03-18-1974 Minutes96
City of Salina, Kansas
Regular Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
March 18, 1974
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the
Commissioners' Room, City -County Building, on Monday, March 18, 1974, at four
o'clock P.M.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the
Flag and a moment of silent prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Jack Weisgerber, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Robert C. Caldwell
Commissioner Norma G. Cooper
Commissioner Mike Losik, Jr.
Commissioner W. M. Usher
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
Mayor Weisgerber called for the approval of the Minutes of the Regular
Meeting March 11, 1974.
Commissioner Cooper said, "Last week the Commission spent a considerabl
period of time discussing the Haggart petition. The minutes reflect your
explanation, Jack's explanation, to the attorneys in the event that the Planning
recommendation was not accepted. The minutes also contain some comments from
some of the people who were present concerning that particular petition. There
are no minutes regarding some lengthy conversations that you, that Jack, had with
the counsel, the same way with Bill, comments and the replies. Dr. Olson was
present. The minutes do not reflect this nor the fact that he also had some
personal opinions. My question is how do you decide what stays in and what
stays out?"
Mr. Harrison replied, "We have 19 pages here of the conversation
on this one item that was discussed at the meeting. We tried to condense it
down and maybe we left out something that should have been in the minutes.
I don't know."
Commissioner Cooper said, "I am not suggesting that it has to be verbat
I am not saying that at all; but it would appear to me - like I say, Jack had
some lengthy discussions with counsel. Bill had some comments. Bob made some
remarks. None of this particular conversation appears in the minutes. Now if
Jack and Bill want it that way, I suppose this is acceptable; however it would
seem to me that the purpose of the minutes are to reflect the conversation -
or at least some of the conversation that has taken place. It should be hit
upon lightly in some manner I would think, but this is again the wish of the
Commission."
Mr. Harrison replied. "We get in the place where it is a transcript
instead of the minutes sometimes. They get quite lengthy, but like I say I
will put part of it in there."
Commissioner Cooper said, "Well this is up to the Commission. I only
brought it to their attention because it appeared there was as much omitted as
there was recorded."
9.7
Commissioner Usher said, "I think basically, as far as I am concerned,
the minutes arrived at the conclusion of what happened, and a lot of this was
ground that we had plowed before."
Commissioner Losik said, "Well Bill, we have shown here where some of
the people, three in particular, three ladies, had commented. Now in keeping
with this I think it would be advisable to go ahead and show that Dr. Olson was
also commenting. What I am saying is you don't have - I don't feel we need to
go line for line, but people who did specifically stand up and had firm
convictions and statements to make. It should be stated that they did so. Now
whether we want to put it all in there word for word, I don't think it is really
necessary; but recognize the people who did make the comment, and I think then
we would have a little better record that if we had to go back and try to
reconstruct it, we would know who was there and made comments and then we can go
from there."
Mr. Harrison said he would have the secretary type that part into
the minutes.
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "How much detail do cities in general record
in their minutes, when there is a long discussion like this, much of it repititou ?
Is there any kind of a general practice on this sort of thing?"
Mr. Bengtson replied, "I am certainly not aware of a general rule; but
I think the minutes should be kept of official action taken. When you get into
a lot of the detail as to who was here, I think appearances are good and I think
it is well to have it in the minutes that so and so and so appeared, but to quote
them verbatum, I don't think this is a part of the minutes. Actually you are
getting into, as Don said, a transcript and I think just out of necessity it
must be condensed down. I think a person would have to show in the minutes who
appeared for it and who appeared against it, and the comments could be completely
eliminated, because I don't think they are really a part of the minutes."
Commissioner Caldwell commented that Dr. Olson's comments came after
the action was taken.
Commissioner Losik replied that they should be recognized that they
did appear for or opposed to something.
Commissioner Cooper said, "I think I stated that I didn't feel it
was necessary or even needed to be close to verbatum, but if the Commission
is going to sit up here and discuss a subject with someone who is in attendance,
certainly you are going to reflect in the minutes the final action taken by the
Commission; but it would also be helpful to know how they arrived at that final
action to some degree. This is really what I am suggesting, but if it isn't
acceptable, this is fine with me."
Mr. Olson said, "I would like to answer the Mayor's question. You will
find that minutes vary as much as the Commissions vary throughout the country.
You will have some that will have nothing but consideration of a subject and
the action taken with no intervening debate or comment. You will have the
minutes in some communities that are transcribed and are transcripts. In
essence some of ours have been quite lengthy and I think to go short of a
transcript and of course this would take I don't know how many hours of a full
time secretary to transcribe some of our lengthy meetings. I think if nine of
us here, for example, were each to take the transcribed portion, we would each
come up with nine sets of minutes that wouldn't relate totally to what took
place, and this is always a value judgement, and it is always going to be open
to suggestions, so if we follow our past pattern, I think just raise the
question from the bench that you would like to have certain portions inserted,
and we will go back to the transcript and insert them. "
Mayor Weisgerber said, "In other words what you are suggesting is
it might be practical to let the Clerk write this to the best of his ability as
he sees it, condensing it, and then if he misses points that members of this
Commission would like to have, then add those at the next meeting."
Mr. Olson commented, "The question was raised that Dr. Olson's
comments had been omitted from the minutes. Okay we can put Dr. Olson's comments
in the minutes, then the comment was raised that Commissioner Caldwell's comments
were not included in the minutes. I am sure there are some comments from all
five of you that aren't in the minutes. We can continue on this value judgement
basis and if you wish certain sections included later, then we can."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "Well, if we would follow what may be the
concensus of opinion the, why don't we approve these subject to these additions.
Let's try and see how it works letting the Clerk condense these to the best he
can and we will read them a little more carefully and then if we have some
particular additions, we will make them; and see how we get along at boiling it
down because 19 pages is a lot, and some of these discussions, particularly on
some of these annexation things that we have up here two or three times get
awfully long and they are principally the same."
The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of March 18, 1974 were approved
as amended. STAFF AGENDA
A CHARTER ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "A
CHARTER ORDINANCE exempting the City of Salina, Kansas, from K.S.A. 79-1951,
which provides for a maximum rate of levy in any one year; providing substitute
and additional provisions on the same subject; amending Charter Ordinance
Number 3 of the City of Salina, Kansas, and repealing said existing charter
ordinance." A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner
Losik to adopt the Charter Ordinance as read and the following vote was had:
Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Usher, Weisgerber (5). Nays: (0). Carried.
The Mayor approved the Charter Ordinance and it is numbered Charter Ordinance
Number 9. The ordinance was introduced for first reading March 11, 1974.
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
annexing certain land to the City of Salina, Kansas, in conformity with the
provisions of K. S. A. 1972 Supplement 12-520." (A tract of land in Section 17,
Towpship 14 South, Range 2 West of the 6th Principal Meridian - Georgetown
Addition). A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner
Caldwell to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had:
Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Usher, Weisgerber (5). Nays: (0). Carried.
The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8340. The ordinance was
introduced for first reading March 11, 1974.
THE CITY ENGINEER filed plans and specifications for Engineering
Project 74-564 for street and utility improvements in Country Hills Addition
Number 2 and sanitary sewer system for Blocks 1, 2, 3, Georgetown Addition. A
motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher to accept
the plans and specifications and set the date of April 1, 1974 as the date to
receive bids. Ayes: (.5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
THE CITY COMMISSIONERS considered a Farm Lease Agreement for Section 7,
Township 15 South, Range 3 West of the 6th Principal Meridian, in Saline County,
Kansas, (except areas used by the City for water storage tank and solid waste
disposal purposes).
Mayor Weisgerber asked if anyone had any questions on the contract
Commissioner Losik said he had one question and that was the time
element of the lease. He said, "It was my understanding that it would not go
until 1977."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "That completes the original five years, does
it not?"
Commissioner Losik said, "This is one of the controversial items
we had. We were very explicit on it. It was my opinion that after we had
discussed it, we did not not agree to use the 1977 date. Rather than hassel
it over here if we feel there are still some differences, I would request that
since this is a legal matter that we discuss it in an executive session and make
our decision and go with it."
Commissioner Usher said, "Well Mike, here again we are plowing ground
we have been over before. Originally I think what we decided to do was to
terminate the lease, then found out that they weren't prepared to terminate it,
and it was, I think, with recommendation from counsel that we go ahead and explo
rewriting the lease agreement and set it up with terms that are basic to a farm
lease and also provide in it certain protections for our city so that we would
not be subject to possible liability suits from the leasee. I think the Mayor
and the counsel and the City Manager have worked out something we can live with
and something with which we couldn't be subject to criticism."
Commissioner Losik replied, "I am not questioning any part of the
lease with the exception of the date, because that was the controversial thing,
and in my opinion this Commission had never agreed on it."
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "I think we have."
Commissioner Usher commented, "I think we have an opportunity to
agree or disagree right now."
Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, there has been such a time gap between
when this thing was first initiated and the final document that, and there were
no records kept of our discussions so there is no way of supporting this thing
one way or the other, apparently everybody is going to have a different idea of
what happened. My idea is that the last time the Commission visited with
Mr. Bengtson with regards to this particular matter, my understanding is that
we did not wish to create any kind of a hardship for the leasee in terms of crops
and farming that he had already done; so instead of holding with what I think
was the original lease between the building or the Airport Authority and the
leasee, and according to that lease it could have been terminated within 60 days
or something like this. I think the time period was extended so that the
gentleman could go ahead and recover This crops and any investments that he has
made, then I thought we were to work out a proposed lease which he could accept
or reject, but I thought we were going simply to put this thing up, once the
City had the jurisdiction on it, I thought we were going to put this property
up for bids, so that anybody could bid on it, including the leasee or anybody
else that wants to. I don't know that anybody else wants to, but it has been
the practice of the City Commission in the past in areas of this kind to try and
have a bid procedure of some kind on these sort of things. So I don't think we
intended in any way to create any kind of hardships for the gentleman and if he
had crops and things that he had already proceeded with, I think we were more
than willing to let him go ahead and complete that part of it, but I certainly
felt that once the City had that item clarified, that we would make the property
available for bid."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "Larry do you remember. This was true at one
time, then they came back with the idea of the written lease that they had,
being a contractually sound lease that they would be able to defend in court,
then somewhere, rather than go to this state I think we advised you, rather than
have a suit over this, see if we can rework this thing to where it is satisfactor
to both sides. When this happened I can't remember. How do you recall this
because you have done a great deal of the work in drawing this."
Mr. Bengtson replied, "As I recall, when we started out a year ago
after we purchased this land, we terminated the lease under the terms of the
Airport Authority. They elected to terminate the lease at our request, and we
felt we had a right to have the lease terminated as to the entire section of
ground. Of course, the tenant, at that time, acknowledged our right to cancel
the lease as to that portion we are actually using, however he was advised that
he felt we could not cancel it as to the entire tract; and so we had a bona fide
dispute on it. I think we could, and the other side thinks we couldn't. If we
can't resolve this there is only one thing we do, we have a law suit over it.
I think at the time, after we discussed it on two or three different occasions,
I feel it was the concensus of opinion of your group here, that rather than get
involved in a litigation, and the expense of litigation and over a period of
probably a year or two, that we should try to work out a new lease with Mr.
Hocking which would allow him to complete the 5 years that he originally had
with the Salina Airport Authority, but make it on a more equitable basis.
100
I think the time of the lease was provided for a $6,000 cash rental and $1.25
wheat wasn't quite equitable at the present time, so this lease was based on what
would normally transpire in the normal farm lease, and that is that the land owne
would receive 1/3 of the wheat and then a per dollar an acre for the pasture, and
this is my impression of it. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know; but I thought we
were trying to work out something that would be a standard lease that most people
would have and he would get to complete the term that he originally had."
Commissioner Cooper replied, "Oh, I agree that we were going to draw
up the new lease, and work out a different kind of financing, but I thought the
original problem came about because the City acquired the property. This
invalidated the leasee's agreement with the Airport Authority."
Mr. Bengtson said, "No, it didn't invalidate it, but the lease
provided that in the event it is sold to another governmental unit that they
had the option to cancel the lease. Which we requested that they do; however
Mr. Hocking's attorney felt that the lease, the way it was written, allowed us
only to cancel the lease as to that portion that we would actually use for
landfill, which maybe was 20 or 30 acres, and here is where we got into
disagreement. Could we or could we not legally cancel? And if we couldn't
agree or draw up a new lease or at least arrive at some solution, we had no
alternative but to go into a law suit to see if we could or could not cancel."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "But why would we agree to continue the
lease for the same period when, like I said, in the past I think, I know I did
express these views that I felt that the property should, by the fore part of
the year or sometime shortly come up for an open bid. Now yes, that we were
going to have to make different kinds of arrangements, but you are saying that
that is not the instructions you received from this Commission."
Mr. Bengtson said, "And I think you will recall we had probably 2 or
3 meetings after that and we discussed it at various times, and we discussed the
possibility that we were going to get involved in litigation and I think I left
it to you if we should stand our ground or go back into the courts and get a
legal determination of this or we can attempt to negotiate a new lease. Now I
know at least some of you expressed the opinion that you
felt that this lease, that he should be given an opportunito to complete the
term of his lease he had with the Airport Authority, but probably on more
equitable terms with the City. Now this is the impression I got. If I am wrong
you can turn it down or you can do whatever you want to with it. I mean just
because this was drawn and this is my impression of it you certainly don't have
to accept it. This is up to you whether you want to accept it or reject the
proposal."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "Would this be an acceptable way to proceed
for the City Commission to just simply continue this gentleman's lease without
giving anyone else an opportunity to bid on this ground?
Mr. Bengtson replied, "Not
unless I
misinterpreted you. Now, I will
may do whateve
agree that the first time we met and
when we
had cancelled and we talked and
put it on, you can reject this
even the County Commissioners were here. You
indicated that you felt it ought
you are going
to be put up for bids. Cancel it and
put it
up for bids."
of course if this is the case,
Commissioner Cooper said, "After
the
man had had an opportunity to
recover whatever kind of agricultural
program
he had started."
Mr. Bengtson said, "And I think you will recall we had probably 2 or
3 meetings after that and we discussed it at various times, and we discussed the
possibility that we were going to get involved in litigation and I think I left
it to you if we should stand our ground or go back into the courts and get a
legal determination of this or we can attempt to negotiate a new lease. Now I
know at least some of you expressed the opinion that you
felt that this lease, that he should be given an opportunito to complete the
term of his lease he had with the Airport Authority, but probably on more
equitable terms with the City. Now this is the impression I got. If I am wrong
you can turn it down or you can do whatever you want to with it. I mean just
because this was drawn and this is my impression of it you certainly don't have
to accept it. This is up to you whether you want to accept it or reject the
proposal."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "Would this be an acceptable way to proceed
for the City Commission to just simply continue this gentleman's lease without
giving anyone else an opportunity to bid on this ground?
Mr. Bengtson said, "This is up to your discretion.
You
may do whateve
you wish. I mean you can
put it on, you can reject this
and
say
you are going
to put it out on bids, and
of course if this is the case,
then I
suppose we
will end up in litigation
because Mr. Hocking's attitude
is we had
no right to
cancel the other lease, as
to the entire section. I feel
we
did,
but there is
a bona fide dispute and if
you do have one, you are going
to
end
up in the
courts."
101
Commissioner Cooper replied, "Well I don't know how we can get a bona
fide dispute over that, when actually the terms of the lease agreement that he
had with the Airport Authority did specify that ..."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "... not clearly. Mr. Hocking came by when I
was out at the farm one day. He came by and had quite a visit with me about this,
and he pointed out the paragraphs in the old lease which could be, in his opinion,
I think we did feel that it was clear to us. He interpreted it differently,
which is what lawyers and individuals have a right to do. I just, as Mr. Bengtson
has said, this lease that we have here really represents a considerable compromise
on his part, from the point of view of the amount of money that the City will be
getting out of this year, due largely of course to the Tncrease in the wheat price.
But he recognized the fact that on the old acreage basis and the current price of
wheat it was certainly inequitable to the city; so now this present contract is
based on percentage basis and the current price of wheat it was certainly inequitable
to the City; so now this present contract is based on percentage of the crop,
which is a standard percentage that is used all over the country on this type of
land, and the same is also true for the pasture, so we have here pretty much of
a standard lease that might be drawn between any two parties who were, one who
was owning and one who was renting a piece of ground. It does represent a - it
will cost him a considerably larger sum to do this, on the other hand, he did
inform me when he talked to me that he was ready to go to court if he couldn't
work something out because he felt that, as his lawyer read the contract, he was
entitled to do this."
Mr. Olson corrected her to 1973.
Commissioner Cooper continued, "No one wanted to crea'e any hardships
on him as far as his crops and this kind of thing were concerned; so I thought we
were going to work out some kind of an arrangement whereby he could go ahead and
recover whatever kind of crops he had planted, then we would draw up a new lease
agreement and this would be open to anyone who wanted to bid on it. Mr. Hocking
could bid on it, or anyone else could bid on it, but the idea was not to present
any problems for the farmer, and yet the City had to go ahead and use the property."
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "There are several things in this lease
that we wanted in particularly. We felt were absolutely necessary. One is that
he would hold us harmless for any damages that may be caused by city operation.
A number of these things we talked about one night, and all those things are
incorporated in there."
Commissioner Cooper said, "I compared this one with the one that Larry
tentatively, a work lease, from that you drew up in June of 1973 and there wasn't
this much of a deviation, there really wasn't. The only thing I am asking you
about, I am wanting your legal opinion on, is it proper for us as a governing
body to proceed along these lines to go ahead and continue to honor what is
essentially an Airport Authority lease agreement, between the Airport Authority
and Mr. Hocking as far as the time factor is concerned, without permitting this
land to be bid on by anybody else, even though it is owned by the City."
