this is where
we are running into this conflict.
Commissioner Caldwell said he knows he is going to get kick -back on this, but
if a child is not permitted to drive a car or a scooter, it must go beyond that. He is
probably too young to have a motor scooter, otherwise he would be permitted to ride in
the street. He said he knows what a child will do, they don't walk them across the
street, they ride them. He asked if we are going to permit him to disobey the rules?
To say that someone is right and someone else is wrong, it that what we are going to tell
him?
Commissioner Losik said one of the problems is that a lot of these vehicles are
actually built as off-road use vehicles, and cannot be licensed or operated on the street.
This is where the bug -a -boo comes in on it. They must be ridden in the lots off the road.
Commissioner Caldwell said he is just saying what a kid will do with his bike.
He said there is always more than one side to a story.
Mrs. Baker said if the police officer catches a child riding a motor cycle across
the street, they should very definitely be stopped, ticketed and fined. She said they
have already taken that into consideration, and they push them. She said it really isn't
a factor in this problem because they have been paying particular attention to that.
PUBLIC AGENDA
AN APPLICATION for Surety on Bail bonds was filed by Erick V. Kindlesparger,
agent for B & K Bonding, 651 South Ohio Street. (New) A motion was made by Commissioner
Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik to approve the application and authorize the
City Clerk to issue the license. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
AN APPLICATION for Surety on Bail bonds was filed by Steve M. Klingzell, agent
for B & K Bonding, 651 South Ohio, (New) A motion was made by Commissioner Losik,
seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to approve the application and authorize the City Clerk
to issue the license. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3244 was filed by Mr. F. E. Baringer, for the protest of the
rezoning of Lots 15, 16, 17, Block 6, Rolling Hills Addition to the City of Salina, Kansas.
for apartments.
Mr. Baringer said he has a lot of money invested in this area and he doesn't
want it rezoned. He noted Ordinance Number 6808, which was passed in 1964, returned
this property in Rolling Hills Addition to District "A".
A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Cooper to
refer the petition to the Salina City Planning Commission. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3245 was filed by Philip R. Martin, 1730 East Crawford, for the
rezoning of a tract of land 600' x 1320' in the North z of 19-14-2 from District "C"
(Apartment District to District "D" (Local Business District). A motion was made by
Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to refer the petition to the Salina
City Planning Commission. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik that
the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners adjourn. Ayes: (4). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
r
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk