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12-23-1974 MinutesCity of Salina, Kansas Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners December 23, 1974 The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commissioners' Room, City -County Building, on Monday, December 23, 1974, at seven o'clock P.M. The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the Flag and a moment of silent prayer. There were present: Mayor W. M. Usher, Chairman presiding Commissioner Robert C. Caldwell Commissioner Norma G. Cooper Commissioner Mike Losik, Jr. Commissioner Jack Weisgerber comprising a quorum of the Board, also: L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney Norris D. Olson, City Manager D. L. Harrison, City Clerk Absent: None Mayor Usher called for the approval of the Minutes of the Regular Meeting of December 16, 1974. Commissioner Losik asked that his comments, which were completely omitted, regarding the request of the North Salina Businessmen's Association be added to the minutes as he felt two portions were very important. Commissioner Losik said, "I have one thing to add to this. I don't know of anything I welcome more than this particular request because for about a year and a half now I have been talking about fire protection, and fire protectio of course means water also. I attended a meeting of the North Salina Re-developm nt Association that this was brought up at that time too with residents in that area feeling they didn't have adequate water; so I think that maybe collectively and through citizen input again, which is a key to the operation of this city, we will be able to do some of these things that people want done and I am hoping that these studies will either give us the pros and the cons as to whether we can or can't. I would hope that more people would come in this way and help us with these things." The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of December 16, 1974 were approved as corrected. AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE adopting by reference the 1975 Edition of the National Electrical Code; amending Section 9-179 of the Salina Code and repealing said original section." A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner Losik to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber, Usher (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8406. The ordinance was introduced for first reading December 16, 1974. AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE appropriating money from the various funds to pay payrolls and claims against the City of Salina, Saline County, Kansas, for the calendar year of 1975, as provided in Kansas Statutes Annotated 13-2601." A motion was made by Commissioner Cooper seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to adopt the ordinance as read and the followin vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber, Usher (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8407. The ordinanc was introduced for first reading December 16, 1974. 296 THE CITY ENGINEER reported on Petition Number 3461 which was filed by Mrs. Carl Newcomb for the installation of signal lights at Ninth Street and Prescott Avenue, and in a detailed report recommended the denial of Petition Number 3461. A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissione Losik to accept the City Engineer's recommendation and deny the petition for signal lights. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission recommending an amendment to Section 9, District "C" of the Zoning Ordinance Number 6613 to include clinics, medical and dental offices, as requested in Petition Number 3458 filed by the City Planning Commission. A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner Cooper to accept the recommendation of the City Planning Commission and introduce an ordinance for first reading amending Section 9, District "C" of Zoning Ordinance Number 6613. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Ordinance Passed: Number: A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission recommending the City Commission not adopt a proposed Charter Ordinance exempting the City from the provisions of K.S.A. 12-715 pertaining to the Board of Zoning Appeals. Mayor Usher said, "I think there may be some confusion on this. This really is not a change in the City Commission making final determination, city planning, but only on those appeals to the Board of Zoning Appeals. Anyone here have any comments regarding this?" There was no response. Mayor Usher asked if the Commission had any comments. Commissioner Cooper said, "I do. I take a little shelter in the fact that this is the era of women's liberation, because I had some very unladylike reactions when I read your recommendation. We have had it in the past. I think we had a recent example where I didn't hear any negative comments from the City Commission on the part of the individual who wanted to seek an appeal from the board, but we were not in a position to do this. I can't imagine how a simple appeals, an additional appeals step procedure could in any way handicap the Board of Appeals, and I haven't felt any tremors from the judicial department. It was suggested in the minutes that it would be infringing, that we would be making quasi judicial decisions. As a matter of fact I can't find anything to recommend your recommendation. Since it was a unanimous decision on the part of everyone I would hope that this Commission would unanimously reject it, but whether they do or not, I do." Commissioner Cooper said, "Just as a point of additional information, Larry, prior to our Metropolitan Planning Board, we had a city zoning ordinance, did it not have this same kind of provision in it?" Mr. Bengtson replied, "No, it did not." Commissioner Losik said, "I would like to add a little onto that also. In times such as we are having from Federal level on down the misuse of authority the misuse of positions, titles and so forth and the fact that everybody up and down the line are stressing for open meeting, stressing for civilian and citizen type input into their government at all levels and somebody to turn to in government to re-establish the integrity that should be and is there in many cases. To eliminate something like this would be creating a monster and not permit the voter, the taxpayer, access to his elected representative, and when we start closing the door on that type of thing, I question whether we are still trying to maintain a democratic system of whether it is what we are trying to do. We have not eliminated the courts, we are just inserting another step for people to follow rather than have to pay for the cost of a trial. I cannot believe that this is not acceptable because under the Metropolitan Planning set up that we were operating under the Attorney General approved our agreement and part of our agreement had that in it, so I cannot see where we would be going against anything by inserting that and establishing a charter ordinance permitting this." Commissioner Cooper said, "Just as a point of additional information, Larry, prior to our Metropolitan Planning Board, we had a city zoning ordinance, did it not have this same kind of provision in it?" Mr. Bengtson replied, "No, it did not." 1 1 297 Commissioner Weisgerber said, "Well, Larry I think what they are sayinc_ is that in this particular case, what Norma and Mike are talking about, is the ability to come up to the City Commission. What they are saying is that this is an area in which the decision should not go to a governmental body, but rather to a judicial body. It should go to the courts, and apparently the State Law which we could override by charter ordinance but apparently State Law says this is the way it should be. Looking at this thing from a legal point of view, do you have an opinion on this?" Mr. Bengtson said, 111 don't have any particular opinion, but as I say the State Law now says that if either the city or the petitioner is aggrieved by a decision of this Board of Zoning Appeals that he may appeal the decision to the district court. Now, what we propose to do by the charter ordinance was allow him, he still could go to the district court if he desired, however he could come to this body here for a ruling on it and then either the city or the petitioner could appeal your decision so you may still not be eliminating an eventual suit in the district court by doing this because either party could appeal your decision to the district court." Commissioner Weisgerber said, "But what I am getting at is in this report the City Planning Commission sent to us, they suggest in here that this is not a good idea to come to the City Planning Commission first, that this may also lead to some possible legal problems that it should be left definitely the way it is, and apparently Mr. Barta, who was there, concurred in that opinion, although it isn't quite clear enough to figure for sure here just what all their arguments real ly were." letter." Mr. Bengtson replied, "I have not seen that report, other than this Commissioner Weisgerber said, "They have got a fairly long dissertation about the whole problem in here, but when they got done with it, they come up with a unanimous decision that we should not make the change." Commissioner Caldwell said, "I would like to hear a comment from Mr. Rawlings, clarifying this, if possible." Mayor Usher asked, "Would you kind of explain a little bit, briefly, what the Zoning Board of Appeals does, and what scope must they operate in, is it a very narrow defined, or is it a broad thing?" Mr. Rawlings said, "Well, the Board of Zoning Appeals is a type of board that is different from any of the other the city can establish. In one respect it is more restricted and is allowed to operate in areas that are specifically granted to it by State Statute and those we feel are the exceptions which translated in our zoning ordinance would be our special class zoning at the present time. They make determinations on which uses can go into which zones and those specified 20 some odd areas. The other area of possibility that they have is in hearing appeals of the decision of the building inspection department when he refused to issue a permit on the grounds that it is not in compliance, the request is not in compliance, with the zoning ordinance, either the side yard set backs, height restrictions and the like, and then only if, and this is where the kind of incongruous part of it is concerned, only if all of 5 restrictions, conditions if you will, which are inserted in the state statutes are met, not four or three of them but all five of them, and where this board then is specifically, at least in this respect is that this is the only board that has the power to make or actually waive the section of your ordinance, in this case the zoning ordinance, and place conditions upon that approval, the planning commission can't, in zoning matters the City Commission can't, it is either a yes or a no. Therefore, it was part of our recommendation of the Planning Commission that in a sense this board is placed in a kind of a quasi judicial position of deciding whether or not to enforce the zoning ordinance that especially in the light of the wording of the State Law it probably was not best to insert a political body in the process, and as you mentioned, there were probably two reasons, but if you could mention one of them being the extra step 298 Commissioner Cooper said, "On this time factor thing, Keith, that I read in the minutes and I can appreciate your concern on it. I think Mr. Barta felt that the wording was hazy, in other words, it did not specify any particular time period in which you could file this appeal." Mr. Rawlings said, "I think that is part of it." Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, that could certainly be remedied, could it not?" Mr. Rawlings replied, "Probably could be in the process." Commissioner Cooper said, "And in terms of say someone on the city staf that might disagree with City Commission decision in terms of a conclusion, wouldn't they be just as free following that decision as they would an appeals board decision to do whatever they wanted to do?" Commissioner Cooper said, "I don't know whether they are going to do it or not to do it, but aren't they just as free to do it following a decision by this body as a decision by the appeals board?" Mr. Rawlings replied, "Theoretically yes, but I think that the fact this governing body would probably end their appointment on the Board of Zoning Appeals and to a certain degree the job in the case of any staff member, there would be some doubt about just what kind of jeopardy he would be in." Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, 1 don't see it that way at all." Mayor Usher asked if there were any other questions. There was no response. By accepting or rejecting this letter, we are really not doing anything per se are we?" Mr. Bengtson replied, "If you accept their recommendation you would not place the charter ordinance on first reading. If you went against their decision and decided you did wish to pursue the charter ordinance,Y ou would have to send it back to the Planning Commission for their reconsideration." Commissioner Losik said, "This would be my motion, that it be referred back to Planning to be reconsidered on the basis of the discussion here this evening." Commissioner Cooper seconded the motion. Commissioner Weisgerber commented, "I think we are just passing the buck right back to someone who has already considered it." Commissioner Losik said, "If it wasn't that we had to do it this way Jack, I'd have made a different motion, but we do have to follow these lines. We can't deny it here tonight can we Larry?" along the way also, we feel that there is probably some question over, especially the wording the way we have it in the proposed charter ordinance, over just what rights the city would have through the BuiL.ding Inspector, the Planning Commissio the City Commission meetings or a petitioner depending upon the outcome of the , City Commission's decision. In other words we are bound by a certain time limitation and the City Commission makes a decision on an appeal and leaves us little or no time usually 10 to 30 days is standard. I believe in Salina it is 30 days, whether we even have time to appeal that, so we are a little concerned over the complexity of, the possible complexity of, the problem if we insert this additional step. We had some concern over whether, even if it might have been in the best interest of the City, whether the city staff, myself or whoever it might be, or the Board of Zoning Appeals for that matter, would take it upon themselves to appeal the decision that you made if you went against them, if they felt that their decision was the right one, and the one that should stand, if you reverse that decision whether or not they would pursue the matter to court. I would be of the opinion that they would be at the very least reluctant to do so." Commissioner Cooper said, "On this time factor thing, Keith, that I read in the minutes and I can appreciate your concern on it. I think Mr. Barta felt that the wording was hazy, in other words, it did not specify any particular time period in which you could file this appeal." Mr. Rawlings said, "I think that is part of it." Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, that could certainly be remedied, could it not?" Mr. Rawlings replied, "Probably could be in the process." Commissioner Cooper said, "And in terms of say someone on the city staf that might disagree with City Commission decision in terms of a conclusion, wouldn't they be just as free following that decision as they would an appeals board decision to do whatever they wanted to do?" Commissioner Cooper said, "I don't know whether they are going to do it or not to do it, but aren't they just as free to do it following a decision by this body as a decision by the appeals board?" Mr. Rawlings replied, "Theoretically yes, but I think that the fact this governing body would probably end their appointment on the Board of Zoning Appeals and to a certain degree the job in the case of any staff member, there would be some doubt about just what kind of jeopardy he would be in." Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, 1 don't see it that way at all." Mayor Usher asked if there were any other questions. There was no response. By accepting or rejecting this letter, we are really not doing anything per se are we?" Mr. Bengtson replied, "If you accept their recommendation you would not place the charter ordinance on first reading. If you went against their decision and decided you did wish to pursue the charter ordinance,Y ou would have to send it back to the Planning Commission for their reconsideration." Commissioner Losik said, "This would be my motion, that it be referred back to Planning to be reconsidered on the basis of the discussion here this evening." Commissioner Cooper seconded the motion. Commissioner Weisgerber commented, "I think we are just passing the buck right back to someone who has already considered it." Commissioner Losik said, "If it wasn't that we had to do it this way Jack, I'd have made a different motion, but we do have to follow these lines. We can't deny it here tonight can we Larry?" L 299 Mr. Bengtson explained, "The state law provides that for a change in the zoning ordinance you must have the recommendation of the Planning Commission whether it be to rezone a piece of property or to change the ordinance itself. The law provides they will make their recommendation to you and if you accept their recommendation, of course you go ahead and proceed with the change; however it says if you do not concur in their recommendation you must send it back to them one time, with your reasons for returning it, and then when their recommendation comes back, you are free to do whatever you desire." Mayor Usher asked, "Do we have a valid reason for returning it?" Commissioner Caldwell said, "I am not knowledgeable about it." Commissioner Losik said, "Well that is a valid reason." The City Attorney and the City Planner had a lengthy discussion concerning the necessity of holding a public hearing for the change in the ordinance. Mayor Usher called for a vote on the motion to return the letter to the City Planning Commission for their reconsideration for clarification and a full explanation. Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik (3). Nays: Weisgerber, Usher (2). Motion carried. CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE LICENSE Applications were filed for 1975 for: E & J Restaurant The Body Shop Restaurant Jo Jo's The Rendezvous Warehouse Market Straw Hat Pizza Palace Peacock Lounge Lamer' s Market 816 North Santa Fe 1014 East Prescott Road 311 East Pacific 1012' North Broadway 1740 West Crawford 2030 South Ohio 624 Reynolds 145 North Phillips The City Clerk reported all have paid the required fee, and have been approved by the Zoning Officer, Health Department and the Police Department. A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to approve the cereal malt beverage license applications for 1975 and authorize the City Clerk to issue the licenses. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. COMMISSION AGENDA "REQUEST FOR FUNDING OF SALINA BI -CENTENNIAL COMMITTEE FOR 1974-1975". (Sponsored by Mayor Usher). Mayor Usher commented, "Since we appointed this committee in July of this year, we have seen some tremendous action on the part of our co-chairpers ns and their committee. At the time we appointed it I know I was aware of the fact, I am sure the others had some idea that eventually they would require some fundin in order to have a real good celebration of our bi-centennial. We have reached this point. I have asked them to come down and briefly tell us what their plans are, they advise me they have a proposed budget. From there we hope we can come up with some kind of a recommendation for your funding." Mrs. Karen Graves, co -chairperson, thanked the Commission for this once in a century opportunity to head Salina's biggest birthday party ever, the bi- centennial. She asked the members present to stand. She presented their plans in three area: 1 Heritage 176, 2. Festivals U.S.A., 3. Horizons 176, and said Salina is just hours or days away from being designated as a National Bi -centennial Community. Mr. Gerald Shadwick, budget and finance director, presented their firs budget and asked the City Commission for $10,000 so they can apply for matching funds from the federal program. He said March 1975 to December 1976 is the celebration period. He said there are three sources of funding: 1. City funds, 2. Federal Funds, 3. contributions; and that the $10,000 with the matching funds is not all the funds they are going to need. 300 Dr. Dahlquist, Co-chairman, explained the funding, and that the $200,0 made available to Kansas will not be made available again, and that the State Bi -centennial committee will consider requests of up to $10,000 so the local committee must make application for these matching funds by March 1, 1975. Mayor Usher asked the City Manager if the City Commission acts favorabI if there are funds available? Mr. Olson replied they have been working on year end budget and he said it appears there would be money available. A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik to appropriate $10,000.00 to the Salina Bi -Centennial Committee. Ayes: (5) Nays: (0). Motion carried. Commissioner Caldwell mentioned that at the last meeting of the Kansas Committee for the Humanities, it was rumored that monies would probably be available for the bi-centennial programs. Commissioner Cooper said, "I want to take this opportunity for the Commissioners who haven't had a chance to visit with the Bi -centennial Committee to thank you for your efforts and your time and your involvement. We hope you are enjoying it and we appreciate your services." Mrs. Graves asked the City Commission to go on record with a resolution urging all Salina citizens and all Salina groups to channel their bi-centennial activities through their commission to avoid duplication. Commissioner Cooper said, "We can't require them to do it, but we urge them to do it." Mayor Usher asked the news media to carry that for them. MR. OLSON stated there are funds available and would like approval of establishing a Community Development Fund for expenses involving the making of the application of $10,000.00; also the need of a front end loader for $2,140.00 and a trencher for $3,695.00 which has been used 60 hours. A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to add the consideration of the Community Development Fund and the purchase of a front end loader and a trencher to the agenda. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to fund the Community Development Fund in the amount of $10,000.00 the purchase of a front end loader in the amount of $2,140.00; and the purchase of a trencher in the amount of $3,695.00, in the priority listed, subject to the availability of funds. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. PUBLIC AGENDA PETITION NUMBER 3464 was filed by Larry L. James, 2040 Leland Way for the rezoning of Lots 13, 15, 16, Block 3, Mayfair Addition from District "A" (Second Dwelling House District) to District "DD" (Office District), along with a letter that the petition be considered at a public hearing on February 4, 1975 to it can be considered with a petition to be filed by John Weckel. A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to refer the petition to the City Planning Commission, and that it be considered at a public hearing on February 4, 1975. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Commissioner Losik said, "I think since we have shown this indication 1 11 of the committee being formed, the funding of it, I think it would be appropria we request the people to cooperate in this request." Mayor Usher asked the news media to carry that for them. MR. OLSON stated there are funds available and would like approval of establishing a Community Development Fund for expenses involving the making of the application of $10,000.00; also the need of a front end loader for $2,140.00 and a trencher for $3,695.00 which has been used 60 hours. A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to add the consideration of the Community Development Fund and the purchase of a front end loader and a trencher to the agenda. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to fund the Community Development Fund in the amount of $10,000.00 the purchase of a front end loader in the amount of $2,140.00; and the purchase of a trencher in the amount of $3,695.00, in the priority listed, subject to the availability of funds. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. PUBLIC AGENDA PETITION NUMBER 3464 was filed by Larry L. James, 2040 Leland Way for the rezoning of Lots 13, 15, 16, Block 3, Mayfair Addition from District "A" (Second Dwelling House District) to District "DD" (Office District), along with a letter that the petition be considered at a public hearing on February 4, 1975 to it can be considered with a petition to be filed by John Weckel. A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to refer the petition to the City Planning Commission, and that it be considered at a public hearing on February 4, 1975. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. 301 A LETTER was received from the citizens of Salina, Kansas requesting the City Commission to take the necessary steps to make the East Crawford Street project eligible for receiving funds from the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1973, and further support the City Commission in utilizing the Federal Aid Highway Act Funds in improving other major streets in Salina, Kansas. Mayor Usher explained Mr. Ogan of the State Highway Commission had come to Salina to discuss with the Commission and staff the procedures and what is available in the Federal Highway Act of 1973. Robert Frobenius, 1910 East Crawford, reviewed the construction of East Crawford Road, and said he is not against paying his fair share, but if there are funds available on a participation basis, the City and the City Engineer may be able to produce a far superior road than is now envisioned. Mr. Ernie Dill said, "The road that would have to be built to meet the standards of the Federal Government as I understand it is a heavier road, is thicker concrete, heavier reinforcement, and would probably take a lot less maintenance in the future than the road that is planned at the present time. With 70% matching funds the road becomes a federal road, at least a subsidized road, if it later has to because of the traffic count if it has to be made larger then I think your chances of obtaining federal assistance to build the other extra two lanes is a great deal greater than if you build the first two lanes yourself and build a road that will not meet the standards of the Federal Government." Commissioner Weisgerber said, "Some time back when the Citizens Advisory Committee reviewed the general priorities of the City, one of the top things on their list was the Crawford Street, principally from Broadway clear on east through the main part of town, to the bridge and east to the city limits." He asked the City Engineer if it would be practical and possible to send a request in to cover not only East Crawford that we are talking about but to cover the redoing of Crawford Street since it is one arterial and one of the main ones through Salina to cover the entire project. "They might not fund it all in one year. Would they accept the project and either fund it all in one year, or might they fund the thing over several years? Would it pay to make one application? The thing I am afraid of is that there are going to be a number of requests for these funds and if we get one project for Salina and another one comes along, we are going to be given a back seat on a second project while they take care of other cities. If we could wrap it all up in one request, we would maybe be better off than if we would try to do this part in a request and then come back and say we are not through and want more funds, would this be a better approach? There is one other area that may lay claim on the same funds. Another thing we ought to check out while we are checking into this I think is the possibility of the installation of the rubber crossings on the railroad tracks, particularly on the main streets. If we redid Crawford that would catch a couple on the Missouri Pacific and the Union Pacific tracks, but this is a 70-30 matchin fund and I think these new rail crossings are a 90-10; so it may be an entirely different funding. I guess maybe I am talking about two different things here, when I bring in the railroad tracks too, but they might also be something that would want to lay claim on the same funds. What about asking for all of Crawford " Mr. Boyer replied, "They would rather you program more than you can do in one year. They would like the city to get ahead of them on their planning, so when the funds are available you will be able to take advantage of the maximum amount of funds." Mayor Usher said, "There are specific sections on that railroad crossing which I haven't got the section numbers here and he was supposed to check that out for us, did you ever year from him?" Mr. Boyer replied, "No, I haven't heard from Mr. Ogan on the railroad crossings." Mr. Boyer replied, "To get the maximum benefit from the funds, you should probably ask for an extended project like Crawford being an arterial clear through, then certainly the State in their determination, they determine funds at so much per year, you would be advised that it would have Commissioner Weisgerber asked, "They wouldn't throw to be broken up." out the whole thing simply because we asked for too much?" Mr. Boyer replied, "They would rather you program more than you can do in one year. They would like the city to get ahead of them on their planning, so when the funds are available you will be able to take advantage of the maximum amount of funds." Mayor Usher said, "There are specific sections on that railroad crossing which I haven't got the section numbers here and he was supposed to check that out for us, did you ever year from him?" Mr. Boyer replied, "No, I haven't heard from Mr. Ogan on the railroad crossings." 302 Commissioner Usher asked, "Why don't we ask for the whole ball of wax and see what we get?" A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to take the necessary action to submit the letter requesting that this project be made eligible for funds, and also refer to the railroad crossings. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A REQUEST was received from William B. Stokes to ask several questions direct to the City Commission, per se, concerning the letter of intent issued to George Etherington. Mr. Stokes said, "I see Mr. Etherington is here, and that is real nice. I let him know when I am coming down, but he doesn't let me know when is is going to be coming down. I would appreciate it if the Commission, per se, would be the one to answer my questions, and then Mr. Etherington if he has any comments you might like to hear from him. "First, we would like to know, and I can be wrong at times and from my interpretation of the reading here it says the Shalimar Plaza Resolution was not on the Commission's public, published agenda, is that a correct statement?" Mayor Usher said, "That is correct, it wasn't." Mr. Stokes asked, "Why was it not on the public agenda?" deadline." Mayor Usher said, "Because it came in after the Thursday five o'clock Commissioner Cooper said, "That is what I am saying." Mr. Stokes said, "Well then this is why I was wondering how the public gets to participate -- strike that. Let's move on to the next statement then, evidentally there was an emergency in the letter of intent. Is there any liability, either directly or indirectly on behalf of the City for the issuing of that letter of intent?" Mayor Usher said, "None to our knowledge, and Larry you will have to keep me out of trouble here." Mr. Stokes said, "Now, let me continue and carry that one step farther then. I am referring to the fact as a tax payer that once that letter of intent is issued,that it is completely consumated and those bonds are issued they are dropped into the till and then G & K can proceed, we would hope to build a nursing home, add to it, remodel, or whatever the bonds might call for and then at that time if there is a default on a payment, where is there any liability on behalf of the City? Is there any liability?" Mayor Usher said, "None." Commissioner Losik said, "I believe I can enlighten you. First of all the letter of intent makes this available for the individual requesting it, to go out and seek his own purchaser of those bonds based on whatever collateral and financial statements he may present to the people wanting to purchase those,bonds and as far as the liability on the part of the City that is their problem to get those bonds sold. Now as far as losing revenue we