Commissioner Cooper
said, "Well now, I am not questioning the lease
that Larry has drawn up here at
all as far as it being equitable to the person
who is leasing the ground and
the City. I am just assuming that Larry and
everyone has done the standard
thing in this regard. The only thing that I am
questioning is the fact that we
go ahead and continue the lease with this party
for the full period of time, since
the property has changed hands, and is now
under different jurisdiction.
This is the only part that I am questioning."
Mr. Olson asked Mrs.
Cooper, what her idea of a termination date was?"
Mrs. Cooper replied,
"Well, my idea was that when the City of Salina
agreed to purchase this ground
from the Airport Authority then according to the
lease agreement that they had
with the gentleman, they notified him that this
property was being sold. I think
he had 60 some odd days or some -kind of a time
period like this, that he was
supposed to receive notice. If the lease were
cancelled, alright now then no
one wanted to, like I said, create any hardship
on Mr. Hocking. They did not
feel, or at least I don't think the City Commission
felt that the 60 days, this would
have been back in early 172 - summer of 172."
Mr. Olson corrected her to 1973.
Commissioner Cooper continued, "No one wanted to crea'e any hardships
on him as far as his crops and this kind of thing were concerned; so I thought we
were going to work out some kind of an arrangement whereby he could go ahead and
recover whatever kind of crops he had planted, then we would draw up a new lease
agreement and this would be open to anyone who wanted to bid on it. Mr. Hocking
could bid on it, or anyone else could bid on it, but the idea was not to present
any problems for the farmer, and yet the City had to go ahead and use the property."
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "There are several things in this lease
that we wanted in particularly. We felt were absolutely necessary. One is that
he would hold us harmless for any damages that may be caused by city operation.
A number of these things we talked about one night, and all those things are
incorporated in there."
Commissioner Cooper said, "I compared this one with the one that Larry
tentatively, a work lease, from that you drew up in June of 1973 and there wasn't
this much of a deviation, there really wasn't. The only thing I am asking you
about, I am wanting your legal opinion on, is it proper for us as a governing
body to proceed along these lines to go ahead and continue to honor what is
essentially an Airport Authority lease agreement, between the Airport Authority
and Mr. Hocking as far as the time factor is concerned, without permitting this
land to be bid on by anybody else, even though it is owned by the City."
102
Mr. Bengtson replied, "There is nothing that requires you to put it
up for bids. You have a lease here now you can either turn it down or accept it.
I mean it is this simple. You don't have to put it up for bids if you don't
want to. You can negotiate it. It is your decision what you want to do, and
this is what you are going to have to decide. If you don't, perhaps you can
propose something else to him. He can either accept a one year lease or not."
Mr. Olson said, "The lease agreement you referred to Mrs. Cooper
was presented to you on June 18, 1973, also had a termination date of 31 July 1977 it
Commissioner Cooper said, "Mine has marginal notes of March of 1974 on
it, so when we had our discussion about this, we also discussed the fact that the
entire duration of this lease agreement between Mr. Hocking and the Airport
Authority should be changed."
Commissioner Usher said, "I think where you get this date, and I think
you are right is March 1974, because we felt we didn't want to jeopardize any of
the crops he had in there."
Commissioner Cooper said, "This is what I am sitting here saying."
Commissioner Usher said, "And this was the standard termination date.
In the mean time when we did let him know about this, when the attorney advised
him he had a suit and he came back and told us if we couldn't work something out,
he was going to be forced into suing us to force us to keep it. This is when
I think we started to explore with Mr. Hocking and the staff and Larry on what
could be done to correct it, now what they have done here is Mr. Hocking has
made some concessions, quite considerable when you figure the dollar amount
involved, and we would now have a chance to sign a new lease agreement through
1977, which will give him an opportunity to recover some expenses he has got
involved there, at the same time it gives the City a much better break."
Commissioner Usher said, "I think what they have done is told us unless
we do go ahead and put the same termination date as the original lease, that they
want to go ahead and try us in court."
Commissioner Cooper commented, "Okay, then that is the only decision
in front of the City Commission the, do you want to go ahead and continue this
lease until 1977 or do you want to be sued?"
Mr. Bengtson replied, "This is certainly one possibility."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "I think this a fair lease, and I think it has
been negotiated. It will certainly cost the City, even assuming that there is
no law suit, it will still cost the City quite a lot of money, because of the
change in the amount of money in the terms of the lease not to accept this,
and I do feel that the man who leased this from the Airport Authority due to
conditions outside his control has had an unusually rough time trying to get his
crops planted and because of double cropping there one year that, he has been up
against a tough proposition. I think he really is due a little bit of consideration
if we can work this out with him to the termination of this, of the lease he
really thought he had, then it can be re -written in some other way."
Commissioner Usher said, "I think it represents a tremendous compromise
of Mr. Hocking.
