12-10-1973 Minutes24
City of Salina, Kansas
Regular Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
December 10, 1973
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the
Commissioners' Room, City -County Building, on Monday, December 10, 1973, at
four o'clock P.M.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the
Flag and a moment of silent prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Jack Weisgerber, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Robert C. Caldwell
Commissioner Norma G. Cooper
Commissioner Mike Losik, Jr.
Commissioner W. M. Usher
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
Mayor Weisgerber called for the approval of the minutes of the Special
Meeting of November 26, 1973.
Commissioner Cooper said she has a couple of items, "One of them
pertaining to the minutes; the other one is that I wouldn't want to pass up an
opportunity of welcoming home our wanderers from San Juan. I kind of want to
thank you for adding to my educational process. You have given me a better
understanding of the meaning, or the expression, 'travel is broadening', because
you really do look like fun loving fat cats."
Mayor Weisgerber replied, "Interesting comment! What about the minutes"
Commissioner Cooper said, "Okay, if I am not going to get any response
from that. At the botton of page 3, following the discussion that we had
concerning the trash and refuse pickup; we scheduled a meeting on January 7th.
The question is, is that an open or closed meeting?"
Commissioner Usher said, "I made the motion."
Commissioner Cooper replied, "I can read it, my question is, is that
an open or closed meeting?"
Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, just so we understand, because
sometimes we have misunderstandings on this and I know the Commission has met
with staff to review various items in the past at open meetings, as an example,
Revenue Sharing and budget review."
Commissioner Usher said, "I don't think we kept anybody out of Revenue
Sharing."
Commissioner
Usher replied, "I made
the motion and when I made the
motion I was under the
impression that all of
our meetings, except for the
three specified ones, are
open to the news media."
Commissioner
Cooper asked, "Are you
limiting it to the news media?"
Commissioner
Usher replied, "I don't
suppose we can limit it to anybody
when it is published as
January 7, 1974, at 2
o'clock."
Commissioner Cooper said, "Well, just so we understand, because
sometimes we have misunderstandings on this and I know the Commission has met
with staff to review various items in the past at open meetings, as an example,
Revenue Sharing and budget review."
Commissioner Usher said, "I don't think we kept anybody out of Revenue
Sharing."
25
Commissioner Cooper replied, "I didn't suggest that we did, I am just
saying, as an example, we have done this in the past and I just wanted to make
sure this was the same kind of meeting."
STAFF AGENDA
BIDS WERE RECEIVED for water and sewer extensions to Salina, Inc,
John Deere, and School Specialty. (Engineering Project 73-563).
Earth Excavation, Inc. $68,561.37
Wilson Constructors, Inc. 69,603.50
Smoky Hill, Inc. 87,150.50
Stevens Contractors, Inc. 95,294.00
Engineer's Estimate 88,125.00
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher to accept
the proposal of Earth Excavation, Inc., in the amount of $68,561.37, subject to
checking by the City Engineer. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
providing that all applicants for a merchant police license shall file bonds and
liability insurance prior to the issuance of a license; prescribing the amounts,
terms and conditions thereof; amending Section 28-56 of the Salina Code and
repealing the existing section." A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell,
seconded by Commissioner Usher to adopt the ordinance as read and the following
vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Usher, Weisgerber (5). Nays. (0).
Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8322. The ordinance
was introduced for first reading November 26, 1973.
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
providing for the amendment of Zoning Ordinance Number 6613 and the Zoning Distri 1
Map therein and thereby adopted and providing for the rezoning of certain property
within the City and prescribing the proper uses thereof." (Rezoning of Block 1,
Meadowlark Acres Addition Number 2, to District "D" (Local Business District),
requested in Petition Number 3329 which was filed by the National Bank of America).
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to
adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell,
Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber (4). Nays: (0). Commissioner Usher abstained. Carrie .
The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8323. The ordinance was
introduced for first reading November 26, 1973.
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on Petition Number 3378, which was filed by
Bucher and Willis for the Salina Girl Scouts for improvements on the South Park
School Site, and showed the City Commissioners a drawing with the locations of th
proposed improvements, and also showing that the baseball and basketball areas
would still be available. He also explained the cost estimate. Items 1 through
5 will be done by the Girl Scouts, and items 6 through 9, for sidewalk, seeding
the area, planting some trees and shrubs, and lighting, would be assumed by the
City of Salina for approximately $2,056.00.
A motion was made by Commissioner Cooper, seconded by Commissioner Ushe
to accept the City Engineer's report and that the City assume the responsibility
of items 6 through 9.
The City Commissioners and staff had a short discussion on funding the
project.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Mayor Weisgerber said, "I
don't
think there is any necessity of
amending the minutes."
Commissioner Cooper said,
amend it, I it."
"No, it
was a question. I didn't ask to
questioned
Mayor Weisgerber said, "I
think
we have followed this policy pretty well
down the line. I think we are correct
as
far as the minutes are concerned, so
we will approve the minutes of the
Special
Meeting of November 26th."
STAFF AGENDA
BIDS WERE RECEIVED for water and sewer extensions to Salina, Inc,
John Deere, and School Specialty. (Engineering Project 73-563).
Earth Excavation, Inc. $68,561.37
Wilson Constructors, Inc. 69,603.50
Smoky Hill, Inc. 87,150.50
Stevens Contractors, Inc. 95,294.00
Engineer's Estimate 88,125.00
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher to accept
the proposal of Earth Excavation, Inc., in the amount of $68,561.37, subject to
checking by the City Engineer. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
providing that all applicants for a merchant police license shall file bonds and
liability insurance prior to the issuance of a license; prescribing the amounts,
terms and conditions thereof; amending Section 28-56 of the Salina Code and
repealing the existing section." A motion was made by Commissioner Caldwell,
seconded by Commissioner Usher to adopt the ordinance as read and the following
vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Usher, Weisgerber (5). Nays. (0).
Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8322. The ordinance
was introduced for first reading November 26, 1973.
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
providing for the amendment of Zoning Ordinance Number 6613 and the Zoning Distri 1
Map therein and thereby adopted and providing for the rezoning of certain property
within the City and prescribing the proper uses thereof." (Rezoning of Block 1,
Meadowlark Acres Addition Number 2, to District "D" (Local Business District),
requested in Petition Number 3329 which was filed by the National Bank of America).
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell to
adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Caldwell,
Cooper, Losik, Weisgerber (4). Nays: (0). Commissioner Usher abstained. Carrie .
The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8323. The ordinance was
introduced for first reading November 26, 1973.
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on Petition Number 3378, which was filed by
Bucher and Willis for the Salina Girl Scouts for improvements on the South Park
School Site, and showed the City Commissioners a drawing with the locations of th
proposed improvements, and also showing that the baseball and basketball areas
would still be available. He also explained the cost estimate. Items 1 through
5 will be done by the Girl Scouts, and items 6 through 9, for sidewalk, seeding
the area, planting some trees and shrubs, and lighting, would be assumed by the
City of Salina for approximately $2,056.00.
A motion was made by Commissioner Cooper, seconded by Commissioner Ushe
to accept the City Engineer's report and that the City assume the responsibility
of items 6 through 9.
