03-13-1972 Minutess
City of Salina, Kansas
Commissioners' Meeting
March 13, 1972
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commissioners'
Room, City -County Building, on Monday, March 13, 1972, at four o'clock p.m.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and
a Moment of Silent Prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Robert C. Caldwell, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Leon L. Ashton
Commissioner Norma G. Cooper
Commissioner Mike Losik, Jr.
Commissioner Jack Weisgerber
comprising a quorum of the board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of March 6, 1972, were approved as mailed.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the week of March 19 through 25, 1972 as "POISON PREVENTION
WEEK IN THIS CITY". The proclamation was read by Miss Mooney, a Professional Nurse at
St. John's Hospital. (They will be distributing brochures, and there will be advertisement
in the hospital. St. John's Hospital has a poison control center, and anyone may call for
information.)
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the week of March 19 through 25, 1972 as "CERTIFIED
ENGINEERING TECHNICIAN WEEK". The proclamation was read by John Wakulich, a Kansas
Technical Institute student. (This is in conjunction with their State Convention)
THE MAYOR also noted that this is "NATIONAL GIRL SCOUT WEEK" and "DEMOLAY WEEK".
STAFF AGENDA
BIDS WERE RECEIVED FOR ENGINEERING PROJECT 71-542 for the improvement of
miscellaneous streets.
Smoky Hill, Inc., Salina, Kansas $104,704.00
Abbott Construction Company, Salina, Ks. 108,188.00
Stevens Contractors, Inc., Salina, Kansas 110,531.15
Engineer's Estimate 113,906.00
A Motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Ashton to accept the
bid of the Smoky Hill, Inc., for $104,704.00, providing it meets the Engineer's
specifications, and to introduce the contract ordinance for first reading. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed: f'Aw-, ,,, Zo Number: %NQS
THE CITY ENGINEER REPORTED ON PETITION NUMBER 3231, which was filed by
Verner C. and Pearl E. Smith for the vacation of an easement in Block 2 of the Replat of
Bonnie Ridge Addition.
The City Engineer reported that the city has no utilities in the easement. He
said the Engineering Department contacted Southwestern Bell, Salina Cable TV and KP & L,
and they have no objections to the vacation of this easement. Kansas Power and Light
Company has one pole, which they have agreed to move. The City Engineer recommended the
approval of this petition.
A motion was made by Commissioner Ashton, seconded by Commissioner Losik to
accept the City Engineer's report and grant the easement be reclaimed by the property
owners, and to introduce an ordinance for the vacation of the easement for first reading.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed: 1rA"el 2,0 (91SL Number: YIq(
THE CITY ENGINEER filed the specifications for the demolition of thirty-four
structures. (Engineering Project 72-546) and suggested the date of March 27, 1972 to
receive bids. He reported that all the property owners were legally notified.
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to
accept the date of March 27, 1972, as the date to receive bids for the demolition of the
structures, and instruct the City Clerk to advertise for bids. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
A LETTER was received from the BUILDING CODE ADVISORY BOARD, recommending the
adoption of the 1971 Edition of the National Electrical Code, and the deletion of
Sections 9-182, 9-183, 9-185, 9-186, 9-187, 9-188, a part of 9-181, and all of Sections
9-181 (1), 9-181 (2), 9-181 (3), and 9-181 (4) of The Salina Code.
Mr. Bill Stokes, Attorney, and a member of the Electrical Code Panel, stated
that several members of the panel are present and would like to speak on this code change.
Mr. Glenn Merriman, of Merriman and Hoeffner Electric, pointed out that an
amendment in the electrical code, according to the city ordinances, should be through the
Electrical Code Panel and the members of this panel were not notified of this until after
it had already been sent to the City Commission. He said he would like clarification on
how it got to that panel instead of the Code Panel.
Mr. Jim Morrow stated the Electrical Code Panel was organized or established
for grievances, hardships or any amendments to the Electrical Code. He stated that the
1971 Edition of the National Electrical Code is made to be an advisory document. It is
considered in most places to be minimum requirements. He also stated the Electrical Code
Panel was not advised until last Friday night of the changes, as recommended by the Building.
Code Advisory Board.
Mr. Virg Lundberg, Chairman of the Electrical Code Panel mentioned that all
codes should be brought up to date and that the adoption of the 1971 Edition of the National'.
Electrical Code should have been done three or four months ago. The National Electrical
Code is the absolute minimum standards. The Salina Code has more rigid standards, which
we feel should remain in The Salina Code.
Mr. Lundberg referred to the section of the code which is deleting the use of
conduit. This would strictly involve the use of romex wire, which, in the future, would
have some effect on our fire insurance.
Mr. Lundberg said you have an existing Electrical Code Panel here and we think
this highly technical question was voted on without due consideration by the advisors who
sent you the letter. We beg you to refer at least the code portion of the changes
recommended in The Salina Code back to some knowledgeable group so that the problems can
be straightened up.
Commissioner Losik moved, in view of what has been discussed here, I would
recommend this be returned to the Building Code Advisory Board to be coordinated with the
Electrical Code Panel, as was rightfully set up, and then be resubmitted after they have
discussed it and arrived at another recommendation. The motion was seconded by Commissioner
Ashton. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Commissioner Cooper stated that she read all the sections of the code that were
to be deleted, but did not have a copy of the 1971 Edition of the National Electrical Code
to compare with the 1968 Code, which she read. She said she thought it would be helpful
if we knew what kind of differences they are suggesting.
Mr. Jim Morrow presented Mrs. Cooper with a copy of the 1971 Edition of the
National Electrical Code.
Mr. Kline Whitaker, Electrical Inspector, stated that we would like to see the
Commission adopt the 1971 Edition of the National Electrical Code today, leaving the
amendments to the Salina Code for these two boards to consider and make a recommendation
on later.
Mr. Jim Morrow said he thought the 1971 Edition of the National Electrical Code
should be adopted today, and the Salina Code could be changed later. He suggested the
Commission amend the ordinance to say "the city will automatically adopt the latest edition
of the National Electrical Code."
Commissioner Losik then stated that we have done what these gentlemen have asked
us to do and referred it back for coordination. Why don't we do just that and let them
come back with their recommendations. They asked us to do this and I would think this
would settle it now until they resolve their problems and bring it back.
The City Attorney stated that the Commission would have to adopt each Edition
of the National Electrical Code as it becomes available every three years.
Commissioner Losik said he can't see giving a rubber stamp approval for anything.
He said he believes we should leave the motion as it carried; let them resolve it and bring
it back to the Commission for a decision. Another couple of weeks isn't going to make or
break us if it has been two or three months in the mill already.
Commissioner Weisgerber asked why the 1971 Edition of the National Electrical
Code had to be adopted now.
Mr. Whitaker stated the '71 code is quite extensively improved, as compared to
the '68 code. There are 6 new sections in it now, that were not covered in the 168 code.
Mr. Morrow again.stated that the Commission should adopt the 171 Edition of the
National Electrical Code and that the sections to be deleted from The Salina Code be left
until the boards get together.
Mr. Larry Gagnon and Mr. John Wickersham stated that the 171 Edition of the
code should be adopted.
Commissioner Losik said we are right back where we were. He said he is not an
electrician; and we have given these people what they asked for today. Now this haste
that we're running through in adopting the '71 code all of a sudden; it has been in effect,
and all of a sudden it has to be done today. If these gentlemen wanted an extra two weeks
or a month to do it, how fast it's done is up to them, and he thinks we have already
granted enough time to do it, so this discussion could continue all night and we are still
right back where we were. He said he would like to repeat the fact that we have done this,
and let these gentlemen get back to coordinating the changes they anticipate and resubmit
it, and the earlier the better.