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "We are going to make a lot more money."
Commissioner Cooper said, "Well granted, the only changes are really
in the financing of this lease as
far as the
work draft that Larry drew up
originally that we discussed, and
it was my
understanding that we were going
to make kinds of changes if at all
possible,
but it was not my understanding that
we would continue the lease until
it had run
its full term."
Commissioner Usher said, "I think what they have done is told us unless
we do go ahead and put the same termination date as the original lease, that they
want to go ahead and try us in court."
Commissioner Cooper commented, "Okay, then that is the only decision
in front of the City Commission the, do you want to go ahead and continue this
lease until 1977 or do you want to be sued?"
Mr. Bengtson replied, "This is certainly one possibility."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "I think this a fair lease, and I think it has
been negotiated. It will certainly cost the City, even assuming that there is
no law suit, it will still cost the City quite a lot of money, because of the
change in the amount of money in the terms of the lease not to accept this,
and I do feel that the man who leased this from the Airport Authority due to
conditions outside his control has had an unusually rough time trying to get his
crops planted and because of double cropping there one year that, he has been up
against a tough proposition. I think he really is due a little bit of consideration
if we can work this out with him to the termination of this, of the lease he
really thought he had, then it can be re -written in some other way."
Commissioner Usher said, "I think it represents a tremendous compromise
of Mr. Hocking.
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "We are going to make a lot more money."
103
Commissioner Losik commented, "I think what has transpired here
indicates that from here on out we are going to have to keep some records of what
our executive sessions actually arrive at so far as decisions, and as we have
heard time and time again a poor settlement is much better than a good law suit,
so I move we approve it."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "There isn't anything in this agreement
with Mr. Hocking that would preclude that in the event that I think the City has
pending before it a petition for some kind of a target range, there isn't anythin
in the agreement that would preclude that if this target range should materialize
is there?"
Mr. Bengtson replied, "It does provide that in the event that we want
to use any portion of this for a governmental purpose we certainly have the
right to cancel this lease as to that portion, and of course the rent would be
reduced proportionately. If you decide you are going to need some land you
certainly have the right to."
Commissioner Usher seconded the motion.
Mayor Weisgerber called for a vote on the Motion. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
COMMISSION AGENDA
None
PUBLIC AGENDA
THE CITY COMMISSIONERS considered the Salina Sportswear Company
"Resolution of Intent" to issue $1,000,000 principal amount of Industrial
Revenue Bonds to finance certain manufacturing facilities.
Commissioner Losik said, "In the past when we had these coming up on
the agenda we had an opportunity to visit with the individuals requesting this.
Now I know that in the past our negotiation has been very, very rough in trying
to arrive at this land. Now my question here, are we sure in our own mind that
the Company asking these understands fully that it is that our criteria is from
the standpoint of Industrial Revenue Bonds. What I am saying is that I don't
know who had the meeting Wednesday and Thursday or was it Tuesday and Wednesday,
and whether those people fully understand this when they are asking this of us."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "That is probably a good question."
Commissioner Losik said, "I am not opposed, I am always in favor but
I just want to make sure that we have a little smoother sailing in the future
than we have had in the past."
Commissioner Usher.said, "You mean with this particular company?"
Commissioner Losik said, "Yes sir. That is correct. So this is why
I would like to make sure that whoever attended this meeting has some assurance
that those people understood what the city requirements are."
Mr. Olson said, "I will make a statement publicly that we, without
reservation, pointed out to this company the position of the City, what the City
could do and could not do. I can't speak for representatives of the company as
to how they interpreted our statements or what was said, but they did expect
us to spend public money for example for private parking lots, driveways, this
type of thing. We told them it was a violation of State Law and under no
circumstances could this be done. Mr. Boyer, Mr. Bengtson, myself, Mr. Hamele,
Mr. Bengtson and I met with their attorney the next morning. There was a meeting
Thursday afternoon the Chamber of Commerce, Representatives of the County,
Urban Renewal Agency, City, KPL, utility people, Stan Nelson of the Economic
Development representative from the Chamber, met with them.
104
Commissioner Usher said, "I think they are well aware of what we can
do and what we won't do, and I attended that meeting at the Chamber and I think
he had a very good idea that he has reached the end of the rope, we aren't going
to give any more, and I am sure they are going back now and getting ready to
come. We have given them the last ounce."
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner
Usher to adopt a resolution entitled: "WHEREAS, the City of Salina, Kansas,
(the "City") is authorized and empowered under the provisions of the Kansas
Industrial Revenue Bond Act, K. S. A. 12-1740 to 12-1749, inclusive, as amended,
to issue revenue bonds for industrial development purposes", and the following
vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Usher, Weisgerber (5). Nays: (0).