The City Commissioners and staff had a short discussion on funding the
project.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
26
A MOTION WAS MADE by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner Losik
to introduce an ordinance for first reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE prescribing
the corporate limits of the City of Salina, Kansas, including land described in
Ordinance Numbers 8282 and 8310, and repealing Ordinance Number 8267." Ayes: (5)
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on Petition Numbers 3368 and 3376 regarding
the installation of water and sewer lines on East Woodland Avenue: "Petition
Number 3368 - requesting the installation of water and sewer service on Woodland
Avenue. This petition was signed by 6 of the 17 owners, or 35%. These 6 owners
own 600 feet out of a total front footage of 4,075 feet or 15%. This petition
does not have the required number of signers or the required amount of front
footage to make this a valid petition. Petition Number 3376 - protesting the
installation of water and sewer service on Woodland Avenue. The above petition
was signed by 7 of the 17 owners or 41%. These 7 owners own 2,400 feet of of a
total front footage of 4,075 feet or 59%. This petition has the required amount
of front footage signers for the protest to be valid. Therefore, under our
petition laws, this project is protested out."
A motion was made by Commissioner Cooper, seconded by Commissioner
Losik to accept the City Engineer's recommendation and deny the improvement.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
COMMISSION AGENDA
"DISCUSS AND ESTABLISH POLICY FOR HANDLING TIRES AT THE SANITARY
LANDFILL." (Sponsored by Commissioner Losik)
Ordinance Passed:
Number:
A MOTION WAS MADE by Commissioner
to introduce an ordinance for first
Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher
"AN
operation of a new site, we made mention that the problem will become more
reading
entitled:
ORDINANCE appropriating
the existing problem. To date, to the best of my knowledge, Javelin will be in
money from the various funds to pay payroll
and claims
against the City of Salina
have made any provisions to handle their tires. Now, this is not to single out
Saline County, Kansas, for the calendar year
of 1974,
as provided in Kansas
and perhaps Western Auto will start using our site again, and this in no way will
Statutes Annotated 13-2601." Ayes: (5). Nays:
(0).
Motion carried.
our present resolution regulations already prohibit certain types of materials at
Ordinance Passed:
our landfill and it also sets a surcharge on other types of materials being
Number:
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on Petition Numbers 3368 and 3376 regarding
the installation of water and sewer lines on East Woodland Avenue: "Petition
Number 3368 - requesting the installation of water and sewer service on Woodland
Avenue. This petition was signed by 6 of the 17 owners, or 35%. These 6 owners
own 600 feet out of a total front footage of 4,075 feet or 15%. This petition
does not have the required number of signers or the required amount of front
footage to make this a valid petition. Petition Number 3376 - protesting the
installation of water and sewer service on Woodland Avenue. The above petition
was signed by 7 of the 17 owners or 41%. These 7 owners own 2,400 feet of of a
total front footage of 4,075 feet or 59%. This petition has the required amount
of front footage signers for the protest to be valid. Therefore, under our
petition laws, this project is protested out."
A motion was made by Commissioner Cooper, seconded by Commissioner
Losik to accept the City Engineer's recommendation and deny the improvement.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
COMMISSION AGENDA
"DISCUSS AND ESTABLISH POLICY FOR HANDLING TIRES AT THE SANITARY
LANDFILL." (Sponsored by Commissioner Losik)
The City Manager said, "I can probably speak to the subject; not with
any solution. It appears that there is no community in the State of Kansas who
has any ordinance along this line. There seems to be very few elsewhere througho t
the Country that we are able to draw from, with any real experience. We were
told that the tire reprocessing plant in Rochester, Minnesota has a shredder.
Commissioner Losik stated, "I requested this item be placed on the
agenda to implement a policy without further delay. Now, we had a tire handling
problem at the old landfill site, and when we were discussing the opening and
operation of a new site, we made mention that the problem will become more
serious since there will be the new Javelin tire operation that will aggravate
the existing problem. To date, to the best of my knowledge, Javelin will be in
operation right after the first of the year and we have no information that they
have made any provisions to handle their tires. Now, this is not to single out
Javelin, because there is Royal Tire, Bandage (sic) (Bandag), Goodyear, Firestone
and perhaps Western Auto will start using our site again, and this in no way will
be discriminating against these firms or individuals disposing of tires because
our present resolution regulations already prohibit certain types of materials at
our landfill and it also sets a surcharge on other types of materials being
disposed of at our landfill. This will only require us to be reimbursed for the
extra handling required by the City. Now it is important that we resolve this
before we are buried in a mountain of tires and then, in despiration, take some
fast, after the fact, action possibly, and without benefit of choice. Now this
problem has been discussed on numerous occasions. It was discussed when the
Zoning Board of Appeals was reviewing it and a recommendation was made to the
City Manager by them. I also discussed this with the Director of Administration,
(Deputy City Manager) and also with the City Manager, and we were to work up
something and have it on the agenda November 5th. I was just wondering if we
have done anything on it and what we can do about it?"
The City Manager said, "I can probably speak to the subject; not with
any solution. It appears that there is no community in the State of Kansas who
has any ordinance along this line. There seems to be very few elsewhere througho t
the Country that we are able to draw from, with any real experience. We were
told that the tire reprocessing plant in Rochester, Minnesota has a shredder.
1
1
1
2
They do not. We talked to the gentleman who operates the county landfill, in
which Rochester is located, and they were handling 1,000 tires a week. It
increased to about 3,000 a week. They were charging 100 a tire, or $30.00 a
packer load of tires. They raised their rates to $1.00 a tire; and they don't
have any tire problems any more. Pollution Controls, Inc., at Ashakopee,
Minnesota handle the disposal of tires and toxic waste. They have been burning.
They are considering a shredder, or were at one time considering a shredder. The
estimated cost to them was in the neighborhood of $100,000, and they are no longe
considering a shredder.
"We are to►d without too much authenticity that Javelin would estimate
having 50 to 80 tires a day. They do not have a contract with anyone yet.
Royal Tire has 20 to 25 a day.
"We had a count Monday, November 5th through Friday the 9th, a total of
316 tires for that 5 day week. That averages 63 tires a day that are brought to
the fill."
The Deputy City Manager said, "In order to handle this kind of volume
we are talking in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $35,000 as the initial cost of
the equipment, plus the operation and maintenance of it. We do have inquiries
out for various types of equipment, but we have not received replies yet. We
talked to the Javeline people back in November. They couldn't tell us when they
would be open. They thought possibly in April, but they really don't know how
many tires they will have until they get into operation."
Mr. Olson said, "I could relate one more piece of information. They di
touch base with the State Health Department, and there is no problem as far as
they are concerned with burying the tires. This is an acceptible practice from
the standpoint of the State and Federal Health Pollution Act."
Mr. Harris related, "We visited with a number of Kansas communities and
we find that they don't do anything in particular with the tires, other than just
bury them, as we have been. There is no special charges made for them, and they
are not doing any special processing with them. Hutchinson has an old sandpit
where tires can be disposed of, and so far they have been able to stay away from
them by saying we won't take them."
Mayor Weisgerber asked Commissioner Losik about the seminar he attended
at the City's expense, on Solid Waste, in Dallas, Texas, and what is being done
over the Country as a whole."