don't because in this case there would be an in lieu of taxes payment made rather than just be tax exempt as they would be under normal industrial revenue bonds." Mr. Stokes said, "And we are talking about one and twenty-five hundredths millions of dollars?" a bit. I Commissioner Cooper said, wasn't present at that "I would like to qualify that if I may, just particular meeting, Mr. Stokes, but our industrial bond issue meetings are never on the public agenda at the time that we discuss them with the person who is making the proposal." Mayor Usher said, "This is not unusual when we deal with Industrial Revenues." Commissioner Cooper said, "That is what I am saying." Mr. Stokes said, "Well then this is why I was wondering how the public gets to participate -- strike that. Let's move on to the next statement then, evidentally there was an emergency in the letter of intent. Is there any liability, either directly or indirectly on behalf of the City for the issuing of that letter of intent?" Mayor Usher said, "None to our knowledge, and Larry you will have to keep me out of trouble here." Mr. Stokes said, "Now, let me continue and carry that one step farther then. I am referring to the fact as a tax payer that once that letter of intent is issued,that it is completely consumated and those bonds are issued they are dropped into the till and then G & K can proceed, we would hope to build a nursing home, add to it, remodel, or whatever the bonds might call for and then at that time if there is a default on a payment, where is there any liability on behalf of the City? Is there any liability?" Mayor Usher said, "None." Commissioner Losik said, "I believe I can enlighten you. First of all the letter of intent makes this available for the individual requesting it, to go out and seek his own purchaser of those bonds based on whatever collateral and financial statements he may present to the people wanting to purchase those,bonds and as far as the liability on the part of the City that is their problem to get those bonds sold. Now as far as losing revenue we don't because in this case there would be an in lieu of taxes payment made rather than just be tax exempt as they would be under normal industrial revenue bonds." 303 Mr. Stokes said, "I appreciate that sir, my point is then once that nursing home is build, if G & K would default in their payment, does the city become involved in any way? Does the City own a nursing home?" Commissioner Losik said, "No, in addition to that they are providing insurance to guarantee the payments, the lease payments, under the bond issue." Mr. Stokes said, "Well I've still got one question and that is as a tax payer. Is the City ever going to be liable for that letter of intent, that is my question." Commissioner Cooper said, "Our attorney has told us that we are not, but he might explain our position better than we can, but he has told us ..." Mr. Stokes said, "Okay then" Commissioner Cooper said, "When we have, when we agreed, when the City Commission has agreed to an industrial bond issue that the city at large is not liable in any way." Mr. Stokes said, "At any time, either directly or indirectly." Commissioner Cooper said, "This is what the City Attorney has told us." Mr. Stokes said, "Mr. Mayor, then would you have somebody instructed from the City Staff to give me a letter for my files for that purpose. I would like one. I need one. We'll move on to the next subject. I assume then that since this was never on the agenda or anything I would like to ask the next one were there plans and specifications presented to the City Commission on which they would issue that letter of intent?" Mayor Usher said, "No final plans. Preliminary sketches were presented to us." Mr. Stokes said, "One and twenty-five hundredths millions. Was there a financial statement? A verified financial statement by G & K?" Mayor Usher said, "No, we didn't." Mr. Stokes said, "By a CPA as to what their status might be financially" Mayor Usher said, "No." Mr. Stokes said, "And you would say one and twenty-five tenths millions, has any of this been checked out by the City as to the cost per bed as a feasibility or anything as to whether it might be cheaper just to wipe that out and build a whole new nursing home? How much per bed this one and twenty-five tenths millions will cost versus what the national average is at the present time " Mayor Usher replied, "The bonding house first needs a letter of intent before it will go to the expense of providing and securing a feasibility study. It is up to them to go ahead and do that, and then they make the determination whether the bonds are saleable, and whether it is a good issue, and of course if they, if the bonding house, which is a reputable firm that I am acquainted with wants to go ahead and put their name on it, and sell the bonds, why that is fine and dandy as far as I am concerned, that sounds to me like a financial or a good risk." Mr. Stokes said, "If the bonding company wants to put their name to sell the bonds?" Mayor Usher said, "Yes, they have a reputation." Mr. Stokes said, "I would like to know what the status is. Is the area that is east of Marymount and north of Crawford, is that in the city limits, and I noticed a lot of stakes out there and it is getting ready to be developed." 