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i
WAIVER AND CONSENT TO HOLD A SPECIAL MEETING
OF THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
Board of Commissioners of the City of Salina, Kansas, do hereby waive notice and
consent to the holding of a special meeting of the Board of Commissioners on the
7th day of September, 1977, at 7:30 P.M., at Salina High School South, for the
purpose of discussing the flooding problem in south Salina.
Dated this 7th day of September, 1977.
1
i
Commissioners
We,
the
undersigned, being
the duly
elected, qualified
and acting
Commissioners
of
the City of Salina,
Kansas,
and constituting a
majority of the
Board of Commissioners of the City of Salina, Kansas, do hereby waive notice and
consent to the holding of a special meeting of the Board of Commissioners on the
7th day of September, 1977, at 7:30 P.M., at Salina High School South, for the
purpose of discussing the flooding problem in south Salina.
Dated this 7th day of September, 1977.
1
i
Commissioners
359
City of Salina, Kansas
Special Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
September 7, 1977
The Special Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the auditorium
of Salina High School South, on Wednesday, September 7, 1977, at 7:30 P.M. for
the purpose of discussing the flooding problem in South Salina.
There were present:
Mayor Keith G. Duckers, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Commissioner Karen M. Graves
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
Commissioner Jack Weisgerber
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
L. O. Bengtson, City Attorney
Mayor Duckers commented that the City Commissioners are dedicated to
the pledge to deal with the problem as quickly and efficiently as they can
within the realm of possibility. He said the Commissioners are here to hear
what the constituants have to say. He asked that each person who wishes to
speak, come forward and state their name and address, and then make the comments,
and try to limit the comments to 5 minutes and to limit their comments to one
trip to the microphone.
John Mahan, lives near Bret and Neal, and is a resident engineer. -
am glad to be here this evening and see the City government because I was
convinced we did not have one. From 5 o'clock Wednesday afternoon until Sunday
morning I had hoped to see a policeman, a bona fide city employee of the City
Engineering Department. I did see a civil defense man Saturday morning... as
the water started rising in my drain at 7 o'clock, I started calling the city
and received little response. Someone promised to send someone out, but they
said undoubtedly the drain was working. I fail to believe the drain worked from
that time until maybe Saturday afternoon... I did call someone about whether or
not there was a pump available to remove the water that had been standing in
that house for a day and a half or two days ... Someone said I don't think there
is a pump in that drain. One of the suggestions that they order some 2'' pumps
from somewhere else they said well I don't know, we might be able to get some
pumps in there tomorrow, to which I said ''Sir, are you standing knee deep in
water now?'' Next day we did happen to have some pumps. I don't know where they
came from...I am suggesting we spend money on rebuilding city hall instead of
building local parks.
Guy Reinbold, 715 meal - I want to know who will be approving the
master plan based on the aerial photographs that have been taken?
Mayor Duckers said a professional consulting engineer will be engaged
to study the entire problem.
Guy Reinbold - asked if this recommendation will be approved by the
same staff member who approved the construction of Post Oak Lane? That street
is 2 to 4 feet higher than i4eal, and formed a dike behind my house preventing
the flow of water to the north and now they plan to build houses there will make
it even worse. When they build these houses the water is going to flow down in
our back yard, and there is no provision made for runoff? If the same people
are going to approve the master plan that approved that, the city commission had
better change city employees.
N
Commissioner Weisgerber explained the background of the growth of the
city, the development of the Salina Flood Protection system, the history of the
flooding in that area, and the proposed plans which are already underway to
solve the problem. He explained aerial photographs have already been completed,
and the city is now ready to contact a professional consulting engineer to make
a study of the drainage problem and make recommendations on the best way to
eleviate the problem, and methods of funding.
Guy Reinbold said he read an article that the city was going to look
into this problem in 1967. He asked if it took this long to make the decision
on the civic center and the new lights on Ninth Street? My main point is -
somebody in the city government has to approve this master plan that you are
planning on coming up with, and what I am saying is I would like to see somebody
competent to approve this plan, rather than the people you have on the staff so
far that they have made a mess of the whole city by approving construction of
homes and streets elevated above the streets that are already in existance. In
my opinion that is stupidity. I would like to halt all future construction of
additions, homes, streets, anything, that is elevated above any existing streets
that would cause runoff without adequate runoff plans. Not just helter skelter
allow builders and developers to do anything they want to, like giving them a
blank check.
Norman St. John, 2406 Drake Place, member of the South Homeowners
Association, observed the improvements do not have to be all paid for by a bond
issue, 25% of the available CD funds might be used to pay for it. This would be
within the Federal guidelines. His general statement of belief is 1. many of us
in this part of town believe that an effective plan should be developed at
minimum cost for a plan that would be sufficiently effective. 2. fund as much
as possible with CD funds whatever that might be. There are city engineers
quoted in the paper as saying dredging Dry Creek alone might do the job. I'll
bet we could find dozens of people in this part of town that will seriously
question the idea of whether dredging Dry Creek alone would do the job. One or
more of the commissioners have already mentioned the fact that this project will
be farmed out and I do hope they get a competent engineer, but if they do that I
think we will be well advised to suggest to them that not only should they get a
competent engineering firm but also that they instruct that engineering firm to
keep it simple and to keep the cost as low as possible, and insist that we get
the job done right. As a member of the South Homeowners Association, I can
hardly resist this opportunity to say to the City Commission, ''We told you so.''