Commissioner Losik replied, "Shredding. Shredding or quartering, and
the reason for that, of course, is because then they could be buried. Any places
where they were using the complete shredding process, they are still segregated
from their regular shredding of their other solid waste."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "Who was doing this? The people?"
Commissioner Losik replied, "The City, or in some cases, it was at the
source, and in other cases it was at the destination. (... ) But the ones that did
have anything going with them, did not have the problem that would be comparable
in any way shape or form to what we have here, with the number of tires that we
are starting to generate, and the fact that the size of our community then it
meant that when they did bury, they needed to have a way of burying them so that
it would be convenient and wouldn't require any special handling on the part of
the City. Now we know from experience that when we bury these tires, at best the
are a problem, they keep working up. Now even though we have a larger area to
go into now, it also means that from the standpoint to excavate to handle this
extra is going to cost additional money, so any way we look at it the problem
that did exist still exists and will be aggravated by the influx of the new
industry. So it is not something that is going to happen, it has been happening.
Now if we want to bury these, this is fine, but I think this is going to create a
little different situation in the amount of labor that will be involved in the
amount of machinery and the hours it will operate to handle these; so in that
case we have built in, and I don't know how we arrived at this figure, but the
fees to be charged for loads of rock, concrete, or masonary products or loads of
more than 25% rock, concrete, or masonary products shall be double the fees
above established. We recognized this takes extra time and energy and work. We
did arrive at a figure. Maybe we need to do something in this area. How did
we arrive at double the fees for those? What did we use as the criteria for thati"
r L_;
Mr. Olson replied, "There were a couple of other communities that were
doing this, plus the volume that you get from demolition."
Mr. Harris commented, "This goes right along with the fact that we felt
we could discourage this type of debris being taken out there because there is
always a need for that material to be used as fill, instead of using up the landfill.'
Commissioner Cooper commented, "When you contacted other communities
that you say do not accept old tires, or in the case of building materials, you
put an extra cost factor in there, and they don't get too much at their landfill.
Where do these enterprises go with this waste commodity?"
Mr. Harris replied, "In the case of Hutchinson, they go into an old
sandpit."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "Are you going then, would staff say to this
Commission that we should continue with the present practice of tire disposal,
or are you going to propose that maybe we have a combination of an extra cost
factor plus some kind of processing, or where shall we go?"
Mr. Olson replied, "I don't know that we are in any position to make a
recommendation. I think I would certainly not make a recommendation to expend
$30,000 or $50,000 or any number of thousands of dollars for a shredder or for a
sectioning machine at this time. We could end up with the piece of equipment
with virtually no tires to shred or to section. Possibly our rate has taken care
of the larger load. What we are getting in mixed loads at this time, I would not
recommend going to 100, 40(t or $1.00 a tire unless we are amortizing a piece of
capital equipment, which, as I say, I don't think we could recommend at this time
Then you are getting into the cost of administering one tire in a load or ten
tires in a load. You can't catch them all as they come out of the back end of a
packer, for example, and your administration would cost you more than trying to
assess a certain cost per tire. You also are going to throw the additional cost
on the consumer. When you go buy a couple of new tires they will put your used
tires in your truck and you will have to dispose of them. You are going to put
them out for the sanitation crew to pick up, where presently they keep them and
dispose of them for you."
Commissioner Losik said, "One other thing that came up in regards to th
disposition of tires. Phoenix, for example, and we asked Dean to research this,
was using a commercial shredder, and they in turn were using the shredded rubber
as replacement for the aggregate on the slurry seal program for their streets,
and it was very successful and very economical to do so. So this is another one
of the area where tires .. but getting back to here, the number of tires that
were counted in the short period of time indicates that problem still does exist
and recommendations we have had here is that, from what I can gather, is that we
are just going to do nothing and wait until something happens. Well, it is
happening and as far as why one particular company discontinued it, is not known,
but the point being is still that we do have others that are doing it, for exampl
Goodyear, and Firestone are using a commercial hauler here in town to get rid of
these. Now, they are generating quite a number of tires. Now when you take, the
are just two, then you take Royal from the numbers you already have, Bandage (sic
is another one out here. This thing is still, always has and still is a problem
and is getting worse, and we evidently don't want to use or attempt to use any
ingenuity to come up with some solutions and recommendations."
Mr. Olson asked, "Do you have the names of cities that are shredding
or sectioning that we could check with?"
Mr. Harris commented, "Mr.
Losik, considering
the cost of the equipment
and the capabilities of it, I think before
we would have to wait for that information
we can make
to come in."
any type of recommendation
Commissioner Losik replied,
"Gentlemen, we've
been waiting for four or
five months and I am sure if this had
enough priority,
we would have had some
recommendations on it, so that is all
I have."
Mr. Olson asked, "Do you have the names of cities that are shredding
or sectioning that we could check with?"
Commissioner Losik replied, "We had asked. I personally gave Dean some
information regarding checking on it, and this was before the problem of tires.
It was on using the shredded residue from tires in place, for street improvements.
Now have you checked that out with them Dean?"
Mr. Boyer replied, "This was out in Arizona. I had some people in the
asphalt business here locally check on it for me as well. They reported that
this was done for one reason only, that the asphalt plant initiated the program,
not the city. They wanted to try this rubber as an aggregate in the mixture.
If there are more of these companies, I am not sure; but this one in Arizona
ceased the attempt to incorporate the rubber because there is a chemical reaction
that takes place at the time it is heated to incorporate it; in fact, there was a
explosion that killed the company president's son in experimenting with this
process, so they just shut it off right there and forgot about it."
Mayor Weisgerber asked about the legal point of view of requiring a
company to shred the tires, if this would be a discriminitory type of ordinance.
The City Attorney replied, "You can make uniform requirements on an
entire class or a group, but you cannot discriminate within that group. I would
want to do a little research on this. If you say a business would have to shred
tires where an individual owner wouldn't, now I suppose if we did this we would
say, we would not accept them from a business if they were not shredded. I
assume we will get them through the garbage cans at home, because they are going
to make you take them home to dispose of them; or the other way would be by
putting a fee on it, if they are an extra problem to dispose of. Put a fee on
there of $1.00 a tire uniformly across the board. They may go someplace else."
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "Yes, in all the rivers and creeks and
roadside ditches. This is what we are afraid of in this case."
Commissioner Cooper asked, "Aren't we really talking about volume? (...
If you have an enterprise or business that requires disposal of in excess of X
number of tires then you are going to have to find some other manner other than
the landfill, if that is the conclusion that is reached, or else they would have
to be broken up before they would be accepted at the landfill. Wouldn't this
be the responsibility of the business, as opposed to the responsibility of the
City. They would accept them under certain kinds of conditions if there was a
volume of them?"
The City Attorney replied we will get them in the garbage can, rather
than in volume. We will be compounding our problem with the sanitation crews."
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "We have discussed this thing quite a
-Little. We ought to dispose of it one way or the other. Since you put it on the
agenda Mike, do you have a motion you want to make on this?"
Commissioner Losik replied, "Yes, I would like to take and recommend
that until such time as we get any information to the contrary that we establish
some sort of a surcharge on this, and perhaps force one of two things to happen,
and perhaps a combination of two, that the people, or the generators of this
volume will arrange to make other provisions, and the people that do come out
that create the extra workload and the extra handling for the landfill be charged
accordingly, just like some of the other items that we have that we are surcharge g
for."