304 Mr. Olson replied, "It has been platted." Mr. Stokes asked, "Who is going to pay then for the curb, gutter, sewer, streets, etcetera?" Mr. Stokes said, "I hate to be so loquacious, but in the past I have had some very tramatic experiences with the entrepreneurs in town here. I have had to pay the tab for them as they would slowly walk away. This is another reason that I am very interested in these industrial revenue bonds. I have gone through it myself. I know the answers gentlemen. I just want the record from you gentlemen to me on this rip-off and if you would please give me a letter I would appreciate it." Commissioner Weisgerber said, "The only possible thing I could think of here is there is no liability on the city's so far as the bonds are concerned. Mr. Stokes said, "I am not talking about the bonds, per se, 1 am getting clear on down through to the conclusion when that rest home has been remodeled, and the additional rooms have been put on, somebody has got to make those payments." Commissioner Weisgerber said, "We have no liability for that." Mr. Stokes said, "And when that man, corporation, partnership, whatever business entity it might be, default in the making of those payments, I want to know if the City of Salina is going to own a rest home?" Commissioner Weisgerber said, "No." Mr. Stokes said "I don't want to get in the rest home business." Commissioner Cooper explained, "Then it is the bonding company that bought their bonds that is left holding." Mayor Usher said, "The bond holders are the ones that are stuck, Bill. Mr. Olson replied, "The property owners are assessed the same as they better go back are throughout the rest of Salina." Mr. Stokes said, "Okay, but then this is just a new platted area like I think we had down in Belmont and several other the City areas where was moving in and picking up the tap instead of the contractor having to either pay for it have something himself or put up a bond. I think we got caught. I think we had to go back to the well for more money to bail out Belmont. I don't know who developed Belmont somebody that for sure but anyway, me, as a taxpayer, I had to pay for the entrepreneuring endeavors of that promotor whenever all the lots didn't sell forthwith and I wanted to get it crystal clear with the City Commission tonight. Is that still our position that we are not subsidizing the developers?" could you send Mr. Stokes a letter Mayor Usher replied, "That is right. They have to pay for it." explaining the city's position on industrial Commissioner Weisgerber said, "We have got a new city resolution issues? since the area that you are talking about which requires the developer to have one half down in advance." Mr. Stokes said, "I hate to be so loquacious, but in the past I have had some very tramatic experiences with the entrepreneurs in town here. I have had to pay the tab for them as they would slowly walk away. This is another reason that I am very interested in these industrial revenue bonds. I have gone through it myself. I know the answers gentlemen. I just want the record from you gentlemen to me on this rip-off and if you would please give me a letter I would appreciate it." Commissioner Weisgerber said, "The only possible thing I could think of here is there is no liability on the city's so far as the bonds are concerned. Mr. Stokes said, "I am not talking about the bonds, per se, 1 am getting clear on down through to the conclusion when that rest home has been remodeled, and the additional rooms have been put on, somebody has got to make those payments." Commissioner Weisgerber said, "We have no liability for that." Mr. Stokes said, "And when that man, corporation, partnership, whatever business entity it might be, default in the making of those payments, I want to know if the City of Salina is going to own a rest home?" Commissioner Weisgerber said, "No." Mr. Stokes said "I don't want to get in the rest home business." Commissioner Cooper explained, "Then it is the bonding company that bought their bonds that is left holding." Mayor Usher said, "The bond holders are the ones that are stuck, Bill. The City Attorney indicated he could. Commissioner Cooper moved that the City Attorney do this for Mr. Stoke Commissioner Losik seconded the motion. Mr. George Etherington said, "You better go back to law school, Bill Stokes." Mr. Stokes said, "I would like to have something from somebody. We don't need a resolution or anything. I want somebody that can give something in writing to that effect. I'll be happy." Commissioner Cooper asked, "Larry, could you send Mr. Stokes a letter explaining the city's position on industrial revenue bond issues? The City Attorney indicated he could. Commissioner Cooper moved that the City Attorney do this for Mr. Stoke Commissioner Losik seconded the motion. 1 n 1 305 Commissioner Caldwell asked, "Mr. Stokes, this isn't the first time we have issued any of these bonds." Mr. Stokes said, "Well it isn't the first time I have ever delt in that field either." Commissioner Caldwell asked, "Why weren't you available at the other times? I am just asking a personal question here? Why did you not comment on the others we have issued?" Mr. Stokes said, "Right." Commissioner Caldwell asked, "Why is this one so prevelent and takes precident over the others is all I want to know. I want to know it so I'll know better next time." Mr. Stokes said, "Well I'm afraid my position here in society that any comment that I might make in that regard might be held against me, if we went into one of these closed meetings I could explain." Mayor Usher called for a vote on the motion. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A MOTION was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. D. L. Harrison, City Clerk