Carried. The Mayor approved the Resolution and it is numbered 3178.
A REQUEST was received from the Central Kansas Alcoholic Foundation,
Inc. for Revenue Sharing Funds in the amount of $22,980.00
Dr. Goering, President of the Foundation, told how the proposed
program would provide two new, much needed, services to the Salina Community.
A Court program, and an intervention, evaluation and referral service for
business and industry.
Mr. Ron Eisenbarth, from Topeka, explained that their program was
funded by the Governor's Committee on Criminal Administration, and will not be
funded by City Revenue Sharing Funds.
Commissioner Usher asked him how it would be funded after that.
Mr. Eisenbarth replied it would be funded through the City General
Fund. He explained their budget figure, and said they have been able to use
more volunteer help in recent years than they had previously.
Commissioner Caldwell asked why they didn't take advantage of their
last year for funding on the Governor's Committee on Criminal Administration.
Mr. Eisenbarth replied they visited with the City Commission and were
advised to make their request for funds this year. He explained the program
sold itself in Topeka and that is the reason they got this answer at this time,
rather than go for the 3rd year of LCCA funding. "The community is sold enough
on the program that they want it to continue."
Commissioner Caldwell asked Dr. Goering why they didn't pursue the
LCCA for first grant?
Dr. Goering answered that he couldn't answer that because he wasn't
sure the funds were still available. If they went this route it would require
20% matching funds. He said this is money the foundation does not have.
Commissioner Caldwell said this can be in "in-kind" services.
Commissioner Losik asked what they plan for the second year for
funding.
Mr. Shepard replied they are thinking of all the courts in Salina.
90% of the cases to be dealt with would come through Municipal Court.
Mayor Weisgerber asked if other cities in the State have this program?
Mr. Ed Shepard said they can't look that far ahead.
They
must get
started somewhere. They had hopes in the past of raising
this
kind
of money but
never could. He said they tried to get it from the United
of money required was more than the fund could spare. He
Fund,
said
but
they
the amount
feel it
is such a good program, and the Topeka experience has been
so
good,
that
eventually it should be put on the General Fund. He said
the
program
has
tremendous appeal to the courts. "Where we get the funds
next
year,
we will
worry about next year. Right now we want to get it started."
Commissioner Usher asked if the Foundation will
deal
only
with people
in Salina?
Mr. Shepard replied they are thinking of all the courts in Salina.
90% of the cases to be dealt with would come through Municipal Court.
Mayor Weisgerber asked if other cities in the State have this program?
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Mr. Eisenbarth replied that one has recently started in Olathe. It
has been in operation about 6 weeks.
Commissioner Cooper asked if they had considered approaching these
private businesses and asking them to financially support this program, as well
as just using public money? What kind of response have you had?
Mr. Shepard said they want to see what we can offer first.
Mayor Weisgerber asked Ron Elwell about agencies supported by the
United Fund.
Mr. Elwell explained that the United Fund is apprehensive about
programs getting along on a 1 year support basis, hoping the United Fund will
pick it up in subsequent years.
Mayor Weisgerber said, the United Fund then, will continue to support
the program as it is right now.
Commissioner Losik said that Salina has done much from the standpoint
of peoples programs. "I know we are trying to get the most out of our dollars
We have many people involved in this, a lot of problems with society as I see it,
is that there maybe wasn't enough preventative measures and we are now peagued
with corrective measures. My feeling would be that there are many problems.
This is peoples tax dollars we are talking about; I would like to see it go
to the people. I move we approve this Revenue Sharing Request in the amount
of $22,980.00 for one year."
Mr. Chuck Husselman said he would like to interject that this is
really a small amount for the value received from it. "We would have to put
very few people back on the right track for them to earn money to way more than
offset the amount spent in the program"
Mayor Weisgerber asked if there is personnel available to properly
do this work?
Mr. Shepard replied, "Our plans are, if we receive approval, to send
the person we have in mind to Topeka for at least a week and let him work right
with them; also to Kansas City to work with a person who has worked right with
the court."
Commissioner Caldwell said, "You are asking for Revenue Sharing which
will only be for one year. Where will you go from there? If you take the LCCA
for a grant you could at least go for three years, and then make an appeal, but
this way you are only going to be funded once under Revenue Sharing."
Mr. Shepard said they want to get started if they are going to do it.
"We have been doing this thing piece meal. We ran a study of the effectiveness
of the Pathfinder House and what it meant to the community, just returning men
back to work. We returned 5 times more in a year in salaries than we received
in contributions from the community. This has been going on 7 years and we
have had people running their legs off trying to do this job for free and working
far into the night for a long time. The judges are calling on us more frequently
because they don't want these people in jail they want them out there being
productive. It is getting to be more than we can handle."
Commissioner Cooper said, "You do receive support from Salina through
your United Fund. I can't believe the City Commission would be willing to turn
you down entirely, but you want to start a fairly new program that you do not
have any source of funding for other than the Revenue Sharing monies from the
City of Salina, and I think we can help you to some extent but I think we also
need some help from other people who are going to benefit from this. I don't
know where you are going to get this, but if the businesses say this is a needed
program, I should think they would be willing to try and cooperate as well as
with the public money. If the courts are saying this is a necessary program
I should think that they would try to utilize some resources that they have
available to them. I don't know what it would be, but I can't believe on just
this short a notice, we just received this request this weekend, that I could
reach a conclusion that I want to totally fund this program out of Revenue
Sharing Funds for just one year."
106
Father Neustrom related they have been involved in alcoholic work here
in the community for nearly 7 years. 'Df all the amount of time, the amount of
effort, the amount of free time the city has received, this is the first time
we have ever approached any kind of governmental organization for any kind of
tax funding of our work at all, and when you see all the possibilities, the
fantastic possibilities that are available here in this city, and knowing that
we don't have the funds to be able to touch the work that needs to be done.
My heart goes out that you will give us this opportunity for the first time
that we have ever asked for it. I think we have proved ourselves in the work
that we have done without funding. We would like the opportunity to see what
we can do with the proper funding of this time to this program. What can be
accomplished will be paid back to the City and the citizens of this city many,
many times over not only in dollars and cents but in human lives."
Mr. Dick worth said he recalls the days when they went door to door
and got $25, $50, and occasionally $100. "We have gone beyond that point. We
need some help so we have something to sell. We need a professional to go out
and sell. Ed is snowed under with his work. We volunteers don't have the time
to go out and do it anymore. We need some professional help and this is the
way we can get it."
Commissioner Cooper asked if they could have a workable program if
they were funded in terms of just the counselor and maybe the office space?
Mr. Eisenbarth said from their experience he doesn't think they will
be able to operate without a secretary, but they might be able to operate with
a part time secretary. He said they may be able to offer these services with
the same amount of people to the nearby communities, maybe the other communities
that are close by and they would help defray expenses.
Commissioner Caldwell asked about his $16,000 budget and asked if that
is for the year.
Mr. Eisenbarth said they have volunteers to help cut down on the
expenses, and thinks the same thing can be done here.
Rev. Stan Rogge of the St. John's Lutheran Church and President of the
Ministerial Association, said there is a tremendous number of lives this
problem touches in the community. "I know how many hours I put in a year
counseling with, and helping families that are related to this problem"
He said they could probably operate on a little less than the request, and still
make a giant step forward.
Commissioner Usher said the thing that concerns him is how they
expect us to make a decision for this kind of money in such a short time. "I
am not arguing that it is a worthwhile project. I am not sold on the business
and industrial program. I am opposed to that because as I read this thing, the
business and industrial areas ought to be willing to support it financially.
What concerns me is why you didn't get LCCA funds."
Mr. Shepard stated he was told by the Kansas Commission on alcoholism
that it took hard cash.
Commissioner Caldwell said, "I want to get the thing underway. I feel
the LCCA would give you a longer time to go. Next year it would be a city
problem. It would require city funding, it would be the only way you could
go after that."
Commissioner Caldwell seconded the motion.
Mayor Weisgerber said if another group came before us who had not had
the experience you -had, no matter how well intentioned they might be, we
certainly would have to hesitate.
Mayor Weisgerber called for a vote on the motion. Ayes: Caldwell,
Losik, Usher. Weisgerber (4). Nays: (0). Commissioner Cooper abstained.
Motion carried.
10l
Commissioner Caldwell said , "I seconded the motion for a lot of
reasons. I wish that between now and the time you get the funding that you
pursue the Governor's Committee and see what happens there, because you may be
missing an opportunity. Maybe you can still come back and tell us you don't
want this, you can get it from them."
Mr. Shepard said they would do that.
A CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE LICENSE Application was filed by Robert G.
Graybeal, d/b/a Rendezvous Tavern, 1012 North Broadway. (New application).
The City Clerk reported the applicant has paid the required fee, and the
application has been approved by the Health Officer, Zoning Officer and the Polic
Department. A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner
Losik to approve the license application and authorize the City Clerk to issue th
license. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher
that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned.
(Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
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