Mr. Harris commented, "When
thing, where do you stop? We have the
you get into the question of the landfill
surcharge on these people who dispose of
demolition debris, where we
have doubled
the charge. Now we are discussing tires
Let's consider appliances.
They take
up a lot of space in our landfill. They ar
hard to pack and break down.
They are
actually more difficult to get down into
the fill than the tires are.
So what
I am saying is, tires aren't the only
problem that we have in the
landfill."
3o
Commissioner Losik replied, "They are the one that seemed to be the
biggest problem that was discussed before we opened the landfill, while we were
discussing the opening of the landfill, and since they have been'a problem,
they still are a problem and it will be aggravated with the additional tires
come in. Now as far as if you felt the appliances have been such a problem, why
hasn't staff been asking about it to try to resolve it to see if we could do
something about it?"
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher
to refer the report to the City Engineer for a recommendation on December 17, 197
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3380 was filed by Raymond E. Haggart, Trustee, for the
rezoning of Lots 29 and 30, Block 9, and Lot 18, Block 21, Meadowlark Acres
Addition Number 3, from District "A" (Second Dwelling House District) to
District "D" (Local Business District). A motion was made by Commissioner Cooper
seconded by Commissioner Losik to refer the petition to the Metropolitan Planning
Commission. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion Carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3381 was filed by William R. Umphrey for the installatic
of a street light at the intersection of Wesley and Edward Streets. The City
Engineer reported they had an opportunity to check this petition prior to the
meeting and recommended the street light be installed. A motion was made by
Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik to accept the recommendation
of the City Engineer and approve the installation of the street light. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A LETTER was received from Larry Bruzda, President of International
Association of Fire Fighters, Local 782, to discuss Senate Bill 333 and collectiv
bargaining for all city employees.
Mr. Bruzda said, "The reason I brought this up again, was the'last
meeting I attended was back around June 25th, and it was tabled for a 90 day
period by Commissioner Usher, and in bringing this up I would like to first of
all ask Mr. Usher, seeing as how he tabled it, if he has had a change of mind
or a chance to look at this thing from any other perspective?"
Commissioner Usher replied, "No, I haven't changed my mind, and we
haven't heard any more back from your attempts to convince other city employees
and Police Department to come under Senate Bill 333."
Mr. Bruzda said, "We had a meeting at the Central Labor Building of
city employees. All the city employees were invited to attend, other than the
employees that fit into a supervisory category, and at this meeting at the Central
Labor Building, I believe it was during the month of September, we had a showing
of approximately 45 city employees, other than fire fighters; and when the meetinc
was held there were two individuals from the Police Department, pardon me one was
from the Police Department and one was from the Animal Shelter, and out of
everything that was discussed that evening, those were the only two individuals
who felt there was no need for Senate Bill 333 as far as city employees are
Commissioner Usher suggested, "I think what staff needs to do, is get
together with the big generators of the tires including
Javelin and see if they
might not consider the purchase of some equipment that would at least quarter
them, and maybe they could share in the cost and expense, otherwise I think you
are going to have to take the tires as they come."
After more discussion about the landfill, a motion was made by
Commission Usher, seconded by Commissioner Caldwell that we continue to handle
the tires the way we are, and that staff be instructed to continue to search for
ways to eliminate any future problems. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
PUBLIC AGENDA
A REQUEST was received from Bruce Elliott to appear before the City
Commission to present a signing project for his Eagle Scout Community Service.
Bruce Elliott presented his map and recommendation for the signing of
different intersections for directions to the hospitals.
Mayor Weisgerber expressed the appreciation of the City Commission that
he took the interest to do this work.
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher
to refer the report to the City Engineer for a recommendation on December 17, 197
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3380 was filed by Raymond E. Haggart, Trustee, for the
rezoning of Lots 29 and 30, Block 9, and Lot 18, Block 21, Meadowlark Acres
Addition Number 3, from District "A" (Second Dwelling House District) to
District "D" (Local Business District). A motion was made by Commissioner Cooper
seconded by Commissioner Losik to refer the petition to the Metropolitan Planning
Commission. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion Carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3381 was filed by William R. Umphrey for the installatic
of a street light at the intersection of Wesley and Edward Streets. The City
Engineer reported they had an opportunity to check this petition prior to the
meeting and recommended the street light be installed. A motion was made by
Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner Losik to accept the recommendation
of the City Engineer and approve the installation of the street light. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A LETTER was received from Larry Bruzda, President of International
Association of Fire Fighters, Local 782, to discuss Senate Bill 333 and collectiv
bargaining for all city employees.
Mr. Bruzda said, "The reason I brought this up again, was the'last
meeting I attended was back around June 25th, and it was tabled for a 90 day
period by Commissioner Usher, and in bringing this up I would like to first of
all ask Mr. Usher, seeing as how he tabled it, if he has had a change of mind
or a chance to look at this thing from any other perspective?"
Commissioner Usher replied, "No, I haven't changed my mind, and we
haven't heard any more back from your attempts to convince other city employees
and Police Department to come under Senate Bill 333."
Mr. Bruzda said, "We had a meeting at the Central Labor Building of
city employees. All the city employees were invited to attend, other than the
employees that fit into a supervisory category, and at this meeting at the Central
Labor Building, I believe it was during the month of September, we had a showing
of approximately 45 city employees, other than fire fighters; and when the meetinc
was held there were two individuals from the Police Department, pardon me one was
from the Police Department and one was from the Animal Shelter, and out of
everything that was discussed that evening, those were the only two individuals
who felt there was no need for Senate Bill 333 as far as city employees are
31
Commissioner Usher said, "Well, until somebody has some facts and can
prove that there has been intimidation and I can only go by what has been
demonstrated."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I think it is out of the picture for me to bring a
city employee up here and say do you feel you were intimidated. I think this
is out of the question."
Commissioner Usher suggested, "I think he could sign sworn statements
if they are in fact."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "You would know who they were wouldn't you if they
signed the statement? This is the thing Commissioner Usher, you don't realize
the practices that have taken place that give the city employee the idea as to
whether or not he is intimidated. Where do we go in other words as far as all
city employees. Now I am not speaking just as a fire fighter. I am wondering
as far as the other city employees, for instance let's take the Water Department
or Water and Sewerage. If there are employees in the Water and Sewerage Departme
that feel favorably towards Senate Bill 333, how do they have their opportunity
to express this without the fear of reprisal? Now you can sit up there and tell
me there is no fear of reprisal. Well, I can stand out here and tell you there i
I can talk to those employees to find that out, but I will not divulge who these
employees are. The only way that you will find out sir, is by such a secret
ballot vote. Now it might be that the employees of the city would vote it out,
say they don't need Senate Bill 333. 1 would be willing to stake that on a secre
ballot."
Commissioner Usher asked, "Doesn't your union have a City -County
Employees Union of some kind, rather than just fire fighters? Aren't there Polic
Unions? Aren't there other kinds of unions?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "There are other kinds of unions."
Commissioner Usher commented, "And what you are saying is they are
afraid to join because they will be fired from their job? I don't believe that.
No sir, you cannot convince me of that one single bit, because in fact if there
is intimidation going on in this community as far as this particular situation is
concerned, I can't help but feel I would know about it, and I think you are using
that as an abruse."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "No, sir, I am not trying to put up any sort of a
front on this, like I say, this meeting that we held has already established that
fact, and the only problem I have is convincing you without dragging any other
city employees in it."
concerned. Now, when you look at that in a perspective that that was only
approximately 43 people out of the employees, now we are talking minus the fire
fighters, which constitute about 70, it was found that there were department head
who had asked their employees ahead of time if they were going to attend this
meeting. Now, to you as a Commissioner who has not been exposed to the problems
that we have had on the Fire Department as well as some of the other city
departments, you would not recognize this as a sort of intimidation. This was
taken as intimidation by a lot of employees who failed to show up because I
talked with some of the employees who failed to show up to ask them why they did
not; and until - it is a problem Commissioner Usher of putting the cart before th
horse and the employees have no protection to get togehter to even discuss
Senate Bill 333 until it is adopted by the City. But there is a sort of intimida
ion
throughout the other departments as well as the Fire Department and we cannot get
the employees together to give you the picture of their favorability until such
time as they have the security to do it, and it is a matter of what comes first,
the chicken or the egg, and I don't know we might have to ask the Commission for
a secret ballot vote of all city employees. This may be the only way the
intimidation can be removed from the picture as far as the other city employees
feelings on this Senate Bill 333."
Commissioner Usher said, "Well, until somebody has some facts and can
prove that there has been intimidation and I can only go by what has been
demonstrated."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I think it is out of the picture for me to bring a
city employee up here and say do you feel you were intimidated. I think this
is out of the question."
Commissioner Usher suggested, "I think he could sign sworn statements
if they are in fact."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "You would know who they were wouldn't you if they
signed the statement? This is the thing Commissioner Usher, you don't realize
the practices that have taken place that give the city employee the idea as to
whether or not he is intimidated. Where do we go in other words as far as all
city employees. Now I am not speaking just as a fire fighter. I am wondering
as far as the other city employees, for instance let's take the Water Department
or Water and Sewerage. If there are employees in the Water and Sewerage Departme
that feel favorably towards Senate Bill 333, how do they have their opportunity
to express this without the fear of reprisal? Now you can sit up there and tell
me there is no fear of reprisal. Well, I can stand out here and tell you there i
I can talk to those employees to find that out, but I will not divulge who these
employees are. The only way that you will find out sir, is by such a secret
ballot vote. Now it might be that the employees of the city would vote it out,
say they don't need Senate Bill 333. 1 would be willing to stake that on a secre
ballot."
Commissioner Usher asked, "Doesn't your union have a City -County
Employees Union of some kind, rather than just fire fighters? Aren't there Polic
Unions? Aren't there other kinds of unions?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "There are other kinds of unions."
Commissioner Usher commented, "And what you are saying is they are
afraid to join because they will be fired from their job? I don't believe that.
No sir, you cannot convince me of that one single bit, because in fact if there
is intimidation going on in this community as far as this particular situation is
concerned, I can't help but feel I would know about it, and I think you are using
that as an abruse."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "No, sir, I am not trying to put up any sort of a
front on this, like I say, this meeting that we held has already established that
fact, and the only problem I have is convincing you without dragging any other
city employees in it."
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Commissioner Usher replied, "I don't know how you are going to do it
either Mr. Bruzda, because until you do, I just don't believe it is going on."
Mr. Bruzda said, "Let's move on to another angle on this Commissioner
Usher. Now, I am directing my questions to you because of the fact that
Commissioner Cooper and Commissioner Losik have already voted favorably to have
Senate Bill 333 and the other two Commissioners have had past experience with the
fire fighters that I feel might prejudice their decision and you, being the
newest Commissioner on there, I would like to direct my questions to you. Now
one of the things that comes up here is why is it the law suits that is preventin
Senate Bill 333 from being passed in your mind, sir?"
Commissioner Usher replied, "That is one of the reasons, and the other
reason is because you haven't proven to me that you have a majority of our people
that want to come under Senate Bill 333."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "I will prove it to you if you will let us put it
to a secret ballot vote of the city employees."
Commissioner Usher asked, "What prevents you from doing that now?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "I am asking for your permission."
Commissioner Usher replied, "I don't think you have to have commission
approval for that. Correct me if I am wrong, Larry."
Mr. Bengtson said, "The department, if they wanted to vote on whether
or not they wanted to come under it and take a secret ballot, they certainly
could do this if they wanted to."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I would request that all departments have an
opportunity to vote on Senate Bill 333. Like I said, I might come out a loser
on this deal. I might not have had enough percentage to forecast whether or not
they were in favor of it, but I am willing to stake my side on it. You know the
fire fighters led the way as far as asking for Senate Bill 333."
Commissioner Usher replied, "This is correct."
Mr. Bruzda said, "Now at this time I would ask that the other city
employees have a chance to give you an indication of whether or not they are
interested in it, and I can't go to any of these other departments to find this
out sir, We would have to get together with the City Manager's office, somehow
to find this out, and I don't speak directly to the City Manager. I don't speak
directly to the Fire Chief.
Commissioner Usher commented, "That is too bad, Larry."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Yes, it is too bad I have to speak to captains,
lieutenants and everybody in between."
Mayor Weisgerber asked about the wording in the Senate Bill, about the
provision for a vote ahead of commission agreement to come under the provisions.
The City Attorney explained this vote would just be a straw vote to
give the concensus of opinion of the other city employees.
Mayor Weisgerber and Commissioner Usher both commented that this
doesn't resolve the problem of the law suits.
Mr. Bruzda commented that they have been working to resolve them. "I
would like for you to know there have been no less than two other law suits that
the fire fighters wanted to file, and have held back on the hopes of reaching
some kind of communication with the administration of the City of Salina to
establish a better working relationship between us. Now I think it is a fact
that this fire fighters local is going to remain in the City of Salina for years
to come, probably long after you and I are both gone."
Commissioner Usher commented, "I don't doubt that."
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Mr. Bruzda said, "I think it is a fact that the City Commission, the
City Manager, Fire Chief, that these will all remain. It is a matter of learning
to get along with one another and accept each other as they are. This problem of
having to turn around to a judge every time you want to prove a point is getting
to be pretty expensive. Do you, as a Commissioner, know how much money the City
has spent to date?"
Commissioner Usher replied, "No, I don't, Larry. Several thousands of
dollars and I presume the union has spent several thousands of dollars too."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "This is the problem Commissioner. Right now I
know the fire fighters lead the way as far as asking for this Senate Bill 333
and right now we do not have an open line of communication, and right now I can
forecast two more law suits in the next year to come, because of it."
Commissioner Usher said, "Say that again, now."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I can see the possibility of two more law suits in
the next year because of the lack of Senate Bill 333."
Commissioner Usher asked, "Now are you referring to the lack of
communication or anything specific?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Lack of procedure and such procedure is outlined
under Senate Bi 1 1 333. There is no gift for the fire fighters or any other city
employee in Senate Bill 333. There is a channel for communication with
protection."