THE CITY PLANNER filed Plans and Specifications for the improvement of Lakewood
Park. (Engineering Project 72-544 and 72-544A)
The City Planner presented the plans and specifications to the City Commissioners
and explained the changes which have been made from the preliminary plan, and suggested
the date of April 3, 1972 to receive bids for the improvement of Lakewood Park. (The
project was started in 1970)
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Ashton to
accept the City Planner's Plans and Specifications, as filed, and set April 3, 1972 as
the date to receive bids for the improvement of Lakewood Park, and instruct the City Clerk
to advertise for bids. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
It was pointed out to the Commissioners that Phase I would deplete the available
local funds. Before BOR will approve any future funding for park improvements the City
will have to have its share available and these would have to come from General Obligation
Bonds.
COMMISSION AGENDA
"CONSIDER A POLICY FOR ANY CHANGE OR CORRECTION IN COMMISSION MEETING RECORDS."
(sponsored by Commissioner Cooper)
Commissioner Cooper said this is under the area of old business. A short time
back when the Commission was approving copies of the minutes that had been mailed to them
at one of the regular meetings, she asked the City Clerk to add a comment to the minutes.
She said, "I think I was wrong, regardless of my intent, which was one of clarification.
I asked him to add something that I didn't actually say and I have a feeling the minutes
of the Commission meetings are supposed to reflect what we do or what we say, nothing more
or nothing less." She said we can make corrections if there is necessity for it; but she
doesn't believe we can ask to have something added that was not said at that particular
time. She added that the Commission approved a deletion at the same time. She said we
expect the minutes to reflect what happened at the meeting. Again she said she doesn't
think you can add to or take from the minutes; they have to reflect, or show, what was
said or what action was taken and this is something the Commission should decide what they
want to do. She suggested the Commission decide now whether, in the future, it will
continue this kind of practice. She said she happens to think it was a poor one.
Commissioner Losik said he thought he knew what Mrs. Cooper is referring to.
I
Commissioner Cooper said this was a couple of weeks ago when the Commission was
discussing the approval of the minutes, and she asked Don Harrison to add a comment to
the discussion of Senate Bill 333. She asked to add a remark that was not actually made
j at that time in the meeting. She said she thought she was wrong in asking that.
Commissioner Losik said it is his understanding that what we say here at the
meeting becomes matter of public record and it cannot be deleted at a later time. If we
said something, or intended to say it, we can't have it added in at a later time; it is
just a matter of getting back to following parlimentary procedure and getting it recorded
properly. If you said something it has to remain a matter of record, if you didn't say it,
you can't say I wish I had said it and add it later.
Commissioner Weisgerber stated that he asked that a paragraph be deleted from
the minutes, because it was not clear and he thought this would be better than trying to
rewrite it because it didn't mean that much.
The Mayor asked Mrs. Cooper what suggestions she had.
Commissioner Cooper stated she did not know, except we needed to clarify how
to make amendments to the minutes.
Mayor Caldwell asked her if she was suggesting the minutes be taped.
Commissioner Cooper stated she was not suggesting this, she only, again, stated
that if you make any comments, they should be left in the minutes, and nothing should be
added to the minutes at a later date, if it was not said.
Commissioner Losik asked if copies of the minutes are available to the public?
Mayor Caldwell replied, "Yes".
"COMMISSION TO SUGGEST A TIME FOR 'SPECIAL MEETING' PURPOSE REVIEW OF DOG ORDINANCE."
j (Sponsored by Commissioner Cooper)
Commissioner Cooper stated that she thought the dog ordinance need reviewing.
She said she has had complaints about loose dogs.
Mayor Caldwell asked Mr. Baten Young if he had any comments at this time.
Mr. Young said he thought Mrs. Cooper had the right idea in asking that the
dog ordinance be reviewed.
Commissioner Losik thought an evening meeting would be better to review the
dog ordinance.
Commissioner Ashton stated he thought the people who drafted the original dog
ordinance should be made aware of the meeting, so they can be present.
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Ashton to
have a special meeting on March 20, 1972, at 7:30 P.M. to review the dog ordinance.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
MAYOR CALDWELL suggested that the Commissioners have a briefing session each
Monday at 3:00 P.M. and to have the staff available, for those who want to attend. I am
just suggesting that you come, but you are not obligated to come. I will ask that the
staff be present and the news media, if they want to. I am not advocating a return to the
closed -door, pre -commission meeting abolished several months ago. I feel there are things
we are not discussing, and information we are not getting at these open meetings, we're
getting nowhere fast. I can't see wasting time at these regular meetings in asking the
background on city business, when we should be well informed in a briefing session.
Commissioner Losik stated, "I
feel
it will end up just like it was before, with
the pre -commission meetings. I want to
go on
record for being against this type of meeting.
We have agreed that executive meetings can be
held for three reasons."
Mayor Caldwell said I am only
Commission Ashton agreed with
suggesting
Mayor
we have these meetings.
Caldwell on this.
5
Commissioner Weisgerber stated that with the news media present, what would it
hurt? I spend many hours a week talking to people. I feel a lot of this could be
eliminated if we had a meeting with the staff available.
Commissioner Cooper stated that she agreed we�could have discussed things like
the park improvement at a meeting other than the public meeting, but if we don't have
anything like this, why would we want to come every Monday at 3 o'clock?
Mayor Caldwell stated that we can come to discuss things with the staff.
Commissioner Ashton stated he is in 100% agreement. We're here to represent
the people and I feel this would be a better way of doing this.
Commissioner Cooper stated that anything on the agenda the staff things we need
information on, the Commission could be called.
Commissioner Weisgerber stated he has six or seven things to bring up, but he
needs more information on it, and if the staff is available at a meeting, he could ask
these questions at this meeting.
Commissioner Cooper suggested we call a special meeting for such discussions.
Commissioner Weisgerber stated he did not think this procedure would work.
When you're not reallysure how you want to do something, you need to be able to sit down
and talk it out, find out what the Commissioners and the staff are thinking. It's a way
of getting hazy ideas refined and brought down to a practical proposition.
Commissioner Losik stated that we have a procedure for these meetings, let's
leave it as it is.
Commissioner Ashton stated, "If you have all the answers you don't need to be
there."
Commissioner Losik said, "Your sarcasm is out of order, Mr. Ashton. The public
is informed the way we are doing. If you gentlemen want this, you can out vote us again.
If you want your briefing sessions, go ahead."
Mr. Bill Scholl asked if the meetings would be open to the public.
Commissioner Ashton said, "Yes, no decisions would be made back there anyway."
Commissioner Weisgerber stated if we are here for a show, this is not good
government, and our purpose is to give the City the very best government we can.
Commissioner Cooper stated if you are going to meet with the staff and the
news media, maybe we need to allow more time for staff out here at the public meeting.
Commissioner Ashton said any questions we have, we can ask the staff, so we
don't have to call the City Manager or staff through the week. I think this 3 o'clock
meeting is a good idea.
Commissioner Losik stated this is what we are doing now, but the problem is
we are not communicating with the public. More people will come to the meetings when
they know everything is out front.
The City Manager stated that he and his staff are available at any time to
discuss any matter with 1, 2, 3, 4, or all 5 Commissioners. It is the Commission's
responsibility to decide when and what subjects they want to discuss.
The Mayor again asked the staff to be available at 3 o'clock on Mondays and
any of the Commissioners who want to come to these meetings, the staff would be available
for them.
PUBLIC AGENDA
A CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE LICENSE Application was filed by Carol Wilson and Nancy
Hindman, d/b/a The 19th Hole, 2500 East Crawford (Municipal Golf Course). (New)
1
Commissioner Losik asked if we can have cereal malt beverages on city property.
The City Attorney stated there can be cereal malt beverages, but no hard
liquor on City property.
Commissioner Cooper asked if it had to meet the same criteria as a restaurant
in "D" zone, with a percentage of food sales.
The City Attorney replied it would be as an accessory use to the restaurant.
A motion was made by Commissioner Ashton, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber
to approve the cereal malt beverage license application, and instruct the City Clerk to
issue the license. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Ashton, seconded by Commissioner Losik, that
the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0).
Motion carried.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk