12-22-1975 Minutes?16
City of Salina, Kansas
Regular Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
December 22, 1975
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the
Commissioners' Room, City -County Building, on Monday, December 22, 1975,
at four o'clock p.m.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the
Flag and a moment of silent prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Robert C. Caldwell, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Keith G. Duckers
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
Commissioner W. M. Usher
Commissioner Jack Weisgerber
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of December 15, 1975, were approved
as printed.
STAFF AGENDA
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled.. "AN ORDINANCE
appropriating money from the various funds to pay payrolls and claims against
the City of Salina, Saline County, Kansas, for the calendar year of 1976, as
provided in Kansas Statutes Annotated 13-2601". A motion was made by Commissioner
Usher, seconded by Commissioner Simpson to adopt the ordinance as read and the
following vote was.had: Ayes: Duckers, Simpson, Usher, Weisgerber, Caldwell (5).
Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the Ordinance and it is numbered 8465.
The ordinance was introduced for first reading December 15, 1975.
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
providing for the examination, licensing and regulation of all persons engaged
in the installation, repairing, alteration, renewal and use of all electrical
wiring for light, heat or power and all other electrical equipment, appliances
and devices, air conditioning, heating equipment or plumbing in or on a mobile
home; establishing Mobile Home Contractors, Master Mobile Home Craftsman,
Journeyman Mobile Home Craftsman, and Apprentice Mobile Home Craftsman; amending
Article XIV of Chapter 9 of the Salina Code and repealing said original Article
XIV of Chapter 9".
A letter was received from the Building Code Advisory Board informing
the City Commission it had reviewed the proposed Mobile Home Craftsman ordinance,
and recommends the ordinance be adopted with the insurance requirements raised to
a minimum of $300,000 per occurrence and $100,000 property damage for all Mobile
Home Craftsmen.
A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner
Duckers that the ordinance be adopted, with Section 9-429 amended to read
'...bodily injury and liability insurance for the minimum amount of $300,000
limit per accident, as well as property damage liability insurance in'the
minimum amount of $100,000 per accident...' The following vote was had:
Ayes: Duckers, Simpson, Usher, Weisgerber, Caldwell (5). Nays: (0). Carried.
The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8466. The ordinance was
introduced for first reading December 15, 1975.
THE COMMISSIONERS considered a contract with Woods and Durham for
the audit for the year ending December 31, 1975.
Commissioner Duckers suggested the Commission consider the possibility
of receiving bids from several auditing firms in Salina, for the city audit, in
keeping with the policy as far as the Engineering bids and equipment. "I can't
see why we can't at least have the City Manager interview and receive some sort
of an estimated cost from the auditors rather than do it the way it is being done,
where it is has been given to one firm for four, five, or six years in a row. I
think we should consider this each year on its own, a bid from the accounting firm ."
Commissioner Weisgerber said, "Auditing firms will not bid, as such,
they are not like a regular contractor. They will make a proposal, but they
expect you to either accept or reject their proposal, and if you reject it
move on to someone else. Architect fees, auditing fees, and some engineering
fees, and this sort of thing are not to be bid from a professional point of
view."
Commissioner Duckers said, "Perhaps the term bid is not what I should
be using, but I feel that we could receive a proposal from them similar to the
one we have received and have before us. I think that all eligible firms, or
all accredited firms, whatever the criteria is that we use in determining
whether they can do the audit for Salina should be asked to make a proposal
to the city each year and then we can accept or reject the one that we wish."
Mr. Olson commented, "I was merely going to comment to this end and
that is, auditors in the past have told us that they would prefer a commitment
that would extend beyond the one or two years. Now the City Commission, a number
of years ago, 10 or 11 years ago, went with the idea of making an award to the
auditing firm for a five year period. That is, not award the contract to a firm
for five years, but, as long as the proposals were considered to be within
reason to give that firm five consecutive years of business, in that the first
year, and we can understand why, they do not stand to make probably any profit
the first year. The second year there is possibly some profit in the activity,
and thereafter there should be a reasonable profit, or at least an acceptable
level of profit for the firm. I would hesitate to see us go on an annual
reshuffling of the auditing firms, Keith, in that this could then require an
expenditure larger than is really necessary. As to your point of bidding,
I think auditors in the past have said this is a violation of ethics. I am
told however, and I do not know precisely what communities are following this
practice today, I am told there are some communities who do receive proposals
and the auditing firms in those towns do submit proposals."
Commissioner Duckers said, "But if an auditing firm wanted to propose,
that if they were given some assurance over a given period of years, two or three
years, they would do it for a certain amount, that would be a factor to be
considered; but just because they got it five years ago and say we are going to
go for five in a row doesn't seem to me to make sense particularly in view
again of our policy that one Commission cannot bind another, and if this
decision were reached five years ago there weren't too many around. I guess
2/5 of us were here then."
Commissioner Usher commented, "Kennedy and Coe had it for five years
in a row, this will make the fifth year for Woods and Durham, perhaps with the
idea in mind, and they are under the gun right now. I don't think you could get
a proposal if you had to between now and the end of the year, circulate a letter
to the accounting firms and tell them this is the time we are going to review new
auditing firms and what are your fees for next year."
Commissioner Weisgerber said, "I think we should probably go with the
way we have it and then next year would be a normal time to make the change anywa ."
anyway."
Mr. Olson explained, "We have to this year go real fast because cash
has to be counted for at the close of business December 31st."
Commissioner Duckers asked, "You don't feel that there would be time
for any of the other accounting firms in town, other than the one who has submit
a proposal, to make a proposal before the end of the year'"
`? 18
Mr. Harrison commented, "In the past, the firm which had the audit
contract has worked on this during the month of December, of course they have
to count the cash on hand the last day of the year...."
Commissioner Duckers said, "We are going to have another meeting before
the end of the year."
Commissioner Usher said, "I don't think the fee is out of line."
Commissioner Duckers said, "No, I am not questioning that, I am just
questioning the procedure. I think their fee is completely within reason,
reviewing what has happened over the past ten years."
A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner
Weisgerber to grant the audit for 1975 to Woods and Durham and instruct the
staff to secure the proposals for 1976. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission regarding
Petition Number 3501 which was filed by the City Planning Commission for the
repeal of Zoning Ordinance Number 6613, as amended, and the adoption, in its
place, of the Proposed Zoning Regulations and Zoning District Map.
C. L. Clark, Attorney, was present and read a prepared statement:
"I appear here on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce of the City of Salina, a semi-
public body, myself and other concerned and interested citizens.
"Section 12-708 Kansas Statutes Annotated, requires that any general
zoning ordinance must: (i) describe the boundaries of all zones defined in the
ordinance or (ii) be accompanied by an official map (that is one instrument) upon
which such boundaries are fixed and depicted. I, and I am informed others, have
asked for such a map - none has been made available.
"Additionally, the suggested ordinance purports to establish flood
plains districts. It is the plain legal import and requirement of Sections 12-707
and 12-734, et seq, Kansas Statutes Annotated, that the boundaries of these
districts be precisely defined or depicted upon a map. (One map)
"The suggested ordinance does not comply with applicable law as
presented and it is not in a condition conducive to developing a competent
judgement with regard thereto. Zoning, if not imposed by careful legislative
consideration, is considered confiscatory in law and in fact.
"We respectfully suggest, in the public interest, that this Honorable
Body require the preparation of the demonstrative map so that they are available
for public use after notice to the Manager of the Chamber of Commerce. We will
want a minimum of twelve (copies) of each of the flood plains and the zoning map.
"We also want twelve copies of the present zoning map (ordinance).
"Subsequent thereto, we will want, and we are sure you will want,
three weeks to evaluate the affect of the zoning districts on existing land and
establishments. (We are certain that we want such time.)
"When the maps are available for said time, we suggest, in the
interest of concentrated time utilization, that first the Commission, after
due public hearing, determine whether (or not) it is to be the legislative
policy of this City to depart from the 50 years of history of perpendicular
(or pyramid) zoning and adopt a mixture of horizontal and (pyramid) zoning.
If, after due time and public hearing, the Commission, in its deliberations,
concludes to give further consideration to a mixed horizontal and pyramid zoning
concept hearingsshmuld be had for considerating of the many, many amendments to
be proposed that must be considered by this Body and the general. public.
"We make these requests because on the state of the record we are
unable to intelligently and competently fully evaluate the detrimental impact
of the change in zoning concepts and to communicate in demonstrable fashion,
the resulting problems confronting you, the City and its inhabitants."
219
Sherry Denton, Land Use Chairman for the League of Women Voters of
Salina, was present. She said, "The League is concerned about the time table for
consideration of the proposed zoning ordinance. We feel that substantial changes
have been made in this plan following the ,public hearings held by the Planning
Commission. The public workshop at 2:00 p.m. this afternoon was the first
opportunity for many citizens to hear a discussion of the revised plan in its
entirety. Because of the impact on all citizens, the League feels that it is
essential that a reasonable period of time be allowed for citizens to evaluate
these revisions, formulate an opinion and to express their views to this Commissio
We urge the City Commission to insure that adequate time is allowed for constructi
informed comment from the community."
Bill Scholl said he was present at the 2:00 p.m. meeting and he said he
is under the impression that part of the new zoning law is that if a person owns
a home and they rezone it as industrial, he is embarred from ever causing any
improvements.
Commissioner Simpson replied it was covered this afternoon in Section
9.4-10, page 88. We were talking about if you have a house and it is some other
zone and you...
Mr. Rawlings said, "In the ordinance, and it has been in the ordinance
since May, 1973, when this was first proposed, there is a section immediately
preceeding the one Mr. Simpson referred to which says, 'non -conforming residential
uses, and from the very beginning that statement has been in there which indicates
that any structure which is devoted to residential uses and which is located in a
commercial or industrial district, may be remodeled, extended, expanded and
enlarged; providing that after such remodeling, extension, expansion or enlargemen
such structure shall not be used to accommodate a greater number of dwelling units
than it accommodated prior to any such work'; and if that didn't cover it, then
the section that you quoted would."
Commissioner Usher asked if Mr. Rawlings cared to respond to the Chamber's
request for 12 copies of the present zoning map. He said the proposal refers to
the flood plain information as what we are going to use as far as the flood plain
is concerned, so it is available.
Mr. Clark replied, "That is not correct. There are two zones in the
flood plains and they are not defined as I understand it. If they are defined
they are undecipherable. The law requires they be defined. It has to be on a
single map. Under the law, the zoning map you must be able to look at and see
what the affect is on the community."
Commissioner Usher asked if we have a map?
Mr. Rawlings replied they do. "We have a map which shows the location
of all the zones that are proposed, as well as the flood plain district. The
reference that you made is to a particular section in the flood plain portion of
this ordinance, which does say the Engineering criteria in those two reports
supersedes the actual location on the maps, in the need of any clarification and
interpretation with it, but they are identified on the set of maps."
Commissioner Usher asked about the maps and if they are big or if there
several of them?
Mr. Clark said, "Every zoning ordinance is supported by an official map
depicting the districts defined. Every ordinance. We have not been able to get
one. And I don't know how you can evaluate the system with fragments of maps.
You need a map so that you can demonstrate the volume of spot zoning being
instituted and a lot of other deficiencies in selecting uses. Many, many of them.
Mayor Caldwell asked if these map will be made available to the Chamber
upon request.
Mr. Rawlings replied they would not. He explained there are 80 or 90
pages in each set of maps. "The quotation that Mr. Clark gave you out of the Sta
Statutes goes on to say that 'or may provide for the incorporation by a reference
in such ordinance to an official map upon which such boundaries shall be fixed';
and this is what we have done with the set that we had available from the time
of the very inception of this hearing process."
220
Commissioner Usher said, "We don't have anything that you can haul
downtown and study, C. L."
Mr. Clark replied, "It is required by law, as to both the zoning and
the flood plain. There is no way legislatively you can determine the propriety
of a system of zones without knowing what they are, it would be an arbitrary
decision on your part to adopt an ordinance specifying zones that you don't
even know where they are or we can't see. Frankly the maps that they have
are full of erasures, interlineations, comments, and there is no way of telling
where part of them are located. It is deficient as a matter of law. I think
Mr. Bengtson will verify that, the law is as clear as it can be. This official
should be presented to the Commission and to the public."
Mayor Caldwell asked Mr. Rawlings if these would be made available
if they came to his office.
Mr. Rawlings replied, "They have been made available, and Mr. Clark
has viewed them on several occasions. They have been made available from the
very beginning, the changes that he mentions were made as a result of requests
from generally the business men at the hearings."
Commissioner Usher said, "What I am trying to get at here, we want
to be fair and we want everybody to have the opportunity that hasn't had the
opportunity to know what is in this proposed zoning regulations, but what you
are asking us to do is impossible. We have got 90 pages of maps and we can't
give you 12 copies of them."
Mr. Clark repeated, "Mr. Commissioner, the law requires a map to be
a part of the ordinance. The portion he read requires a map. State Law
requires a map on districts, flood zones. Now there isn't any way for you to
evaluate the effect of that requirement without seeing it. How are you going
to go through 90 pages of maps when you can't tell where they are. There is
no way you can do it."
Mr. Bengtson said, "I would state this, and I am not familiar with
what maps we have because Mr. Barta has been working with the Planning Commission
so I am not familiar with what maps or what descriptions they have of the
boundaries of this. I would agree with Mr. Clark 100% that we must in our
zoning ordinance have either a map or a metes and bounds description of the
property to be effected, and we must have them on file here where they are
available for inspection. We are not obligated to furnish anybody with copies
of them, but they must be available where they can be inspected. I would think,
again here you get into a matter of legal semantics as to whether a map, or
maps; however I am sure that legally the map must be sufficiently clear
so that if I, as a property owner, come down here and ask what is my property
going to be in what type of a zone, that I can be shown exactly what zone I
am in. If it is so indefinite as to not inform me as to what zone I am going
to be placed in, I would say it would be legally deficient. I am not here to
make a judgement whether they are or they aren't because Mr. Barta has been
working with the Planning Commission, but we do have to have either a map
or a metes and bounds description clearly defining these areas and be
available for inspection by the general public. We are not obligated to
furnish anyone with copies but they must be available for inspection."
Mr. George Etherington was present and said, "My nervousness is
not from getting ready to speak, it is I find that I am the only one back
here that is for this ordinance. My neighbors, friends and my banker and
everybody, but nevertheless for 25 years I have called them like I have
seen them and I am not going to hesitate to do it this time. I feel that
Salina needs this ordinance, it has needed it for a long time. Even the little
town of Abilene over here with 7,000 population has got a more up to date
zoning ordinance than we have here. If everyone would keep in mind that
zoning is only a tool of planning, there are many other tools we use along
with zoning, I think that this would help everyone understand, that we are at
least 25 years behind in our zoning applications. We had that little change
here in '62, and some amendments which is the same thing that we had in '51;
but actually I have studied the entire zoning ordinance. At one time I was
chairman of a group to study and make recommendations, and we did make some
20 recommendations which were adopted. Most of them were adopted. I do want
to make it plain that I represent no group today, only myself, and I do urge
you to adopt the procedure in this ordinance."
221
Mr. Virgil Lundberg, representing Salina Incorporated, was present and
said, "We second wholeheartedly what Attorney Clark said. We have attempted to
several times obtain the same things and we are told there is one copy available,
or two copies. We are all composed of businessmen who need to be at our
businesses when we would like to have got together in the evening of being able
to take something back to our director's meetings. This has not been done. We
have some correspondance from the City that I won't go into. I think the best
compliment we had was they called us had private interests, and I say that is
right. Our private interest is a fullfillment of the future of Salina, and anoth
time we were told we were a private group and a few things like that. We
respectfully request that Salina, Inc. directors be furnished at least enough
copies so we can study them at a director's meeting as other than some certain
room here in the Courthouse at a designated time."
Mayor Caldwell asked Mr. Lundberg if he had been down to the City to
ask for those maps?
Mr. Lundberg replied, "Yes, I have looked at them there, yes."
Mr. John Hoover, with Hedges Neon, was present and said, "When I start
to speak everyone thinks I have a selfish motive, but I really don't because I
really think as a business man in this city what maybe this sign ordinance might
do to us. For years you have allowed signs to project over city property now
with this new ordinance you don't want them to project over city property. This
makes it awfully bad for a new man coming into business and he can't put his
sign out like the others. You permit awnings to project from buildings but you
don't want a sign to project from the building under this new ordinance. You
have stop flashing signs in C-4 District and animated signs, and this is wrong
you have a sign right now that will become nonconforming, it says bulbs running.
Anybody else in that district or C-3 district they cannot do that. This ordinanc
prevents that. You changed your ordinance to read from figuring square feet from
one side to both sides of a sign. In Industrial 1 and 2 districts you have no
limitation on the height of a building but you say the sign should only be 30 fee
high. I think there is a lot of inconsistency in this ordinance and it ought to
be straightened out before anything is passed at this point, and I will go along
with C. L. Clark, I would like to have a few Commissioners go in there and start
looking at those maps, it will refer to another page to abut to this page and tha
page, and it is just darn hard. I was down there for an hour or better this
morning trying to figure out. It is hard, you can't see it all on one board. Yoi
don't know what is adjoining a C-5 or nothing else. These people work with these
maps all the time and they can find them. I would like to have you Commissioners
go in there and try to look at those maps. You look at the one they have got in
there with the zones marked on it as of today and you can understand that, but
you can't those in that book."
Commissioner Usher asked if he had seen the new corrected version?
Mr. Hoover replied he hasn't.
Commissioner Usher asked if there weren't some corrections made
under his advice?
Mr. Hoover replied, "There were a few. There were a lot of them
denied with no action taken."
Mr. Harry Steele was present and said, "My point in this is a lot of
nonconforming buildings. I have some and nonconforming ground. Now I don't
know if it is 12 months or 24 months, but it seems to me like for to be able
to deny those to continue to operate or be able to remodel or change or enlarge
it seems to me like that is just like taking money from you without due process
of law, and I just don't think it is right. The others domain that you can do
it, but I don't think you should do it under this law. It is my understanding
I don't know if it is 12 months, my book says 12 months, I heard one of the
boys say it is 24 months now, I don't know, but the book they sent me was 12
months, and I have one building at 528 North 9th, Social Security Building,
we want to enlarge on it, well we possibly can and possibly can't, we don't know
where we are right now, but it seems to me like there is a lot of people being
hurt and going to be hurt that are really not aware of it, but I can name several
places. We have got some land up on North 81 that has had mobile home sales
on it, well now they are zoning it so it won't have. I have no objection to new
land that I might acquire being zoned however they might see fit, but the land
I have already zoned to do certain things I hate for them to take it away from
me the right to do those things without paying me for it."
222
Mayor Caldwell asked Mr. Rawlings if he wanted to answer anyone's
questions.
Mr. Rawlings replied, "Mr. Engleman is correct in one respect in that
the change was made on the Salina Journal property from the original proposal.
The change was made at the Journal's request, the change was effected that provic
them a permitted use as long as they operate a newspaper publishing plant, there
would be no problem whatsoever, it is a permitted under the zone they were given.
We chose not to go with a central business district zone because they are not in
any sense of the word in the central business district. One of the main objectic
to the present zoning application is the use of the "E" zone indescriminately
around the city when it was designed primarily for central business district and
we were trying to get that off of some of the properties including the Journal's
property. As far as Mr. Steele is concerned, I think it probably fairly obvious
that he has not read the final copy also, because there is nothing in the ordinar
that would restrict anyone who is made nonconforming by this ordinance from
expanding, rebuilding, enlarging, in any way."
Mr. Steele asked how long a time if we should be shut down?
Mr. Rawlings said, "If the use is discontinued for a period of two year ,
you loose that under the present ordinance."
Mr. Steele asked, "If you loose it from a tornado or something, 75% or
50%, whatever?"
Mr. Rawlings explained, "If the damage is caused by a tornado, 50% or
more, or if you are completely destroyed, you can rebuild it."
Mr. Steele replied, "That is not what my book says."
Mr. Rawlings explained he does not have a copy with the revisions.
"You requested one in the early stages, you did not ask for one after the changes
were made, and I don't think you were in attendance at any of the meetings where
we went over all of these (unintelligible). You were sent, however, a letter."
Mr. Engleman asked Mr. Rawlings, "If a tornado or fire should strike
the Journal Building they could rebuild, remodel exactly as they are now?"
Mr. Rawlings replied, "That is exactly correct. We have been trying
to say that for the last month or 6 weeks."
Mr. Engleman said, "I know you have been trying to say that, but
doesn't the set backs requirements for the category you are attempting to put
the Journal in, the C-3 district, doesn't it require minimum setback from the
sidewalks for example?"
Mr. Howard Engleman, Attorney, was present and said, "I don't know if
you want to get into each particular protest of each particular land owner
that has had his day before the Commission or not. I represent the Salina
Journal, we were invited to present our views to you on proposed rezoning of
the Journal building. It would take perhaps 5 or 10 minutes to do so, but I
know there are many others in the same boat. Ours revolves around the fact
that before an able Commission 15 years ago and before an able City Manager at that
time a rezoning was effected giving us an "E" zoning, and the old conversion
tables promulgated by the experts say that a zoning district of "E" should
be now rezoned in order to conform to a C-4, the Zoning Commission originally
said that the rezoning should be a residential, after they heard our arguments
at_that time they apparently agreed that we must have some merit in our arguments
but instead of recommending it conversion to C-4 they gave it C-3 which is a
shopping center district and there are many, many arguments that we would like
to present to you showing that would be inadequate under the circumstances,
so whatever your wishes are, if you want to hear each individual complaint
piecemeal or whether you want to wait until the proper maps are promulgated
we certainly would want to comply with your wishes."
Mayor Caldwell asked Mr. Rawlings if he wanted to answer anyone's
questions.
Mr. Rawlings replied, "Mr. Engleman is correct in one respect in that
the change was made on the Salina Journal property from the original proposal.
The change was made at the Journal's request, the change was effected that provic
them a permitted use as long as they operate a newspaper publishing plant, there
would be no problem whatsoever, it is a permitted under the zone they were given.
We chose not to go with a central business district zone because they are not in
any sense of the word in the central business district. One of the main objectic
to the present zoning application is the use of the "E" zone indescriminately
around the city when it was designed primarily for central business district and
we were trying to get that off of some of the properties including the Journal's
property. As far as Mr. Steele is concerned, I think it probably fairly obvious
that he has not read the final copy also, because there is nothing in the ordinar
that would restrict anyone who is made nonconforming by this ordinance from
expanding, rebuilding, enlarging, in any way."
Mr. Steele asked how long a time if we should be shut down?
Mr. Rawlings said, "If the use is discontinued for a period of two year ,
you loose that under the present ordinance."
Mr. Steele asked, "If you loose it from a tornado or something, 75% or
50%, whatever?"
Mr. Rawlings explained, "If the damage is caused by a tornado, 50% or
more, or if you are completely destroyed, you can rebuild it."
Mr. Steele replied, "That is not what my book says."
Mr. Rawlings explained he does not have a copy with the revisions.
"You requested one in the early stages, you did not ask for one after the changes
were made, and I don't think you were in attendance at any of the meetings where
we went over all of these (unintelligible). You were sent, however, a letter."
Mr. Engleman asked Mr. Rawlings, "If a tornado or fire should strike
the Journal Building they could rebuild, remodel exactly as they are now?"
Mr. Rawlings replied, "That is exactly correct. We have been trying
to say that for the last month or 6 weeks."
Mr. Engleman said, "I know you have been trying to say that, but
doesn't the set backs requirements for the category you are attempting to put
the Journal in, the C-3 district, doesn't it require minimum setback from the
sidewalks for example?"
22J
Mr. Rawlings explained, "You may be required some setbacks if you
completely rebuild up against the residential district. Right now you would
have no restriction whatsoever. You can build right up to every house next to
you, I mean the existing one and the possibility that if you rebuild that
property you may have to observe some setbacks that you are not observing now,
but only if you are up against these properties."
Mr. Engleman asked, "What about the bulk? In the district you are
attempting to put us in there we could only use 65% of our area, which would
mean we would have a deminished size of our building if we rebuild."
Mr. Rawlings said, "That is a possibility, yes."
Mr. Engleman said, "That is the thing, your Honor. It is the possibilities
when you have got an investment of $1,000,500 and when one City Commission told
you 15 years ago that this is perfect for "E" zoning, which would allow us to
build just as we have done, a railroad siding coming down there. We know there
is objections to spot zoning, but in this case, your own Commission has said that
the main objections to spot zoning is the traffic problem it creates. The Journal
built parking places across from its building just to alleviate the parking and
there is no traffic problem on Fourth Street. You have got a railroad track
down the middle, you have got a power plant to the south of us, City property,
and it has got other buildings to the north of us, so we don't think that it is
any eyesore or that it constitutes spot zoning and certainly the Commission when
they made their huge investment decided that "E" was the proper zoning and their
own conversion tables show that C-4 should be proper, and if we had a fire or
tornado or something we don't want to be restricted by your laws that require the
set back or use of only 65% of the area. It just doesn't make sense."
Mr. Engleman said, "I would like for the Commissioners to look at their
yellow zoning comparison. You have got C-4 with an asterisk there saying to refe
to conversion (unintelligible). Under C-4 it says newspaper publishing plant,
which is exactly what we had under "E" when we got our rezoning to start with,
and those houses, at the time the property owners were more than ready, willing
and able to sell the houses at a fair price, and the parking lot the houses were
acquired they too were more than willing to sell them so we aren't hurting the
neighbors, there wasn't a single protest of any kind by any neighbor when we got
that zoned "E" for a newspaper publishing plant. I see no reason to give us any
other different than the present zoning. We want C-4 instead of C-3."
Mr. Clark asked, "Are you going to proceed with the hearings today?
I have a written statement that I would like to give in regard to this, but
I don't think it is the proper time because I want the maps that I can show you
what I am talking about, and you can understand what I am talking about up here
where we can see. You gentlemen are entitled to see how you are zoning the town.
You go down and look at those fragmented ones. I spent hours down there and I
don't know yet where 1/3 of the nonconforming uses are in this town."
Mayor Caldwell said, "This was your first suggestion for the number
of maps, wasn't it?"
Mr. Clark said, "We want a map we can see. We would prefer as citizens
and taxpayers of this town to be given the privilege of examining these maps
and you gentlemen having these maps in your possession so you know what we are
talking about and you have the information to arrive at a proper judgement.
There is no way you can abstractly zone property in districts we don't comprehend
Legally the law requires a zoning map, period. It requires a flood map, period.
Not maps. Every zoning ordinance in this town has a map attached to it. Every
one that has ever been adopted in this town has a map incorporated in it that
you can look at and see what it is, because the law requires it."
Mr.
Rawlings explained, "The chart is
an intended conversion,
where
ever possible
district, but
if an "E" zone is in existence we
it does not guarantee that every
will attempt to give it a C-4
"E" zone will get a C-4 district,
because North
Santa Fe at Pacific is not the central business district
any more
than the Salina Journal property is the central
business district, but
that was
a guide and not a guarantee."
Mr. Engleman said, "I would like for the Commissioners to look at their
yellow zoning comparison. You have got C-4 with an asterisk there saying to refe
to conversion (unintelligible). Under C-4 it says newspaper publishing plant,
which is exactly what we had under "E" when we got our rezoning to start with,
and those houses, at the time the property owners were more than ready, willing
and able to sell the houses at a fair price, and the parking lot the houses were
acquired they too were more than willing to sell them so we aren't hurting the
neighbors, there wasn't a single protest of any kind by any neighbor when we got
that zoned "E" for a newspaper publishing plant. I see no reason to give us any
other different than the present zoning. We want C-4 instead of C-3."
Mr. Clark asked, "Are you going to proceed with the hearings today?
I have a written statement that I would like to give in regard to this, but
I don't think it is the proper time because I want the maps that I can show you
what I am talking about, and you can understand what I am talking about up here
where we can see. You gentlemen are entitled to see how you are zoning the town.
You go down and look at those fragmented ones. I spent hours down there and I
don't know yet where 1/3 of the nonconforming uses are in this town."
Mayor Caldwell said, "This was your first suggestion for the number
of maps, wasn't it?"
Mr. Clark said, "We want a map we can see. We would prefer as citizens
and taxpayers of this town to be given the privilege of examining these maps
and you gentlemen having these maps in your possession so you know what we are
talking about and you have the information to arrive at a proper judgement.
There is no way you can abstractly zone property in districts we don't comprehend
Legally the law requires a zoning map, period. It requires a flood map, period.
Not maps. Every zoning ordinance in this town has a map attached to it. Every
one that has ever been adopted in this town has a map incorporated in it that
you can look at and see what it is, because the law requires it."
224
Commissioner Duckers said, "My feeling is that we should take no action
on this today, but we should hear from those who wish to be heard from today, but
that at some future time, when there is more time, we set aside an entire day whe
we not necessarily conduct hearings, but we conduct a meeting at which time those
others in the community who are not here were not aware of the meeting today can
come and express themselves and that we can address some of these issues that hav
been brought to light today. I just feel this is too difficult a decision to tak
any action at all, and will vote that way at some time later in the meeting."
Mayor Caldwell said, "In so doing, you know we have a moratorium that w
have to be responsible for also."
Commissioner Duckers said, "The moratorium can be extended."
Mayor Caldwell said, "I believe that should be taken under consideratiod."
Mr. Robert Frobenius was present and said, "I think we have got knapsac
and forks and rattlesnakes and rats all in the same hole, and in trying to
delineate one from the other and you just can't pick them out. One point I have
in mind, people have talked to me about investment in town, buying business
property; so as I understand this a man buys a particular piece of business
property and he can build a building on it so high, 30, 45 feet in a particular
zone, in this new zoning, then it is cut down to 30 feet. Well now, what he has
in mind to build at 45 feet high, I have no idea, but when you take something awa
from him that is already zoned on that particular piece of property, you are
denying him rights without recourse, and I can't see that you can take away
something that has already been granted by this Commission and zoning in this cit
and arbitrarily say you can't have that in this zoning now in the new. So zoning
of particular types, especially business property where there is a huge investmen
should be equal as the attorney for the Salina Journal said it should be equal to
what zoning he had prior to the new zoning ordinance."
Commissioner Usher asked Mr. Frobenius if he has read the new zoning
proposal?.
Mr. Frobenius replied he has read it.
Mayor Caldwell commented he is finding a number of people haven't
read the revised edition of the ordinance.
Commissioner Duckers asked Mr. Rawlings if anyone had been denied
getting copies of the revised ordinance.
Mr. Rawlings said some have been postponed getting copies of the
ordinance because they have been temporarily out of print, but there have been
and there still are copies available in his office.
Mr. Etherington commented, "Everyone has been talking about what they
have been losing, what has been taken away from them, but under the new ordinance
we don't know how much business we have lost because of the fact that we haven't
had planned unit development, particularly planned unit development in commercial
or planned unit development in industrial. We don't have it, it is in the new
ordinance. This is just one example. This is why I feel that everybody is
making so many objections should take and read this ordinance page by page becaus
I don't think they have done it."
Mayor Caldwell asked if there are any further comments.
There was no response.
Commissioner Simpson said, "I would comment that, express appreciation
to the Planning Commission for the hours and days and months of work they have
put in on this. I am appreciative of that. I candidly say I am not very
appreciative, at this point in time, of the consulting firm that we have been
paying. This is the third public meeting I think we have had on this in some
form or another. They had a representative at one who, as I recall made little
or no comment, and has not been available for the other two. Many situations
or problems are caused by a lack of communications or misunderstanding, and
perhaps this is becoming very evident here. I think we are all concerned and
vitally interested in the economic and social growth of Salina. It is apparent
that I think we don't have the information to proceed at this time. I think
we should have, I would like personally to see an overlay map of our existing
zoning laws in a map, a single document, and an overlay explaining the proposed
changes. I think this would be vitally important. I think we do need to give
this more time for public input. I would therefore move that we receive the
report of the Planning Commission at this time and extend the moratorium on
zoning requests for 30 days beyond the present expiration date."
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Duckers.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A RESOLUTION was introduced and passed entitled: "WHEREAS, the
Salina City Planning Commission has caused to be prepared Proposed Zoning
Regulations for Salina, Kansas," (extending the moratorium to January 31, 1976)
A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Duckers
that the Resolution be adopted as read and the following vote was had:
Ayes: Duckers, Simpson, Usher, Weisgerber, Caldwell (5). Nays: (0). Carried.
The Mayor approved the Resolution and it is numbered 3256.
PUBLIC AGENDA
A REQUEST was received from Dr. C. L. Olson, representative for the
Salina Veterinarians, to appear to discuss the ordinance on taxation of kennels.
Dr. Olson was present and said, "I got a bill for something like
$100.00 the other day on the basis that we were a kennel, and we sort of objected
to this. I was in the group that put the ordinance together and I didn't feel
that this was the intent of the commission, so I volunteered to appear before
you. We were under the impression that for services rendered a fee would be
charged and I understand that there is quite a bit of guidance given to someone
who wants to start a kennel on the atmospheric conditions of it, the best way to
keep it and this type of thing, there is also an inspection from time to time to
see that this is being done. They do not fall outside of the city on any other
type of inspections; whereas the veterinary hospitals fall in the State
set a group of standards that we qualify for a veterinary hospital and have
to maintain these in order to maintain a license to practice, so we thought
this was mentioned enough, and not feeling that this was the intent of the
board I thought it would be best just to ask that the intent be clarified
and that veterinary hospitals be exempt from this."
Mr. Bengtson said, "I don't think there is much question on the intent
of the ordinance. I think the ordinance provides that everyone that operates
a commercial kennel within the city has to have a license, and they define a
commercial kennel as a place or a tract of land where three or more dogs are
for the purpose of profit kept, bred, raised, fed, displayed, exhibited or sold.
And certainly that includes a veterinary clinic that houses dogs. You board dogs
it doesn't exclude you, and as far as the staff here is concerned, we have no
alternative but to enforce the ordinance that is on the books, and I think
the veterinarians were the ones that actually were instrumental in drafting this,
and I think you were chairman of the committee. There is no where that says it
excludes you and I would say that definition."
Commissioner Usher asked if the ordinance can be amended to exclude
veterinary hospitals?
Mr. Bengtson replied. "If you desire, you could amend the ordinance
to exclude any veterinary hospital that has been licensed by the State. I think
you need to bear this in mind, because we don't exclude everybody from license
fees within the city that are licensed by the State. I am sure the restaurant
operators in Salina must have a State license and yet we license them or require
them to be licensed. The pesticide operators are required to secure a State
license and yet we license them, so you can't say anyone that has a State
license should automatically be excluded. Possibly you could do this and not
be discriminatory in nature in this in that any fee or license which you charge
must be based on the service which we render. Now possibly if the State does
provide some of the supervision and some of the inspections that we might
normally be required to make, possibly you could have a lesser fee. I think
you could say they would still be licensed but if they are licensed by the State
that the fee shall be only $25.00 where the others are $50.00 or some grounds for
it and I think you could justify this, otherwise if you can't justify the
discrimination, I would say the ordinance would be unconstitutional."
226
Commissioner Weisgerber asked why they couldn't just eliminate veterina
hospitals?
Mr. Bengtson explained, "They are operating a kennel according to this
definition, if they board dogs. They are doing the same function as a kennel
when they are boarding dogs. A veterinary hospital certainly does one thing
it is for surgery, for treatment, but they do fall within the definition we
have now as a commercial kennel because they do board dogs for profit."
Commissioner Simpson asked if all veterinary hospitals board dogs.
Dr. Olson replied they do.
A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner
Simpson to instruct the City Attorney and the City Manager to get together
with Dr. Olson and see if they can re -work that ordinance and still not be
discriminitory. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A LIST OF TWENTY-FIVE cereal malt beverage license applications
for 1976 were considered by the Board of Commissioners. There were 24 renewals
and 1 new application, all of which have been approved by the Zoning Officer,
Health Department and the Police Department. A motion was made by Commissioner
Usher, seconded by Commissioner Simpson to approve the Cereal Malt Beverage
License applications for 1976, and authorize the City Clerk to issue the
licenses. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
COMMISSION AGENDA
The Commissioners did not bring anything to the floor for discussion.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner
Usher that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
1
1
1976 CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE LICENSE APPLICATIONS
FOR
December 22, 1975 City Commission Meeting
1.
Ramada Inn Restaurant
222 Diamond Drive
2.
Coronado Club
222 Diamond Drive
3.
The Inn
100-102 N. 5th
4.
The Hilton Inn
100-102 N. 5th
5.
Gi Gi's Lounge
122 N. Santa Fe
6.
Salina Country Club
2101 Country Club Road
7.
The Blue Lounge (Carole Gunder)
249 N. Santa Fe
8.
Hide Away
540 Willis
9.
Interstate House Service Station
120 E. Diamond Drive
10.
The Body Shop Restaurant
1014 E. Prescott
11.
Mr. D's IGA
605 E. Crawford
12.
Warehouse Market
1740 W. Crawford
13.
Moose Lodge
1700 W. Beverly Drive
14.
Triplett Standard Service
2218 N. 9th
15.
E & J Restaurant
816 N. Santa Fe
16.
Knights of Columbus
115 N. 10th
17.
Landes Oil Co., Inc.
802 W. Crawford
18.
Landes Oil Co., Inc.
1118 N. 9th
19.
Landes Oil Co., Inc.
547 W. Cloud
20.
Landes Oil Co., Inc.
418 E. Iron
21.
Landes Oil Co., Inc.
1019 E. Prescott
22.
Lamer's Market
145 N. Phillips
23.
A & J Road Runner
616 N. Broadway
* 24.
Sandy's (Bill E. Phillips)
1012 N. Broadway
25.
Labor Building Social Club, Inc.
2055 S. Ohio
* Indicates New Application