Commissioner Usher said, "What you are intimating with that statement
then is that you have no line of communication with the Manager, Administrative
Department. What makes you think that if you are under 333 that it would be any
different, because as I understand, you haven't even made an attempt to communica
with the administrative branch."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Sir, we made an attempt and Keith Armstrong went
on suspension. He turned around later and he was dismissed. That was our attemp
as fire fighters local 782 to have an open line of communication."
Commissioner Usher asked when this was?
Mr. Bruzda replied, "That was before Senate Bill 333 was even adopted
by the legislature."
Commissioner Usher commented, "That was several years ago."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Yes, under very much the same circumstances as I
and the other city employees are working today."
Commissioner Usher commented, "You know, I just haven't felt this kind
of turmoil with the other departments, Larry."
Mr. Bruzda asked to move back to the question of the straw vote. "If
the city employees took this secret vote and voted it down, I think that I
myself would at least for quite some period of time, it would be so. I really
look for the State, because of the fact that there are so few municipalities
coming under this, I can only think of Saline County Employees are under it,
Manhattan is under it, Great Bend is under it, just to name a few; but there are
also others that have not adopted it, and I can foresee the same thing happening
here as happened in other states, the legislature takes a look at this thing and
they see the people not coming under it voluntarily so they make it manditory and
I can foresee it being manditory in some situations to make it manditory for
Salina. Now I would hope we don't have to resort to petitioning the people of
Salina. I would hope we don't have to resort to putting pickets around this
building; that we could give this thing other ways to air itself out, such as this
thing. Now you, as Commissioners have set up there and said, at least three of
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Mr. Bruzda said, "I think it is a fact that the City Commission, the
City Manager, Fire Chief, that these will all remain. It is a matter of learning
to get along with one another and accept each other as they are. This problem of
having to turn around to a judge every time you want to prove a point is getting
to be pretty expensive. Do you, as a Commissioner, know how much money the City
has spent to date?"
Commissioner Usher replied, "No, I don't, Larry. Several thousands of
dollars and I presume the union has spent several thousands of dollars too."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "This is the problem Commissioner. Right now I
know the fire fighters lead the way as far as asking for this Senate Bill 333
and right now we do not have an open line of communication, and right now I can
forecast two more law suits in the next year to come, because of it."
Commissioner Usher said, "Say that again, now."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I can see the possibility of two more law suits in
the next year because of the lack of Senate Bill 333."
Commissioner Usher asked, "Now are you referring to the lack of
communication or anything specific?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Lack of procedure and such procedure is outlined
under Senate Bill 333. There is no gift for the fire fighters or any other city
employee in Senate Bill 333. There is a channel for communication with
protection."
Commissioner Usher said, "What you are intimating with that statement
then is that you have no line of communication with the Manager, Administrative
Department. What makes you think that if you are under 333 that it would be any
different, because as I understand, you haven't even made an attempt to communica-
with the administrative branch."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Sir, we made an attempt and Keith Armstrong went
on suspension. He turned around later and he was dismissed. That was our attemp-
as fire fighters local 782 to have an open line of communication."
Commissioner Usher asked when this was?
Mr. Bruzda replied, "That was before Senate Bill 333 ,,as even adopted
by the legislature."
Commissioner Usher commented, "That was several years ago."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Yes, under very much the same circumstances as I
and the other city employees are working today."
Commissioner Usher commented, "You know, I just haven't felt this kind
of turmoil with the other departments, Larry."
Mr. Bruzda asked to move back to the question of the straw vote. "If
the city employees took this secret vote and voted it down, I think that I
myself would at least for quite some period of time, it would be so. I really
look for the State, because of the fact that there are so few municipalities
coming under this, I can only think of Saline County Employees are under it,
Manhattan is under it, Great Bend is under it, just to name a few; but there are
also others that have not adopted it, and I can foresee the same thing happening
here as happened in other states, the legislature takes a look at this thing and
they see the people not coming under it voluntarily so they make it manditory and
I can foresee it being manditory in some situations to make it manditory for
Salina. Now I would hope we don't have to resort to petitioning the people of
Salina. I would hope we don't have to resort to putting pickets around this
building; that we could give this thing other ways to air itself out, such as thi!
straw vote of the city employees. This would be quite a barometer to check this
thing. Now you, as Commissioners have set up there and said, at least three of
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you, that you don't feel the other city employees are interested. Let's give
them a chance, and let's find out.
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "This is not the standard way it is done,
in any industry or any business. The petition to belong to a union or to come
under it comes from the employees, and you say you think the other employees are
afraid to express themselves. This is a little unusual. You have expressed
yourself quite freely, you are still working. How do you answer it? How do you
answer that?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "I answer to it because I already belong to a local
and the other city employees don't, Mayor."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "You are not bothered and neither would they be
bothered and you know it, and I think they know it."
Commissioner Usher commented, "I think if a union wants to organize the
city employees and the Police Department they have every right to come in and
make that attempt, and the City Administrative office could not fire anybody,
they couldn't terminate them for any reason."
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "What you are saying basically is that you
have tried it and failed."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "No sir, I would not consider it a failure at any
point. I had 45 employees that I witnessed at that meeting, and I wouldn't
have gave you a nickel that said there would have been ten there. I have worked
for this city longer than you have and I work amongst the people that we are
talking about. You may be a Commissioner and I may be just another city employee;
sir, but I mingle with other city employees to find out their feelings."
Mayor Weisgerber asked why he couldn't get them signed up?
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Because, I told you sir, there is this intimidatiot
Now, it is not an outright intimidation. It is the employees feeling of
intimidation."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "1 can't buy that at all. We have said from
here, from this bench that they are perfectly free to do this. We have meant it.
I think they know it and I think you know it, and I think your basis of saying
they are intimidated is a front to cover your failure."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Alright, I have already given you the facts that
there were 45 people there and 2 of them were against it. Let's go under the
assumption that there were 43 people there at that meeting at the Central Labor
Building that showed up because they were interested and wanted Senate Bill 333.
Now, if you were to take a straw vote, as Attorney Bengtson has pointed out, if
you came up with 65 or 75 or 80 city employees other than the firemen, who were
interested in it, you would have to think that there was some reason why they
weren't at that meeting, wouldn't you?"
Mayor Weisgerber asked again how many were at the meeting.
Mr. Bruzda replied, "43 that were in favor of it."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "Are you sure there were 43 there?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Yes, sir."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "City employees other than firemen?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Yes, sir, I am sure. (... ) I am not against
putting my cards on the table. Like I said Mayor, they might turn around and
vote that thing down just right down to the last ballot. Now if that is the
way it is, then like I say, you won't have to worry about the fire fighters
coming up and taking time on your agenda, but if they turned around and we got
over 43 votes who are in favor of that, Mayor, then I think it is going to tell
you a little bit about what is going on."