... I happen to remember a meeting last year, three present commissioners were
on the Commission, Simpson, Duckers and Weisgerber. We brought pictures to show
the commissioners of the flood in 1973. We were trying to tell them that it
floods down in these parts occasionally. I give the commissioners credit for
one thing, they called this meeting. I think the fact that they called this
meeting is an indication that probably we have their attention, the next question
is how long can we keep it? And I'm afraid a lot of us wouldn't bet very much
on how long we can keep the attention of some of the members of the City Commission.
...A copy of an article printed in the Salina Journal in 1967 was circulated
before this meeting about the flooding problem on South Fourth Street back in
1967. Since the people on South Fourth Street are still waiting for a solution
to their problem, perhaps we better seriously consider giving the City Commission
a time limit in which we expect to get something done. I respectfully request
of the City Commission that they settle upon the best plan, by April 1979. ...
The citizens of South Salina will hold their commissioners accountable to get
something done.
Gene Curts, 739 Neal Avenue, Bonnie Ridge Lakeview Estates. The thing
I am worried about is if they classify it a lake his taxes will go up. History
is interesting but it doesn't have a big bearing here. I am worried about you
defining the problem, knowing what the problem is. We have got water that is
the problem. Offer some solutions. I have heard a lot of talk that all this
water is draining the same place. I live on ileal. I don't know where that
water drains. I don't know what the problem is there. Fourth Street there is a
drainage problem there. I don't propose to be an expert. You are supposed to
be the experts, some department or not. What I am saying is you find out what
the problem is, we know where the water isn't draining. You should know it too.
Let's define the areas and attack each area with some possible solutions. I am
also aware that on farther South of Bonnie Ridge that some of the water drains
north, ... where water in the county drains into the city, now this becomes
another problem. ... Here is another problem and we need to attack this problem.
11
1
�J
I think your suggestion of a definite time limit. I know you want to get somethi
going on a time table, or I don't think they would be here. Let's find some
solutions. Offer us some solutions. We know there are some problems. We were
wading in it, we know that you can come up with some solutions. Now let's work
on it. What can we do to help? I don't think getting excited here and name
calling and telephone calling on our parts is going to solve anything. I don't
think getting emotional on either side is going to help solve our problems. We
are looking to you folks. Now as far as some dates are concerned. You have
this article here, dated November, 1967. ''Keep Your Powder Dry. You residents
of the 1800 block of South Fourth, relief from wet streets may be on the way.
City Commissioners Monday instructed the City Engineer's office to begin working
to solve the drainage problems in the area. Harold Harper, City Engineer,
reported on the problems. He said residents of the area had reported full
basements during heavy rains this summer and the water stands in the streets for
long periods of time, making it impossible for residents to get out of their
driveways. The 1800 block dead ends to Cloud Street on the south side of Kansas
Wesleyan University campus. There is a 36'' drainage pipe on the north side of
the street which becomes a 30'' main at midblock on the south side of a 30''
drainage pipe. A 12'' pipe connects the two larger pipes in the 1300 block.
City Commissioners approved a proposal by Harper to replace the 12" pipe with a
24'' one.'' Apparently it hasn't been done. How long has Bonnie Ridge been
annexed? 14 - 15 years. You have been aware of the drainage problem for 14
years. I know things take time but how much time do you need? We need to get
down to work.
IE
Bob Davis, 1857 South Fourth. I haven't heard anybody speak from that I
area yet. ... Two things I want to bring up. One I don't have an answer to the
second is a little bit of a problem we had with the city last Wednesday night.
First thing is I heard some talk here, we have had it on the radio, that we may
need a general obligation bond issue to improve the drainage system in South
Salina. This is for Fourth, Aurora, Bonnie Ridge, where ever, but it doesn't
include North Salina. How many times did they go back with a bond issue proposals
to the people of Salina for what is now the Bicentennial Community Center? How
many times did it take? How many years? And this is something that is supposedly
going to be of benefit to the entire city, now nd I am talking about a bond
issue perhaps, I don't know, I haven't heard a proposal yet, on what we are 1
going to need to do to improve the drainage in the south part of the city, but
it is only going to benefit you and me. It isn't going to benefit the people in
north Salina. How many of them are going to vote to increase their taxes to
improve our drainage? The second thing is we had a bit of a problem with the
city last Wednesday night. We had a little bit of water in the street and
personally I got off easy, I had minimal damage what water was in my basement I
sopped up with a few towels. Lost a few cardboard boxes and that is it. I
didn't have any big problem. I live in a house that is built up a little higher,'
and had very little water in my basement. My neighbors to the north, I saw
a pipe coming out from under your basement with a pump going for a long time.
24 hours. Where were the people who were supposed to set up barricades to block
the street? We wound up on Thursday, with some of the people who live on South
Fourth in that area, and were blocking Charlotte and blocking Fourth Street with
their automobiles because there were no city barricades there. I called the
Police Department myself Wednesday night and asked for barricades at Charlotte
and Gebhart, to keep people from driving down Fourth Street because they were
making waves, sloshing water into people's houses, and so on and so forth. It
never happened. I found some barricades when I went to work Thursday morning.
I walked down to Charlotte and Ninth down there across the street from Alco,
found some barricades there and also found some of the people who didn't have
the problem getting out driving their cars through the barricades, moving the
barricades to the side, driving through them, and not putting them back.. So I
think the city let us down a little bit right there. We needed some help keepingi
the traffic out of the area with high water and we didn't get it. That includes
a garbage truck that drove down our street Thursday morning.
Mrs. (unintelligible); 1800 block of South Fourth. For the last few
years, I have given up calling anybody at the city because I fought it all these
years, and I was insulted. Mr. Harris told me over the telephone about 3 years
ago he had no intention of barricading her street. So all we have is trouble,
and I am wondering if we couldn't get the railroads to do something? ... Every
time it floods it has been worse. Ever since the Safeway and that shopping
center went in we have had floods. We have just finished our basement and now I
have antiques and collectables, I had everything down there destroyed and gone.
Thousands of dollars ... I have tried and tried. I have talked to Mr. Olson, I
have talked to everybody. I have called the Police Department this time asking
them to please send one policeman to keep the care out and I got a little sing
song ditty ... We get water from every direction. As a matter of fact I think
the City Commission should know we even get water running north off Cloud. We
get it from the East, West, South and north, and this has been a problem all thes
years ... We even have wheat straw in our back yard, so it has to come ...
Every shower we get it in our yard and always have ... We would appreciate it
so much if you would try to do something for us as soon as possible.
June Curts - The gentleman made a statement that any action would only
benefit South Salina. I hear ... Salina, the City on the grow. If we are
growing south, and we want entice businesses into Salina and they are going to
locate in the south part of the town, it is going to help all of us if we solve
the problem.
Lane Ramsey, 1847 South Fourth. I was like Mr. Davis. I didn't have
as much damage as some of these people, but another 1/4 inch of water and I
would have had water in my house. Standing there watching that water come up it
makes you wonder well am I or am I? How much damage am I going to have? How
much money am I going to lose? There is one point that hasn't been brought up
too strong tonight, is how much money are we losing in our property values
because of this water? ... At the end of Fourth Street, the 36'' sewer drain on th
KWU campus was clogged. We went down and opened the drain in one hour's time we
drained that street approximately W from that drain. After the water went down
below the level of Cloud Street itself, it took approximately 8 hours to drain
the rest of it. We have two more drains on the 1800 block one on the east and
one on the west. It took 8 hours to drain approximately 20 inches of water. I
don't feel like we have drainage system enough for the water we are getting. We
got 8 inches and that is a lot of water to get rid of, but if it takes a bigger
drain system, let's get it.
Elton Craig, 635 ideal - I want to thank the city for spraying for
mosquitoes last night. I would like to thank them for sending out a street
cleaner. It is the first time I have seen one after the high water, but I
appreciate it, and for the meeting tonight. I like a lot of people am considered
a transient member of Bonnie Ridge. I would like to remain in Salina and make
it my home. That remains to be seen. I can't help but wonder if the transient
part of this city hasn't been shunned when you hear about 10 years meetings ago
talking about the flood control... 1967. 1 realize most of the people on the
Commission are permanent, home grown Salinaites. I feel like I have the same
priviliges and rights as you have. As I look around Bonnie Ridge, every new
street that goes in is higher, and the houses are higher. The attitude of the
builders seems to be that is the way the water flows, I am sorry. We have had
people in our neighborhood call and ask if there is something you can do, we
have never had water in our back yard until this year, until you put the houses
behind us ... I am in insurance, I called today and talked with some people at
HUD in Kansas City. Salina, July 2, 1974 came under the national flood program
under the emergency program. Under this immediately there is supposed to be a
topographical and hydraulic or water flow of this. This is being done now by
Bucher and Willis, I understand. This is separate from the proposed survey. I
wonder, in my mind, if it is necessary to spend $38,000 on a separate project
when the federal insurance administration through HUD flood control is going to
have a program. It looks to me like you could take this $38,000 ... It looks
to me like you have a duplication of projects on this. ... You can buy $35,000
insurance on your house and $10,000 on your contents. When we go under permanent
and there are certain criteria that have to be met before you can go under the
permanent flood program for a community, you can buy $70,000 on your house and
$20,000 on your contents. ... We have been under the emergency program 3 years
now, and knowing the problem we have with the city on the move ... The part of
the city that seems to attract most of your people who are coming in is south.
X35,000 wouldn't touch a house in Bonnie Ridge before last Wednesday. ...
362.1
Mr. Olson - ... The city did agree to annexation, . they agreed to put
drain storms probable, because they couldn't drain in any direction to help
provide a level of help that drainage system would provide. It is a landlocked
situation, the land out there ... for a mile south, and drainage does come all
the way from Mentor, it probably doesn't vary 2 feet in elevation, but the natural
drainage of the rural areas comes north approximately 1/2 way between Ohio and
the railroad tracks and drains north. I would like to make one point in
1967 1 don't recall the amount of rainfall, 5, 6, 7'' but ... In '67 we had
water running uphill on Magnolia at the blue spheroid water tower it was coming
from the west and going to the east and merely from the pressure ... on the
west forcing the water over the hill and causing a bad situation on Aurora,
Magnolia, Ohio ... It rained about four or five o'clock in the afternoon and
we thought we had an idea. John Estes, Bill Harris, Don Bassett and myself. We
ordered as large a maintainer as Brown and Brown had come out and meet us on
Schilling Road. The water was coming down from the south half way between the
railroad tracks and Ohio, so I know this field was pouring into Bonnie Ridge.
We brought the city maintainer into the south ditch . and pulled out balls of
the rnud probably 3' or 4' in diameter on the south side of that road attempting
to open the grader ditch. That relieved it some, but it didn't catch it all, but
it did help some. It took some water to Ohio ... As soon as the weather dried
up we were instructed to put that dirt we pulled out of the grader ditch back in
the grader ditch. I objected rather strenuously to the County Commission at that
time we were instructed to put the dirt back in that ditch, that I thought
grader ditches along township roads, county roads, state highways, federal
highways were there for a purpose, and that was to drain surface water. I was
Mr. Olson - I can give you a yes and a no, when the subdividers do
plat
Dale Cole, 712 Colonial Court - The only water I got was when I went
to get my kids who were trapped on Robin Road, in the car. ... My concern is
must take the blame or credit.
Dale Cole - ... another point is this, as I
just a little different from many of you other people, as I read in the paper
understand it and you
and listen to the radio I get just a little bit upset and irritated at the blame
this briefly, before this area was brought in to the city the south
being put on the builders and I would like to have one question asked of the
and I realize there was flooding. I live in the Bonnie Ridge, Twin Oaks
City Commission and Norris Olson. Who makes the final decision as to the
so that is the area I am concerned about, but as I understand Neal Street
drainage, the height of the street and the slope, ...?
Ohio to roughly Melanie Lane was developed prior to city annexation. Now
Mr. Olson - Subdivision applications are submitted to the Planning
the city took hold and got involved and helped make decisions, ... so now
Commission, gone over by the Planning Commission and reviewed by the Planning
not positive of this but as I understand it most of the flooding is west of
Commission making the final determination or recommendation to the City Commission
Lane out in that area and that is where the city came into play.
Their recommendations are not in depth studies of drainage, of streets, of a lot
of services that probably should be covered. The last few years they have been
making more strides in those directions, but I think at the time Bonnie Ridge
the first houses were built in that area was platted in 1959 the first 1/3 of
the property which is East 1/3 was petitioned for annexation in 1962 and that
was the area that installed no storm drainage. Total surface drainage was
through the street to Ohio Street. The West 2/3 of Bonnie Ridge then petitioned
in the Summer of 1963 for annexation and was annexed even though it was removed
from the city all the way to Magnolia at that time, and paid for their own water
service out to the rural areas, paid for 2 lift stations, for sanitary sewers at
that time and storm drainage piping system was put in for the area annexed.
Dale Cole, Number 1, 1 don't think I got a yes or no on it yet. I
want to know who makes the final decision? What I am trying to do is get the
pressure off the builders out there, because I don't think it is fair because
they are catching all the flack for all this water in many of these houses. Can
you give me a yes or know on that?
Mr. Olson - ... The city did agree to annexation, . they agreed to put
drain storms probable, because they couldn't drain in any direction to help
provide a level of help that drainage system would provide. It is a landlocked
situation, the land out there ... for a mile south, and drainage does come all
the way from Mentor, it probably doesn't vary 2 feet in elevation, but the natural
drainage of the rural areas comes north approximately 1/2 way between Ohio and
the railroad tracks and drains north. I would like to make one point in
1967 1 don't recall the amount of rainfall, 5, 6, 7'' but ... In '67 we had
water running uphill on Magnolia at the blue spheroid water tower it was coming
from the west and going to the east and merely from the pressure ... on the
west forcing the water over the hill and causing a bad situation on Aurora,
Magnolia, Ohio ... It rained about four or five o'clock in the afternoon and
we thought we had an idea. John Estes, Bill Harris, Don Bassett and myself. We
ordered as large a maintainer as Brown and Brown had come out and meet us on
Schilling Road. The water was coming down from the south half way between the
railroad tracks and Ohio, so I know this field was pouring into Bonnie Ridge.
We brought the city maintainer into the south ditch . and pulled out balls of
the rnud probably 3' or 4' in diameter on the south side of that road attempting
to open the grader ditch. That relieved it some, but it didn't catch it all, but
it did help some. It took some water to Ohio ... As soon as the weather dried
up we were instructed to put that dirt we pulled out of the grader ditch back in
the grader ditch. I objected rather strenuously to the County Commission at that
time we were instructed to put the dirt back in that ditch, that I thought
grader ditches along township roads, county roads, state highways, federal
highways were there for a purpose, and that was to drain surface water. I was
Mr. Olson - I can give you a yes and a no, when the subdividers do
plat
their property they do set their grades, they do set the elevations and
they
must take the blame or credit.
Dale Cole - ... another point is this, as I
understand it and you
mentioned
this briefly, before this area was brought in to the city the south
part,
and I realize there was flooding. I live in the Bonnie Ridge, Twin Oaks
area,
so that is the area I am concerned about, but as I understand Neal Street
from
Ohio to roughly Melanie Lane was developed prior to city annexation. Now
once
the city took hold and got involved and helped make decisions, ... so now
I am
not positive of this but as I understand it most of the flooding is west of
Melanie
Lane out in that area and that is where the city came into play.
Mr. Olson - ... The city did agree to annexation, . they agreed to put
drain storms probable, because they couldn't drain in any direction to help
provide a level of help that drainage system would provide. It is a landlocked
situation, the land out there ... for a mile south, and drainage does come all
the way from Mentor, it probably doesn't vary 2 feet in elevation, but the natural
drainage of the rural areas comes north approximately 1/2 way between Ohio and
the railroad tracks and drains north. I would like to make one point in
1967 1 don't recall the amount of rainfall, 5, 6, 7'' but ... In '67 we had
water running uphill on Magnolia at the blue spheroid water tower it was coming
from the west and going to the east and merely from the pressure ... on the
west forcing the water over the hill and causing a bad situation on Aurora,
Magnolia, Ohio ... It rained about four or five o'clock in the afternoon and
we thought we had an idea. John Estes, Bill Harris, Don Bassett and myself. We
ordered as large a maintainer as Brown and Brown had come out and meet us on
Schilling Road. The water was coming down from the south half way between the
railroad tracks and Ohio, so I know this field was pouring into Bonnie Ridge.
We brought the city maintainer into the south ditch . and pulled out balls of
the rnud probably 3' or 4' in diameter on the south side of that road attempting
to open the grader ditch. That relieved it some, but it didn't catch it all, but
it did help some. It took some water to Ohio ... As soon as the weather dried
up we were instructed to put that dirt we pulled out of the grader ditch back in
the grader ditch. I objected rather strenuously to the County Commission at that
time we were instructed to put the dirt back in that ditch, that I thought
grader ditches along township roads, county roads, state highways, federal
highways were there for a purpose, and that was to drain surface water. I was
1
1
1
362.2
told that there was more involved than that and that there was damages that
would be created to farmsteads and rural properties on to the east and it wasn't
that simple a matter that it didn't make any difference if it was the city or
anybody else you could not come out and change the water course, the water way.
I also know there are more law suits in the court relating to surface water
drainage, surface water problems, than any other subject. So we did put the
dirt back in the ditch and shortly thereafter Verner Sinith, one of the developpers
of Bonnie Ridge, put up a small dirt dike on the south side of his property.
There was then a law suit then filed against Mr. Smith for impeding the natural
flow of the water. To my knowledge that case was apparently dropped it never
did go to trial and I don't believe Mr. Smith ever took the dirt out. Mr.
Bengtson is out of town and was not able to research that case for us. So
there are ramifications, there are problems and hydroloics, water is a complex
issue and nobody on city staff can do this type of project justice. We brought
a map over here with 2 foot contours on it, it will show very vividly where that
water does run and how flat all that property is...
Dale Cole - As I understand
grade and sewer locations, depth...
NDO - That is part of it.
.. the developer is asked to set up the
Dale Cole - ... What I am saying is I just think before you jump all
over the back of these developers, you better do a little more checking I think
it is the responsibility of the press, both radio and television and whatever
else, the newspapers, they are doing some subtle allegations ...
Nancy Mosier, 641 Neal, ...we bought that house on Neal, behind it was
a wheat field and everone on the north side of Neal ... the water drains away
from their house back to the field. Mr. Haworth came in and built up and brought
in dirt. The streets are three feet above us, ... the house directly behind us,
is 4 foot above our property. Also about one week before, I had an excavator
come out and give me an estimate on how much it would cost us to fix our back
yard so we could block some of that water drainage on us. With a [louse 4 feet
above us we cannot possibly build up. Our house is about 10 - 12 years old, one
of the older homes out there ... He gave me an estimate of at least $1,000 to
build up to keep that water away from our house, not out of our yard, there are
only three houses built there so right now it only effects three of us on Neal,
but as Mr. Haworth builds houses down that street, it is going to effect every
one on the north side of weal because the house directly behind them will be 11
feet above them. Right now it doesn't take much of a rain ... for water to
stand in our back yard, because it has no place to go. It runs off of the
houses ... and the only place it can go is in our backyard. I talked to the
City Planner and asked him why they were approved. He told me that because Mr.
Haworth had a drainage system of his own for the streets, it was approved. I
could be wrong but I don't believe his drainage system is any more than his systel
drainage by those streets which eventually hooks into the same drainage that we
have, which means his drainage goes out first and our sits on Neal. ... I'll
stick to the water problems in our yard. I called Mr. Haworth and asked him
where he planned for that water to drain other than in our yard. He informed me
that if I would go down and talk to one of my neighbors and ask my neighbor,
Mr. Haworth would bring his tractor in and remove one foot off his property so
all this water could drain over his yard and onto Neal, then we could get the
water out. And if I couldn't convince my neighbor to take a foot off his yard
to let water drain out there wasn't any place for it to go. Now is that some
type of solution? One other thing ... barricades we had a garage door completely
demolished because of the lack of barricades. Thursday morning someone drove
through the water at the highest point and set up a 2 foot wave and . it will
have to be replaced. So far we do have an appology from the driver but that is
not going to do much. If barricades had been put up ... some of the neighbors
put their cars, Thursday morning they took their cars and went to work so the
water was left unbarricaded.
Unidentified man, 2479 Robin Road, (unintelligible)
362.3
Mike Malone, 1848 South 4th, thanked the City Commission for having
the meeting this evening. I know there is a problem you know there is a problem
and some day we will come up with a solution, but myself, personally, I have
given up on the solution 10 years is long enough to wait. What I am trying to
do is appeal to the humanitarian element of our City Commission in our City
of Salina. Within a block with me I have four widows and one widower and their
average age is between 65 and 70 years old, and these poor peole when the water
hit. Mrs. Cordair lives across the street and lost her husband in May and has
nine children and her children are very lovely children they come back to visit
her frequently and she had her basement fixed up like a little hotel for her
kids and grand kids, 9 or 10 beds and dressers. Her basement was full of water.
We residents on South Fourth like to take care and help each other, but it
doesn't work that way because you have your own problems and we spent several
hours trying to help these widows and widower and I think the city should recogni
the fact that we do have flood waters, try to find out who lives in that area, if
they are widows or elderly let's do something to help them, please.
Mrs. Davenport, 644 Neal - We were also on the front page of the
paper. Luckily we have a fairly watertight basement and we didn't have too much
water, but our neighbors weren't awfully lucky and we all helped everybody pull
carpeting and you find out who your neighbors are that way, but two years ago when
they built the house beside us we called the city engineer's office and said
they built their house two feet higher than our house, what can we do? This was
before the house was built. ... When the houses started going in behind us they
were higher and higher, and we called the City Engineer again. The City Engineer
said when they put in sewer drainage out here they put in two drains when there
should have been eight, and half the size of pipe that they needed in as big as
our basement. I don't know whose fault this was but it seems to me the City
Commission should issue no building permits until it is taken care of because I
think the more houses the more people on the sewer system and the more high
houses that are built the more water we are going to get. Now we didn't happen
to live there in '73 but it was, I don't know if we were lied to or not, but
they said they did not have water in '73 in that basement but we did. We had
very little water this time, but we did have water. I don't know whose fault it
is but I think the City Commission has a duty to the people that already live
there not to put more load into the drain system than is already there, and I
also want to know if it is really going to be Winter before Boyer looks at
those plans?
Mrs. David Cross, 400 block Neal. ... I want to know is how much
dollars and cents have the residents of Bonnie Ridge lost? How many dollars
and cents is the city going to spend to offset that kind of damage for us in the
future?
Floyd Gwin, 2618 Robin Road, - ... As has already been mentioned, a lot
of the water problem in the south end of Salina comes from the rural area to the
south. My question is has the city done anything in cooperation with the county
government to try to do something about the water drainage?
Doug Galloway, 711 Neal, - the lady just asked about damages. She
said she wanted to have a dollars and cents sign. Well ...I've got one. I had
a basement clan come out today and gave me a damage estimate on my basement,
$17,000 he said it is going to take me to fix my house. Now, I was living right
there in 1973, 1 felt very fortunate in 1973 because I managed to fight for
about 4 1/2 hours, sandbag all my windows, sandbag my garage door, sandbag all
the way around my house, and I probably didn't get more than 500, 600 or 1,000
gallons in my basement. This time it was 3 feet deep. Now in 1973 1 was informed
by the city or whoever it was come out there and they said, 'oh it has all been
taken care of'. Now this is number 2 for me, I moved here in 1971 as a permanent
resident of this I
town was proud to come here and right now if I could find a
job and sell the house I would leave in
a minute. I am a retired military man,
... consequently I can't sell my house because no body would buy the dang thing.
Now you talk about money, what happens to our taxes that we are paying out there
God knows it
and is high enough in Bonnie Ridge. Also there was a mention of
Dry Creek. Well it is possible we could dredge that out and it would and
.
take care of some of the water. According to someone I know very well here in
362.4
town, a resident, also a member of the city, works for the city, sayd as far as
he is concerned Dry Creek will be filled in another year. Someone has been
putting dirt into it for the last year. If they are going to clear it out, they
are going to have to find something else ... building a house on there. I don't
know if you have checked into that or not, but I thought it might be something
for you to look at. They are talking about money allocations for the city.
Since I have moved here in 1971 they have done a lot of nice fix up downtown and
I think it looks pretty. The downtown area really looks nice. They have got a
big 4 lane drive down Ash Street ... There other things down in the city that I
think are real nice, and I really appreciate the city ... but believe me I am
not standing up here to chatter, I want to know and I want to ask 2 direct
questions ... 1. Are there any people out there like myself going to get any
relief from anyone, since we don't have any flood insurance? I have gone to my
insurance company already. 1 want to know if there is any relief any way out
there. I have had extensive damage and lost a wall in my basement. My basement
was three fourths finished, I have one hand, that is my fault, that is not my
fault but nevertheless it is here. ... My wife called to get some help from
the city, they said sorry we will come out and evacuate you, but we can't send
anybody out there to help you, until I waded through water waist high to get
home and try to help. I would like to point blank ask are we or are we not
going to get any help? Somebody can have this thing and give me a yes or no
answer.
Mayor Duckers - The fact that we are here this evening indicates
we want to help, what we are going to be able to do I don't know, yet. We
are going to help in any way that we can. I don't know if your question is are
there funds available, such as disaster funds, I have no idea. Out attorney is
out of town because of a death in the family, and we have been unable to research
it thoroughly. If there is any possible way to get funds for you we certainly
will.
Mary Lee ?? Thorp, 2816 Bret - I have been hearing a lot about where
the money can come from. There was an article in Wednesday night's paper about
X1,000,000 Community Development funds $600,000 they can't figure out what to do
with, and I would suggest some of that money be for the project out there.
S. C. McCrae, 655 Guernsey Drive, I appreciate your indulgence in
permitting me to extend the coverage of this to the area pictured in the Salina
Journal Thursday, just south of Crawford between Second and 4th, where Crawford
acts as a dam where the culverts leading into the area there are 5 or 6 there and
1 or 2 leading out under culvert so the street acts as a dam, and the water
keeps piling up and makes a beautiful lake, except that the curb on Crawford is
just high enough so it raises the water 2 or 4 inches below the window wells on
the duplexes on Second. I spent considerable time bailing out some of those
basements. ... I realize it takes years and years to study aereal surveys, and
develop funds and develop plans, but I wonder if we couldn't get a little money
somewhere to dig a ditch under Crawford to solve one little part of our problem?
Mayor Duckers - In answer to the lady about Community Development
funds, we are not sure about that if the federal government will permit that
because the HUD sets up and says these funds must be spent in low or moderate
income areas. We are going to address this and find out if there is some .
because the water does run eventually into those areas of the community near Dry
Creek. We are going to investigate that too. We can't answer that now but
hopefully maybe there is some money there.
Unidentified man - if we get any more floods we will be low income.
Norman Johnson, 2055 Corsaut Court. We didn't the flood
night, but in 1973 we did. The
get the other
gentleman, a little bit ahead of me, said they
were filling in Dry Creek, the
developers. I have been watching this development
in our area ever since 1973.
One of our developers out there has been piling
dirt by the truck loads two or
three weeks at a time then dump it over into
the old Saline river gully.
Now this is against the Corps of Engineers, I know.
I brought it to the attention
of the City Engineer and I was told he would put
an order to cease and desist
to stop the man. ... He didn't cease bringing in
the dirt and piling it up in
the area, then he was given a building permit to
build buildings. ... he is
supposed to have taken out 2 of his lots for every
yard of dirt he put in he was
supposed to take a yard of dirt out. So far he
has never taken one out that
I can find. I always wondered how this works this
happening to our ponding area
which is causing all of this flooding.
362.5
Richard Radiel, 334 Maple - We didn't have the surface water we had
sewer backup in our basements. We have had a petition on file with the City
Commission for over 2 years I have a copy of it here, newspaper clippings saying
we will do something, we will do something. Nothing has happened. We get it
every time we get 1/2 inch of rain we have back up water in our basements. The
drains are shut constantly, they are never opened except when we are washing
clothes. They are shut. We opened our drains, finally Saturday. We could not
use our bathrooms, and flush the stool Wednesday night. We have called people,
we have had a lot of city employees out in our basements . They have been out
and "Oh you have your basements fixed up, we didn't know you people did this to
your basements, we are sure sorry about this.'' We have lost appliances, we have
lost rugs. I have petitions and there has been nothing happen. Back in 1975
I'll read you a little deal from the Salina Journal after we had it up there.
It says sewer backs up in basement drains when it rains and at other times when
the nearby lift pump is operating. City staff members said they had been under
the impression the sewer problem is under control since the sewer department was
notified and residents complained in 1972. We went in 1972, we called the
petition in 1975, and it goes on, we certainly didn't intend to ignore the
situation said Bill Harris, Assistant City Manager. City Manager Norris Olson
said the problem could be studied in the Spring with the city's new television
sewer inspection device which was bought last year with revenue sharing funds.
The weather is too cold to do it right now. They did come out, they took pictures
through all of our sewers, they said it was blocked. We can't get any answers.
What are you going to do? We never got an answer. It was blocked, we will take
care of it. All these houses that have been built over there, we have asked where
does that drain to? Some of the people say it is draining into our sewer.
Those houses, we can't get an answer whether the sewer was put in before the
houses, or the houses built before the sewer. We can't get an answer on that.
We have got a problem over there, I know the people in the south of got runoff
water, we have got sewage in our basement. If it rains a half inch and our
drain is open we get water. They have got to be shut 24 hours a day. ... This was
brought up, you have got faulty valves. The whole neighborhood? One or two,
yes I might say so, but the whole neighborhood can't have faulty valves. I
wouldn't think, maybe they do. ... We would like some answers about what you
are going to do about our problem on Maple.
Merlin Stephens - your pumps pump it in.
Judy Reh, 2267 Leland Way - I have two questions. Would it be possible
to, I keep hearing the forecast and hear it is going to rain again, and I am
worried. Would it be possible to put together an emergency task force, like the
police and the barricades? ... Could you do something in a hurry, right away,
now? My second question is - what do you propose to do about any further rezoning
in the Gebhart Simmons petition? Do you propose to go ahead and rezone that
between 9th and Magnolia on the east side? Are you going to rezoning it more
commercial? Are you going to leave it all residential. Are you going to put
some flood plans ... We have asked you. We have asked you. Please, please,
Commissioner Graves - we did promise to deal with the drainage in the
Simmons Gebhart petition and we did at that meeting authorize the $38,000 for
aerial photographs.
Judy Reh - There are beaucoup engineers in this audience who can read
those maps for you.
Unidentified man - When we have 3 1/2' of water in the streets and
water all around his house, is really not a time for joking.
Eldon Carter, 2365 Aurora - I don't believe anyone has spoken to the
Commission from our block, and goodness knows we need someone to be a spokesman.
I live on the corner of Magnolia and Aurora and we see the water running down
Magnolia down to the corner there and we see a storm sewer right there on the
corner putting water up into our yard instead of taking it down, and putting it
down Aurora, and I thought you just might like to know that.
Unidentified man - Governor Bennett was in town, did he get out of
town without seeing the water problems?
`52.6
Unidentified man - ... The County Commissioners are our Commissioners
and we should put pressure on them too ...
Commissioner Simpson - First of all I would like to thank all of you
for being out this evening and participating in this special commission meeting.
I would hope that very quickly Mr. Olson will contract the SBA and HUD and any
other sources of emergency funds and get a report back to Mr. Galloway as quickly
as possible. Certainly the catastrophic nature of that family and I think we
should expedite any help that might be available for them. Don Rectenwald, I
see here from Civil Defense, Don would it be possible to coordinate some type of
emergency assistance system? Working on that with our fire department and our
police department, sheriffs department, whoever might be involved to provide that
type of assistance on short notice. This certainly would seem to be in the area
of emergency preparedness. Mr. Radiel, I would request that if possible by
Monday Commission meeting we have a report on the status of the situation out
there on Maple or at least what happened to the petition that was reportedly
filed back in 1975. As evidenced by all of your input this evening, there is
not a single problem other than water. There are problems. It effects many
areas of Salina. You are more concerned particularly in our decision with water
problems in the south part of Salina. We need to Immediately engage the services
of a professional engineering firm to identify those problems for us I think you
all would be a great help in this exercise by giving more input to whatever firm
this commission chooses to make the study. If they would have the opportunity
to talk to you, find out exactly where you live, exactly what your problems have
been, and what suggestions you might have. In the aerial photography I understand
has been completed that should now be available for analysis. I think the
Commission then needs to have suggestions from the professional engineering firm
as to solutions to these problems, and they are certainly interrelated, as
evidenced by the discussion and your input this evening, I see no one problem
that is isolated from another. A series of things have created these problems
and it appears only a series of solutions may be necessary. We need to put
price tags on those solutions, and I would not at this time talk about finances,
but I certainly do not want to discourage a bond election were that necessary.
I think we need to take a very careful look at the Planning Commission, citizens
from our community that are appointed to serve on that body, are at the present
time reviewing the subdivision requirements and regulations for the City of Salina.
They are, I understand, among other items considering in those subdivision
requirements, becoming very concerned about the problem we are addressing this
evening, and that is water drainage and elevations. I don't know the legality
of putting a moritorium on building permits, but the problem Mrs. Mosier I
believe mentioned, back of her on Bret it would seem caprecious to issue additions
building permits that will merely compound that problem until some solution can
be reached. Therefore Mr. Mayor, I would move that this City Commission interview,
before October 1, 1977, those professional engineering firms interested in
making a comprehensive study of the available data and to provide additional
data that may be necessary to address the drainage problems, their solutions and
a cost amount.
Commissioner Graves seconded the motion.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Mr. Olson - I merely want to make one comment to you. ... I had Mr.
Rawlings contact the division of emergency preparedness in the office in Topeka
this afternoon, also contact the office of Keith Sebelius in Washington as far
as any benefits in the disaster efforts that might be available through the
federal government, and we were told by both sources that the only apparent
possiblity that they were aware of is a SPA loan to homeowners which carries
lower interest rates, so if we are eligible, unquote, we will have to find out
what that means, but I think Don ... and is working on that, ... that appears
anyway questions that we have been asked, is the only route of relief ...
Commissioner Geis - I came here tonight to listen and not to speak.
have listened, you have given me a great deal to think about a great deal to
keep in mind when zoning issues come before the Commission, when subdivision
regulations are presented, and I have heard what you said.
392 .7
Commissioner Weisgerber - I don't believe I have anything to add. I
think it has been pretty well said, hoping we can proceed to work on this problem
and keep moving until a proper solution can be found.
Commissioner Graves - When some of my friends heard that we had called
this meeting not at our little turf down in city hall, but out here in your part
of town at your convenience, in the evening hours when all of you could come,
they said Karen you are really crazy, you are really asking for it, you are
really going to get it. And I said you know if representative government is to
work at all, we've got to be able to come out and face the people we represent.
I guess maybe the lower Indian Rock ball park the ball diamonds toughened us up,
but anyway we are a bunch of gristled old birds now. There is an old saying
that a man's home is his castle, but heavens you didn't want a motor in it did
you?
Mayor Duckers - There have been a couple of comments about us all being
home grown politicians. I think probably most of my colleagues are native
Salinans, with the exception of Karen who grew up in Belleville, but believe
this or not I didn't grow up in Salina or Belleville, I grew up in a town bylfhd
name of Wetmore. Mr. St. John, kept referring to us as politicians, I understand
he is from Chicago. I learned my politics in Wetmore; but at any rate, we did
want to express our empathy and as Karen said we did want to come meet with you,
we do care about you. We are concerned about you. I honestly feel most of you
feel that way about us but to point out that we are human beings I have always
had a little bit of empathy for Harry Truman. You know he got very upset when
someone took a shot at Margaret about the way she played the piano. I have had
a lot of phone calls and I have tried to listen and I have tried to be concerned,
but the fellow who called twice and swore at my 16 year old daughter I like for
him to come up and visit with me after this meeting.
(Norris Olson - ... I want to leave my parting shot, and that is this,
if any of you are engineers or have engineering friends, if you are lay people
and have an idea, whether it relates to Fourth Street or where ever, Aurora or
the Bonnie Midge area, if there is any problem with any of my staff members
being curt, short or anything else. Call me ... that is all right, call me,
because we don't like that if these instances and occurrences did take place I
would appologize for not having a very good organization, but as some of you
said we apparently have no organization at all, we will work on that. But as
far as Fourth street, we know there is a problem. We have shot the elevation of
the water in the outfall drainage pipe and it measures the same as the elevation
in the slough within an inch. I haven't had an engineer yet propose to me, let
alone propose to the City Commissions, past and present, how you work a tragic
situation like when the storm sewers get full, can't pack any more into them
they will not go down, you get a head on the other end, and it is going to throw
water back up out of, as the gentleman said at Magnolia and Ohio. You have seen
water run up hill and so have I. 1 would invite any of you to look at this map,
we will roll it out on the table here, and you can read those elevations, the
same as I can, and I just want to say this, the people that work for the city,
we bleed the same way as anybody else, and we do want to do a good job and I
appreciate that we have tempers and that sometimes ours are short and the like;
but we want to work with you.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner
Simpson that the Special Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. The meeting adjourned at 9:27 P.M.
U. L. Harrison, City Clerk