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Mayor Weisgerber said, "We still have the other problem. What about
the law suits. There isn't much point of the city being concerned about how many
law suits you file as long as we keep winning, which we have won everything up to
date, and a city, or an individual for that matter, if he is on the side that is
going to prevail, that is going to come out ahead, I don't think he should be in
a position of being afraid of a law suit, and I am wondering also if that might
not just happen to be the reason that you didn't file those other two suits. It
is quite good liklihood that you simply would lose again since there is no ground
for the accusation."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I can't stand here and promise you another law suit
on the vacation matter that has already gone through district court, right across
the hall here, but I can tell you a vacation proposal was turned in through the
channels and we don't know yet whether that vacation proposal is going to be
accepted. I can tell you the fire fighters are stamping their paychecks and they
are doing it for a reason. I can tell you that if this open line of communicatior
doesn't open up, that we don't stop being treated as second class citizens, that
I am not the only man to make decisions over there. There are a lot of other
fire fighters, and you may very well find yourself back into court going through
another vacation law suit, and tills is lust one item here. I am not here
threatening, I am here seeking for solutions."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "I think what I am saying is that it doesn't
make much difference to us in a way how many law suits you file as long as we
are correct. So far as communications are concerned, you have communications
through correct channels, if you care to use it."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "You are right, we do have communications with no
protection."
Mayor Weisgerber asked what he calls protection.
Mr. Bruzda replied, "I call protection - I cannot help but look back
at the Keith Armstrong matter. Now you have got to forgive me here, but I had a
man go to city hall to represent me, I don't want the same thing to happen. I
don't want no more law suits."
Mayor Weisgerber and Commissioner Usher said this is before their time.
rayor Weisgerber commented, "The courts upheld that there was more
involved in Keith Armstrong than union activities, so don't say Keith Armstrong
lost his job because of union activities. Had this been the case, the courts
would have ruled against us, not for us."
Mr. Bruzda said, "The court, as we have found out, only rule on legal
matters. They don't rule upon moral matters. We have found out that there was a
lot of the Keith Armstrong case that our attorney, not through any wrong
intentions of his own, failed to get the information that we had available. I
assure you it will come out under the next case coming up in front of the Federal
judge, Judge Temple. Now you are only going to win so many and then the odds are
going to catch up to you and you are going to lose a little bit. I kind of think
this next case is going to be one that tells the story. These local judges that
work for cities and work right across the hall here, I kind of think they favor
the cities when there is no clear cut line to go to. I look for a different type
of opinion from the Federal judge. Now I might be all wrong, and I'll eat my hat
any time it is necessary."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "You better get one that is edible."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I'll do it; but we are talking about city employees
here Mayor and really I think that this straw vote deal that we are talking about
it can't hurt anything. Let's find out how they feel about it. I am telling you
that I heard some city employees that feel one way and you say no they don't
feel that way. Let's find out, sir."
Commissioner Caldwell said, "I would like to say a word. I think it wa
in 1969 or 1970 this item came up and a questionnaire was sent out to the city
employees asking if they were in favor of organizing, and it came back they did
not want to. I don't know the exact date, but I do know the questionnaire went
out. You are the aggressor as far as I am here, and you are the only one talkin ,
but you are the aggressor for the union. Now have you been intimidated? We know
you are for it, you said the others you want to expose. Have you been intimidate ?"
36
Mr. Bruzda replied, "I have been intimidated in various ways."
work ng." Commissioner Caldwell asked, "Well, in which ways? You are still
Mr. Bruzda replied. "I hope to be working."
Commissioner Caldwell said, "I think you will continue to work, but I
mean what about the intimidation?"
Mr. Bruzda said, "You can't compare me with other city employees.
You can't put me or any other fire fighter who belongs to local 782 in the same
category as any other city employee."
Commissioner Caldwell asked, "Well, are you so different from the other
city employees?"
Mr. Bruzda replied, "There is a fine technical line drawn there if
someone who belongs to a labor union, in the case such as the fire fighters do,
in what rights they have as union members, and the other city employees who do
not belong to .. Mr. Bengtson can probably tell you that there is a technical
line there between a union and a non-union member of the city government."
Mr. Bengtson replied, "I can tell you that there is absolutely no
difference between the union member and the non-union member. Every city employe
has the right to organize. They have the right to join the union if they want to
and by the same token they have the right not to join the union; and as far as
the Keith Armstrong matter, our courts upheld that he was not fired because of an
union activities, he was fired because -- for just cause, and this is a closed
matter."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I would like to clarify that. We are talking of two
different things Mr. Bengtson. We are talking of the city employee who has
protection of a union and we are talking about a city employee who does not
belong to a union and who does not have any protection of a union."
Mr. Bengtson replied, "In the City, a union employee has no more
protection than a non-union employee. The fact that you come up here and threate
us with law suits is certainly not going to impair us in any way from taking the
same disciplinary action against you or any other member of the union as we would
against a non-union member. The fact that you come up here and say you do this
or we are going to sue you, certainly has no bearing whatsoever, or no protection
for you the fact that you belong to a union."
Mr. Bruzda said, "Mr. Bengtson, I don't believe I came up here to
threaten you. You or the Commission. Would you please rephrase that?"
Mr. Bengtson said, "Yes, and I am not here to argue with you. I am
going to say one more thing and then I don't think that this Commission is on
trial by you or the members of the union here tonight and I would suggest they
close it off. But you came up here and you said this, and if this isn't
intimidation, I would like to know. You told this City Commission unless you
adopt Senate Bill 333 you can expect 2 more law suits filed against you next
year. Is this not correct?
Mr. Bruzda replied, "I said it is very possible."
Mr. Bengtson said, "Well certainly if that is not intimidation, I
would like to know what it is."
Mr. Bruzda replied, "Well sir, I think it is kind of forewarning. I
don't know how else you could say it. I am telling you there is a problem. I
don't think it is a matter of coming up here and saying you do this or else, but
the Commission has already indicated to the fire fighters, you drop your law
suits and we will be a lot easier to talk to. Now you can look at that from
both sides of the table. I'll get along with the Commission, I'll ask the fire
fighters to do everything they can to get along with this City Commission. I
have asked it in the past. I would like to feel that I have been instrumental
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in stopping some legal actions that might have been brought against the city.
I would like to feel that I am doing everything possible to expedite the
settling of this last remaining law suit against the City of Salina, because law
suits are good for no one. They cost the City over $20,000, was the last figure
I heard. It cost the fire fighters over $11,000 that I know of and one one
comes out ahead in a deal like that. No one does."
Commissioner Usher said, "If you can prove to me that we have a
majority in this community of city employees, firemen, and policemen that want to
come under Senate Bill 333, then I will be interested in examining it; but you
haven't proven that to me, and you can go out and you can hold organization meetir
and no body can do anything at all to you and nobody is going to lose their job
if they join a union, nobody is going to lose their job if they go out and listen
to a meeting. You can have a meeting here as far as we are concerned. We don't
care. And you are not and these people shouldn't feel they are being intimidated.
Now you talk about the chain of command, and you are afraid people are going to
lose their jobs because they come and talk to the manager is nothing but a mis-
statement on your part. It is not true, and I am sure that this Commission, if
they found out an employee was discharged because they came up through the chain
of command and everything using the personnel manual and was fired because of
that, I think this Commission would probably look at who fired him and would do
something about it. Now you don't fire people unless you have just cause and I
don't think anybody in this community of city employees should fear that."
Mr. Bruzda said, "I move back to my original request. Would there be
any harm in letting the other city employees have a secret ballot vote on this
matter to get this a chance to use as a barometer as to the feelings of the city
employees?"
Commissioner Caldwell said, "In your September meeting you said you had
a meeting with 45 people there. You failed in your efforts to get this, what
you are asking us to give you. You are the one that is going to have to be the
pursuader."
Commissioner Losik said, "I would like to say one thing, everybody else
had a say, I would like just a little bit. I think we got off on to a hard nosed
deal in regards to unions and non -unions and I don't think that is what the issue
is here tonight. I think the issue was brought out by KSAL in their editorial
of June 28th - that it is not the litigation or a union, and the way it ends up
in here, the whole editorial is available to anybody, but Senate Bill 333 is
what we are talking about, could go a long way to easing the tension and building
for a harmonious relationship in the future, and KSAL thinks that might be more
important than the differences of opinion today; and this is what we have, a lot
of differences of opinion here today. I might refer also to the League of
Municipalities Personnel Services Bulletin in the August 1973 issue, the title
is handling public relations, labor relations is no job for an amateur. Now
they go in here and they state about public relations and what the public
employee is, now bear in mind this is a very positive article here, and it also
goes into telling about what happens when people do or don't do certain things,
and what the trend is. One item for example, and this is stated in here is
management by itself or the unquestionalbe soverignty of city hall is about over.
The number of Kansas Public administrators willing to admit to this is increasing.
Now city employees are also voters and taxpayers, in short, they are citizens.
Now going to the September 1973 - same personnel services bulletin that goes into
effect that tells the implementation of Senate Bill 333, or KSA 75-4321 which it
is, and it also comes out with a very, very enlightening thing here, it is
important to know that a municipality does not need to wait for its employees to
organize and request recognition. Some cities, for instance, have elected to
come under the law even though there is no apparent activity among employees to
create or join an employee organization. Now it goes on to say, and this is
based, and this is based on the fact that the evidence is very solid to support
the view that municipal officials still rate labor relations as one of the top
priorities demanding local attention. Not I know there have been many
personalities gotten into this thing, and this is what I think the whole problem
is. I don't know how we are going to back each other out of the corners we are
backed into. I wish we could look at it the way KSAL suggested that we look at
it as a way of easing tension and even if there wasn't one employee asking for
this thing, I think the League of Kansas Municipalities based on the overall
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trend of the cities, the counties, school boards and everybody else is recognizin
that sooner or later we are going to come into it. Now they also state ideally
public officials and administrators should look ahead and attempt to prepare
themselves to meet problems before they become crises. Unfortunately the ideal
is too seldom realized, yet public officials do recognize the need to plan for
utility expansion, street improvement and recreation. Is the public employee or
his needs less important? So I would like to have us see if we can't have a
little cooling off time here and look at this thing other than from a personality
standpoint, from a union standpoint. The point today is not asking us to recogni e
a union or anything else, the point is to see if this city shouldn't take and
move ahead as this city on the move is supposed to be doing, and recognize that WE
are going to have to sooner or later come under these type of tyings, and work
into it, because the worst thing that can happen is, we are stuck with it for a
year. We are only stuck with it for a year. Once an election has been made to
bring the public employer under the provisions of this act it continues unless
recended by a majority vote of all members of the governing body. No vote to
recend shall take effect until the termination of the next complete budget year
following such vote. One year trial period wouldn't hurt us. We are not locked
in to where we cannot back out and this might, this just might be the answer and
maybe we can get away from the things that seem to be the stigma here, the law
suit, the union, I don't think this is the question at all. I think it is a way
of easing the tension and building for better communications, and if it doesn't
work we are no worse off than we are now, because we can vote it out again,
just as easily as we voted it in. I have nothing to say."
Commissioner Caldwell said, "I would like to say one other thing about
Senate Bill 333. The City Commission was sued before they had a Senate Bill 333.
Right? So Senate Bill 333 had no matter on any legal matter. The City was sued
before anyone even thought about Senate Bill 333, so you would sue regardless of
Senate Bill 333 if you felt that way.' I move that - I don't know what you want t
do here, but let's stop what we are doing - to table it or whatever you want to d
with it."
After a short discussion about the motion, Commissioner Losik moved
that we table it for 60 days, and "I'll personally put it back on the agenda
in 60 days."
Commissioner Caldwell said, "Now that privilege was Mr. Usher's;
however, do you want to drop out of that picture or do you want to continue to
have that privilege. I mean you are the one that mentioned it before."
Commissioner Usher commented, "Oh well, we have forgotten all about
protocol and things like that, go ahead."
Mayor Weisgerber asked, "Do you want that time limit in, Bill, or
do you want it longer?"
Commissioner Usher replied, "I don't think 60 days are going to make
any difference."
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "I don't really either. I think it just
about as well be tabled indefinitely until times change, or unless we get some
different indication, either from the employees or from the law suit."
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Caldwell.
Ayes: Caldwell, Cooper, Losik, Usher (4). Nays: Weisgerber (1).
Motion carried.
Mayor Weisgerber commented, "I think it should just as well be tabled
indefinitely until we get some different indication of the feeling of the
employees or until there is a change in the law suits. I don't think we are
going to change our minds."
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Commissioner Losik said, "Jack, what you are saying is just again is
showing what has been happening here. In good faith we stated that we would
bring it back in 60 days. Gentlemen that 60 days is 22 months past. If we
didn't want to do anything, we should have brought it back then or delayed it
again; but this is what is happening - it gets lost in the shuffle."
Mayor Weisgerber said, "Alright, but the reasons that we are not going
with Senate Bill 333, if we are going to stay with the reasons we have given,
then there is no use bringing it back up until the reasons change, it doesn't
matter whether it is 60 days or if it takes 6 months, or if it takes whatever it
is until what we have said in effect is that until there is a change in the
attitude of the city employees or a change in the law suit situation, we are
not going to go with it. Now if those don't change within 60 days, we are
wasting our effort to fight the battle all over again. Anytime a change comes
in those things then is the time it should be reconsidered, but this is exactly
what we have said; but the motion is made and passed."
Mayor Weisgerber announced that there is one more item to be considered
which needs to be added to the agenda, and that is for the issuance of Industrial
Revenue Bonds for Wyatt Manufacturing.
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner Usher
to add the item to the public agenda and act on it accordingly. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Mr. Tom Hampton, representing Wyatt Manufacturing, Inc. asked that the
ordinance be introduced for first reading for the issuance of $500,000 Industrial
Revenue Bonds.
Commissioner Losik asked Mr. Hampton about his letter of December 5,
1973, :'regarding this matter, where you had asked for discontinuance or
modification of existing policy. This is no longer your desire?"
Mr. Hampton replied, "The question really is whether the option price
should be determined by the reference to the tax exempt nature of the bond issue
where the proceeds of the bonds are going to be used for substantial improvements
Mr. Bengtson explained, "I think what Mr. Hampton is saying is, 'we
will abide by the policy guidelines what you now have in existence, however we
would like for you to reconsider them and change them, but if you don't, we will
still abide by the old guidelines'."
A motion was made by Commissioner Losik, seconded by Commissioner
Caldwell to intorduce an ordinance for first reading authorizing the issuance of
$500,000 Industrial Revenue Bonds for Wyatt Manufacturing Company. Ayes: (4).
Nays: (0). Commissioner Usher abstained. Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed:
Number:
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Caldwell, seconded by Commissioner
Losik that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk