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04-25-1977 Minutes2geI() City of Salina, Kansas Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners April 25, 1977 The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commission Room, City -County Building, on Monday, April 25, 1977, at four o'clock p.m. The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the Flag and a moment of silent prayer. There were present: Mayor Keith G. Duckers, Chairman presiding Commissioner Dan S. Geis Commissioner Karen M. Graves Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson Commissioner Jack Weisgerber comprising a quorum of the Board, also: L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney Norris D. Olson, City Manager D. L. Harrison, City Clerk Absent: None The Minutes of the Regular Meetings April 11 and April 18, 1977 were approved as printed. THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED April 30, 1977 - "KANSAS TECHNICAL INSTITUTE AWARENESS DAY". The proclamation was read by Jim Eaken, President of KTI Student Governing Association. THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Week of April 24 through 30, 1977 - "NATIONAL YWCA WEEK'. The proclamation was read by Linda Massey, Executive Director of the YWCA. STAFF AGENDA BIDS WERE RECEIVED for ten police vehicles: Bennett Pontiac, Inc. $43,598.00 Long -McArthur, Inc. 49,700.00 Commissioner Simpson asked if a 400 cubic inch engine, and 116 inch wheel base are minimum specifications for police vehicles? Commissioner Geis asked who sets the minimums? Chief Woody replied the department has tried the big engines and had trouble with them, and has tried the small engines and had trouble with them; and he sets the minimum specifications and recommends the 400 cubic inch engine and 116 inch wheel base. A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to accept the bid of Bennett Pontiac, Inc. providing it meets the specifications. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. THE CITY ENGINEER reported on the sufficiency of Petition Number 3621 which was filed by Doyle D. Yockers for curbing, guttering, paving, water service and sanitary sewers to serve all of the remaining lots in Blocks 34, 37, 38, 39, 40, Key Acres 2nd Addition, that the petitioner owns 100% of the property within the benefit district and is therefore a valid petition. A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner Geis to accept the City Enginee report as filed and approve the petition. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried s' s F, 1 1 it 1 1 THE CITY ENGINEER reported on the sufficiency of Petition Number 3622 which was filed by Roy Presley for curbing, guttering, paving, water services, sanitary sewers and storm sewers for Lots 1 through 5, Block l; Lots 1 through 4, Block 2; all of Block 3; Lots 13 through 15, Block 4, Country Club Estates Addition Number 3, that the petitioner owns 83% of the property within the benefit district and is therefore a valid petition. A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Graves to accept the City Engineer' report as filed and approve the petition. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. THE CITY ENGINEER reported on the sufficiency of Petition Number 3633 which was filed by Bud Mullen for sidewalks in front of 2412, 2433, 2437, 2442 Belmont Boulevard; that the petitioners own 100% of the property within the benefit district and is therefore a valid petition. A motion was made by Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to accept the City Engineer's report as filed and approve the petition, and to introduce a resolution for first reading determining the necessity of and directing that the owner or owners of the certain lots construct, in compliance with plans and specifications of the City Engineer a sidewalk abutting said lots within 30 days of the adoption and publication of the resolution. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Resolution Passed: Number: A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission recommending the approval of the final plat of the replat of Blocks 4, 10, 11, and 12, Georgetown Addition, as requested in Petition Number 3616 which was filed by A. B. Seelye Company, and also recommended that Fox Run in Georgetown Addition be changed to Village Lane to match the street on this replat. A motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to accept the recommendation of the City Planning Commission and approve the final plat of the Replat of Blocks 4, 10, 11, and 12, Georgetown Addition, and to authorize the Mayor to sign the plat; and to introduce an ordinance for first reading to change the name of Fox Run in Georgetown Addition to Village Lane. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Ordinance Passed: Number: AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: ''AN ORDINANCE providing for the amendment of Ordinance Number 8526, the same being Chapter 36 of the Salina Code, and the Zoning District Map therein and thereby adopted and providing for the rezoning of certain property within the City and prescribing the proper uses thereof.'' [Rezoning of Nord Subdivision from District A-] (Agricultural District) to MH (Mobile Home Park District) as requested in Application Z77-1.1 A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Graves, Simpson, Weisgerber, Geis, Duckers (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8566. The ordinance was introduced for first reading March 21, 1977. Commissioner Geis asked if this is what Mr. Nordboe wanted, and if the streets would come into the city or if they will remain part of his park? He also asked if the streets are going to be graveled? Mr. Maes explained that the streets in the subdivision have been vacated so they will be his private property and he will be able to gravel the surfaces of the 3 streets in the subdivision. PUBLIC AGENDA CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE license applications were filed by: Wayne R. and Cora A. Benton, d/b/a B & C Lounge, 311 East Pacific. (New application) William Warhurst, d/b/a Will's Texaco and Auto Repair, 407 West Diamond Drive. (New application) Fred A. Young, d/b/a The Lift, 150 South Broadway. (New application) The City Clerk reported the applicants have paid the required fee and the applica have been approved by the Health Department, Zoning Administrator and the Police Department. A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Graves to approve the license applications and authorize the City Clerk to issue the licenses. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A LETTER was received from Lee and Arlene Layne, "I am writing this in regard to the Mac Tool truck parked at 414 West Walnut. We have been told - after all these years - we cannot park the truck on the street at nite. This is our living. We have no other place to park it. In the first place it has thousands of dollars worth of tools in it so we cannot just park it any place. If we did rent someplace for it we would have to buy another car to get back and forth and we really don't want it that far away from where we live. It is too large to park in the back yard. We have a share driveway with the neighbors. Please reconsider and let us park it where we have been. If not we will either have to sell the house or the business and leave Salina. Do you call that progress for Salina? I certainly do not." Mrs. Layne was present and asked the Commissioners to consider allowing vans and step vans to be parked on the streets. She said the neighbors do not object and two-way traffic can easily flow on that block of Walnut. The City Commissioners, staff and Mrs. Layne discussed several aspects of the request, such as parking on both sides of Walnut Street, inability of school children and pedestrians to see past the truck to cross the street safely; the shared driveway, and that the van is too large to maneuver into the driveway, the definitions of van, step van, pickup, truck, updating of the ordinance prohibits truck parking, excluding pickups, except in commercial or industrial areas, and that the ordinance may not be discriminatory and must be uniformly applicable, the ability to change classifications of vehicles on titles, and that safety is the purpose of prohibiting truck parking on the streets. An unidentified woman was present and said she doesn't care if the truck is parked on the street at night, but she wants it moved when her child needs to cross during the day to go to school. Mr. Harris said the primary purpose of the streets is to move traffic as opposed to parking, and vehicles the size of step vans are an obstruction to the view of pedestrians and other motorists. The ordinance is needed and the next step could be to get into a very definitive process of length, height and width of vehicles which may park on the street, but the City will still be confronted with the same type problems. Chief Woody said the Laynes bought this larger vehicle within the last year. With the narrowness of Walnut, if another truck of the same size would park opposite the Layne's truck, there would not be enough room for two-way traffic. He said the ordinance is clear, and is necessary for safety purposes. The primary concern of streets is to move traffic and not to store vehicles. He said it is a good ordinance to have for the safety of the people of this city. The Commissioners suggested Mrs. Layne work out a solution with the neighbors to park in the driveway, or to ask Southwestern Bell Credit Union for permission to park in their parking lot. A motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Graves to continue to enforce the ordinance, for the best interest of Salina. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Mrs. Layne asked permission to continue to park the truck on the street until they can sell their house. The Commissioners replied they could not make exceptions. Mrs. Layne asked how many tickets have been issued for night time truck parking; and the staff replied that she could check at the Police Departmen that it is a matter of public record. ions 1 1 1 COMMISSION AGENDA "DISCUSS ALTERNATIVES TO BOTH AUTO AND PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC PROBLEMS AT SANTA FE AND IRON." (Sponsored by Mayor Duckers) Mayor Duckers - I would hope, perhaps, that we might be able to come up with some alternatives that staff would be willing to explore and perhaps try on a trial basis to see if something can be done to make the situation better than it is. Perhaps it is as good or better than any other way, but I don't believe that we are locked into the extent that we can't try something new and I have had many suggestions, as I am sure others of you have had, through the years as to what the Commission ought to do about that, one being the scatter, what is it called the Denver system or the Boston system or something, the scatter system where all lights to off and the walk lights go on and people can go any which way, scatter any which way, diagonal and so forth. It is one alternative. I would be interested in hearing what others of you might have to say. Commissioner Simpson - Well it has been a problem, as you mentioned. We have had several suggestions, before I slip off this mortal coil I would like to see no left turn signs among other things, installed at Santa Fe and Iron. I know we have the international no left turn signal, but I am not sure we in Salena are urbane enough to recognize that sign and I think I would like to see the scramble proposition explored. Just give it a try and see what happens. There are a couple of other areas that I have mentioned previously, one being that Santa Fe and Walnut, where with the installation of overhead lights, pedestrian traffic it is almost impossible to look up and see whether it is your time to stop or go. I think we might explore putting walk, don't walk lights at some of those intersections where we have installed the overhead lighting, but Santa Fe and Iron is probably the crux of the problem. Dean Boyer - The reason there are no "walk", "don't walk" lights at Santa Fe and Walnut, for pedestrians is because there is no protected pedestrian period in that lighting sequence, they walk with the green light. If you put the walk light on then you are going to have to protect the pedestrian movement i which means another no right turn, which causes the same thing you are trying to eliminate at Santa Fe and Iron. You can't protect your pedestrian movement with a walk light and still allow cars to turn into them. We have studied the timing sequence on the scramble intersection, and you are going to throw all synchronization completely off on Santa Fe if you put one in because it takes time, especially for a diagonal walk. If you are going to go scramble, you might as well go scramble all the way, and with the distance across that intersection requires a 90 second synchronization period, by doing that you have to put your longer time i into the pedestrian movement because you are giving them total time all by themselves, stopping traffic in four directions, and you are going to move less traffic through the intersection with the scramble than you are right now. i Mayor Duckers - Why does it work in other towns? Dean Boyer - It works in town where there is a heavy demand for pedestrian traffic. Without a heavy pedestrian demand, there is absolutely no excuse for putting in a scramble intersection. Their only purpose you have pedestrians stacking up all over the place and you want to let them get out of the way. You find them around convention centers, you find them around certain other activity centers downtown, you don't find them on the normal run of traffic, but you plan them where you expect heavy pedestrian traffic. Mayor Duckers - Wouldn't Santa Fe and Iron be our most heavy area in downtown Salina? Dean Boyer - That intersection, there is more pedestrian traffic. Mayor Duckers - And if we went to the scramble system for 30 days wouldn't all of this ball up and everything tell us all that didn't work and Dean Boyer was completely right and we were all wrong, but then we would once and for all would know that scramble doesn't work? I am being a little bit facetious, but I am really being serious. Commissioner Geis - I wonder if 30 days would be enough? Commissioner Weisgerber - How much time would you have a walk light green? Dean Boyer - I can't quote times, we had worked up a little report on it once before with 4 or 5 different alternate methods. Commissioner Weisgerber - But if there is that little pedestrian traffic, and you have your walk on for only a very few seconds then it has got to go to don't walk while people clear the intersection, but you certainly wouldn't leave it on very long. On the other hand, I have been in traffic just a couple of days ago where I was coming north on Santa Fe toward Iron and each light in front of me that head car in that right lane wanted to make a right turn and was held for three successive times waiting on the light on the right turn arrow to go on, and granted this isn't going to happen in consecutive sequence too many times, but it sometimes does. Now are you better off on that kind of a basis to keep this sort of a set up than you are to try the other with a relatively short walk cycle? Dean Boyer - The complaints are coming at the peak hour. Just like you don't design drainage systems for the peak rain, you also don't normally design traffic controls to try to handle the traffic at the peak hour, because you only get out of your 24 hour period, or a total day's traffic, about 1/3 of your traffic, and you are designing everything for 1/3 of your traffic all wanting to get there at once, and then you will be wasting time on other vehicles which will sit there waiting on these controls for nothing, there is no traffic to be controled, but they still have to sit there and wait on it for about 700 of the traffic. Somebody waits on a peak hour, I don't think this is cause to do too much disruption of traffic signals. Mayor Duckers - Dean, did you say that you at one time come up with four or five different proposals? Dean Boyer - This is just different things, things to do. Mayor Duckers - Why, in this era of citizen envolvement and this being our attitude, what would be wrong with saying to the community, we are going to take a 6 month period of time and we are going to try four or five different things. Some of them are really going to make a mess out of things and some aren't. At the end of the time, we want to know what you think of it. And then maybe saying please, please, please, go back to the way it exactly was, but we may find there is a better way. Dean Boyer - You will probably find people each wanting one of the four methods; however some of the four methods aren't necessarily that safe; so I think you should consider that. One of the methods is to take that right arrow off and let them whiz right any time they want to, but then you are going to have to take the walk light off when you do that and you are going to open the intersection just like you did the others. Mayor Duckers - To a green light, where they would walk on green? Commissioner Geis - Why not eliminate right turns at that intersection? Dean Boyer - This is one of the proposals, you eliminate right turns on all four legs, shoot everybody straight on through that intersection, then you can loop around your one-way streets and come back if you want to. Now that would probably be the safest for the pedestrian and move the most traffic. Commissioner Weisgerber - But there is something psychological, it doesn't really take that long, but there is something psychological in either being the lead car in that lane and you set there with the light pointing you straight ahead and yet you just sit there and there is a string of traffic behind you that probably want to go straight and there you sit holding them up, or if you are the second car back and the car in front of you is held up, there is a psychological thing well the arrow is green, it says go, and nobody is going. It is strictly psychological, but I think you feel it when you are at that intersection. Dean Boyer - Which lane are you talking about? J 1 ''4 t Mayor Duckers - In the right lane. Commissioner Weisgerber - On the right lane, you are going to turn righ the arrow turns to go straight ahead. The cars in back of you are also seeing that light and you have the feeling, well what is that idiot doing there? Why doesn't he get out and move? Dean Boyer - That sign is up there were the cars farther back can read it just easy as that first car. Commissioner Weisgerber - You have got that green arrow up there, or if you are the second one back and you want to go straight through, then you sit there and wait for some other guy in front of you until he gets a turn and it does something to you psychologically. You feel like this isn't right. of stuff. Dean Boyer - I am sure it raises your blood presure and all this sort Commissioner Weisgerber - You get used to it but still you feel like this is a clumsy arrangement. There ought to be some better way of doing it. Dean Boyer - It is a somewhat clumsy arrangement. We will grant you that, but we are at the alternatives where we feel we have considered them, and we feel this is the best there is. Mayor Duckers - Yeah, but the citizens don't Dean. That is my point. Everyone is saying why don't you try this, and I think we owe it to them. Dean Boyer - Okay, I am not going to throw this out as an excuse, but one of the alternatives. Topeka has an intersection similar to this and they have tried and they are back to this system and think it is the only thing that will work for them. Mayor Duckers - But they have proved it to their own people. Dean Boyer - Yes, they proved it by trying it once. Commissioner Weisgerber - It may be largely psychological, like I say. I think it quite likely is, but whenever so many people feel this way why .. Commissioner Graves - .. Are those mid -block cross walks, are they coordinated with the traffic signals? Dean Boyer - They are thrown in, but they will throw you out of sync. Commissioner Geis - I would like to see the right turn eliminated for a while and see what that does. Mayor Duckers - Would it be the consensus of the Commission that Dean prepare 3 or 4 alternatives and we go to the community with some sort of a promotional aspect and say this is on a trial basis, we are going to do this over this period of time. That may not be any way to run a ship, I don't know. Commissioner Geis - You can't necessarily run your traffic control by referendum though. Commissioner Simpson - Make a half turn right? Commissioner Graves - We wouldn't be doing that though, I don't think. Commissioner Simpson - The primary concern seems to be the hold up of traffic in the outside lane at the right turn signal. Is that correct, Jack? That is where you get your psychological feelings. Commissioner Weisgerber - This is what I am sure i other people feel j too. Ken Nordboe - Jerry why couldn't you cut that turn signal just in half? Commissioner Simpson - Make a half turn right? 24' Ken Nordboe - I don't know how many seconds it is on, but you cut it in two and eliminate a lot of your problems, I would think. Dean Boyer - They are short now. Commissioner Graves - Pedestrians wouldn't have a chance then. Unidentified woman - What about "through traffic keep left"? Mayor Duckers - You eventually learn that. Unidentified woman - Out-of-towners don't know this. Commissioner Weisgerber - I get used to it, but I am just thinking about how the general person feels about this. Dean Boyer - When we just get feelings in, we can't also design just on necessarily feelings, but you get different feelings. Now the hot rodder is entirely different. Commissioner Weisgerber - But you also have the feeling some of them might be right. Dean Boyer - I think this is a good legitimate start. I would rather see it start here than with the scramble, certainly. I don't think a scramble is ever going to work; but it can be tried. Elimination of all turns and shooting people straight on through there would certainly move traffic faster than any other method. Now if they are worrying about stacking them up there for three lights this should shoot them through. There are no turns, so the pedestrians are protected, and we would keep the walk light up for them. Commissioner Graves - I think central to this, I think we are all concerned about our central business district and I have felt really threatened downtown trying to get across one of those streets in the amount of time that is available, and the thing I like about the scramble system it sounds like it is maybe heavily weighted in favor of the pedestrian, like it would create kind of a mall thing, where people are free to go diagonally, or any way you want, and think that sounds good that for once we are giving the people on foot a break. Dean Boyer - But the main complaint has been on the traffic being held up and not the people, and you will hold up more traffic by doing that, by giving the time to the people, you can't help but hold that traffic up. Mr. Olson - Not only that, people do get to their bases and you then open the movement to vehicular traffic. It doesn't make any difference if the vehicle then goes straight ahead or turns, because it should be free of all pedestrian traffic at that point, so you would not be creating the stacking problem that Mr. Weisgerber was talking about because he could either go ahead or turn at that time. Dean Boyer - Not the same cause, but I think you would move less vehicles through the intersection in total. Mr. Olson - They should all be moving though Dean. You are not waiting for the car ahead to make a right turn because there is a pedestrian in the lane. He should be rolling, and you may have another 30 second sequence to wait for, 18 or something like this, but once he is moving, once he has got a green light and moving his wheels, there is no reason for him to stop unless somebody is jaywalking. Mayor Duckers - Dean why don't you come up with at least those two, no right turns and the scramble in the proposed test period of time. Santa Fe? Mr. Olson - Do you want no right turns off of Iron also? Or just Mayor Duckers - I think you are talking about all four corners. Commissioner Geis - That is what I was suggesting. Commissioner Weisgerber - As much right turning as there is here. Commissioner Geis - No right turns at all. Mayor Duckers - No turning, period. i Mr. Olson - The only thing I was thinking about, going East and West on Iron, is you do have three lanes, as compared to two on Santa Fe. This would facilitate right turning unless your pedestrian movement ... Mayor Duckers - ... you know, another possibility too, are no turns at certain peak periods but at other times of day they are legal, for example it always seems ridiculous to me at night if you come downtown and want to go East on Iron, if you are going down Santa Fe, and there isn't a car within 2 blocks of you that you can't make a left turn there. ''DISCUSS THE FORMATION OF A SPECIAL COMMISSION OR TASK FORCE TO UNDERTAKE A STUDY OF SALINA'S 'ENERGY' SITUATION. I BELIEVE WE NEED TO RESEARCH AND EVALUATE THE CITY'S IMMEDIATE ENERGY REQUIREMENTS AS WELL AS WHAT WE CAN REASONABLY! PREDICT IN THE NEXT 5, 10, 50 YEAR PERIOD.'' (Sponsored by Mayor Duckers) I Mayor Duckers - I think during the last week we have all read and heard what President Carter has had to say and the proposals that he has made to combat energy consumption and develop new forms of energy. The impact of these proposed measures will maybe not be felt for some time, but they certainly will effect Salina in the due course of time. How much and in what manor is not yet known. It seems to me for Salina to continue as a strong and viable trade and population center for central and northwest Kansas we should begin to look closely at our present and future energy usage and supplies. We should be working closely with our surrounding cities and state and federal agencies. We should be insuring that we have properly assessed our energy requirements and that the requirements are made known to the proper authorities. It seems further that we should be developing the ability to accurately determine the impact on Salina of various energy conservation laws. Obviously, all segments of Salina are going to be effected by energy legislation. Consequently, it seems to me that the City Commission should take the lead in this area. This should not be a crash program, in my opinion, but a solid long term commitment by the City Commission. Since this is extremely important concern of the city, and not yet very clearly defined as to what our needs are, I would propose that we form some j type of a committee or commission, of perhaps 4 or 5 persons, to study where we are today and to make recommendations to us how to proceed. Maybe they will want to involve other, more people than 4 or 5, in some sort of a task force, but it seems to me that we are about there and everything you hear and read points in that direction and I think we might as well face up to it, and Jerry, I was glad particularly to hear you raise the question that you did to Chief Woody today, ironically I had already talked with him earlier in the day about the very thing. I don't know how much power a police car needs to give us the type of protection we need, maybe we need every bit that they have asked for, I am sure that he has analyzed this, but I know we provide, of necessity, provide many vehicles in the City of Salina, maybe we need to be taking a look at those as we plan for their replacement and various department heads who need to travel for us. So with those few words I would like to open this discussion and see how the rest of you feel about it. I Commissioner Simpson - I think it is an excellent suggetion, Keith. Say obviously very timely with the President's message last week. I don't know t if KP&L, or the utility people have developed any type of data on the 5, 10, 50 year needs of Salina or the availability of same. I have not seen any data, if it is available. i Mayor Duckers - This is the sort of thing that will be sought out. One thing I didn't address and I don't know if you actually call it energy or not, but I know privately Jerry, you and I have talked many times about or concern about the water needs of the community in the not too distant future. I know our City Manager and others of his staff are concerned with this; but I think we should be addressing these types of problems. The weeks roll by and the years roll by and I don't think it is too early. )4A Commissioner Graves - In our building code, when somebody applies for a building permit, would it be possible, for instance, to put some kind of insullation requirement into it? That might be - I think conservation right now is where we are all going to have to be until we figure out whether it is going to be coal gasification or electricity, or solar, or what; but we can certainly do something to conserve while we are figuring out where we are at. And speaking of energy conservation, the lights on South 9th Street. Do I understand that they are perhaps going to be turned off every other light on an experimental basis this week? Mr. Olson - The first of the week, I take that normally to be Monday or Tuesday. Commissioner Graves - Well I think the public should know we are trying this as we said we were going to do several months ago, and I think the public should be invited to go out and drive along South Ninth Street and see whether or not, with every other light off, dizzying effect is produced, and Dan says we don't conduct government by referendum, but I think it would be real interesting if people would, after we try it for about a week, send us a post card and put your name and your address on it and say lights on or lights off, whichever one and we won't be tallying them up necessarily, but I think it would be interesting to know whether people ... Commissioner Simpson - ... With any luck we should get the post cards Commissioner Graves - But I would like to know whether people feel, driving at night out there, that it produces some kind of a dizzying effect, because we certainly want to have that be safe, but I think it is absolutely ridiculous for a governmental body to have excessive numbers of lights out there. We want just the number that is effective, and we don't need any more than that, so that is a little bit off the subject, but I thought the people should know that is what we are about and we would like to know what their reaction is. Bill Harris - I drove down there the other night and they had the lights off on the West side and on on the East and I wasn't too impressed with that. Commissioner Graves - Was it really dark on one side, you mean and light on the other? Bill Harris - They had some mechanical trouble and and all of the lights on the west side of the road were out. Mayor Duckers - I talked to one of the large employers in that area this week and I thought he made a very interesting - he can understand our position and our concern - and he pointed out that it is very helpful to his employees during the dark of Winter when they are going to work in the dark, and coming home in the dark, and he said maybe, as an alternative, one thing that could be considered would be during this time of the year when our own Salina people are going and coming from work, that we wouldn't need but half of them on, but he really felt it helped his employees the brief period of time early this Spring while they were on, so that is an interesting comment. Commissioner Graves - Yes, but maybe half as many lights would do the same amount. Commissioner Weisgerber - Half as many lights will give us about the same way it is out north. Mayor Duckers - Right. Commissioner Weisgerber - It would be almost identical, wouldn't it? Or very close? 1 1 1 ,;-45 Mr. Olson - Only that these are strung in the median between the north and south bound lanes of traffic and those on North 9th are outside the highway. -1 wouldn't think that it should effect it that much. Commissioner Weisgerber - But the spacing would be approximately the same. I don't think there has ever been any argument with the fact that it needed light or with the kind of light, or anything of this, but the argument really, even the energy isn't that high use, although it is some, but it is a very efficient light, but it is the cost of the lighting. That is a high monthly cost, when other parts of the town need more light than they have perhaps. Commissioner Graves - Well it is still energy, it is still utilizing Commissioner Weisgerber - ... it is a very efficient light however. Mayor Duckers - Dan, do you have any feeling on some sort of a long range planning commission to start addressing our energy needs, assess them. Commissioner Geis - It certainly looks like the need is there, but personally I don't have the foggiest of how you get started on something like that. Looking down the road five years seems quite a ways. Ten years and then the fifty year period that really, that is mind boggling. But yes, I would like to see something done. What do you have in mind? What does this commission do, do they research this kind of stuff and report back to us or ... Mr. Bob Rirodan - I was very pleased to read in the newspaper yesterday that you were going to be discussing this energy problem, is why I came down here. I think there is a real need to worry about energy. Some of my background I have been doing some work with solar energy. I was involved with the school out here at Southeast of Saline two or three years ago. I have also been involve with some studies, some regional studies and some state wide studies. Now there are some things like the Kansas Energy Plan which is being reviewed by the Kansas Energy Commission right now which will be going on to the Governor for signature, and on in to the Federal Government. There was a study down here of 14 counties around Wichita in their energy balance assessment. There are a number of studies going on around in the United States today, including the State of Kansas, and I feel that the City of Salina should really be evaluating where we stand today, and where we plan to go, and yes the power companies do have data on what they project 5 years, 10 years and so forth. In fact the State has so much data that one of the problems is just determining which data to use and which data not to use. That is a bigger problem really. We need to be at least looking at where we are going in this city and not necessarily when they say what the lights are on South Ninth Street, for example one of the problems is the problems with schools. We have North Junior High here where they are doing a lot of remodeling. Well there are some bills before congress right now Senate Bill 701 and House Bill 5996, where they are looking at making federal funds available on a 50-50 matching type grants. And you know we should be aware of these things and we should be putting our inputs. Schools have a problem and non-profit organizations have a bigger problem like tax credit for a non-profit organization doesn't do a bit of good, so all your hospitals, your private colleges, they have a serious problem because the tax credit just doesn't help them. How are we impacted, for example, if I could go ahead, Dan, and sort of answer your question a little bit. How are we going to be impacted in our industry in this town, with the various curtailments as they go through an energy plan and they decide what energy will be curtailed when? Are we aware of how that is going to impact on industry in Salina? Now a lot of town are looking' at this. Wichita I think are all aware, they are looking at it quite a bit, so consequently when they start deciding to make laws, when President Carter, and i and probably the new department of energy start looking at these things, they are going to go to the people that have the data and know where they want to go. So one of the things a lot of the people have been doing have been starting groups, they are small at first and take an evaluation of where you are at, then you begin to pull in more people and you go to the various Kansas energy offices, the KP&L type people and you find out what is available what are they projecting? Then you bring it back and you study it and evaluate it. I don't like the word study, if I may say; so I was very happy to see this coming up. I think this is something Salina needs, Saline County, this part of Kansas because from my experiences the last two years dealing with the Kansas Energy Office and the rest of ERTA and the Ozark Regional Commission. We are not making much of an imput into the decisions that are being made. The inputs that come from the metropolitan area to the East of us. If we want to have some input I would suggest that you begin to form a group and they can begin to have that group of people who can make some decisions and make some recommendations to you as to what Salina should start to do. Maybe talk to some of the other towns around here and find out what they have done, and how they put their plan together. There are a lot of people that are doing it, it is not just something is strange just to this area. Mayor Duckers - Thank you very much. I was wondering who on earth woulc serve on this commission. Did that answer your question Dan, probably much better than I could. I don't know what much I can add to that other than hopefull the group that we would appoint will be able to feed us something back. I wish all of you would give this some thought this week and perhaps next week we can come up with some names that we can consider for about a 5 person commission. The Commissioners brought the following items to the floor for discussiI : A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner Simpson, to add appointments to boards and commissions to the agenda for consider Ayes: (5)• Nays: (0). Motion carried. THE MAYOR, with the approval of the Board of Commissioners, made the following appointments: Chamber of Commerce Representative Mayor Keith G. Duckers Housing Authority of the City of Salina Commissioner Dan S. Geis - City Commission Liaison Joint City - County Board of Health Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson Commissioner Karen Graves Commissioner Dan S. Geis Joint Economic Council of the Chamber of Commerce Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson Library Board Mayor Keith G. Duckers North Central Regional Planning Commission Mayor - via Commissioner Dan S. Geis Regional Conservation and Development (RCD) Commissioner Dan S. Geis Salina - Saline County Emergency Preparedness Board Commissioner Jack Weisgerber Saline County Activities Center for Older Citizens Commissioner Jack Weisgerber Saline County - City Building Authority Commissioner Karen M. Graves Commissioner Jack Weisgerber ion. 1 1 1 United Fund Representative Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson Salina Arts Commission Commissioner Karen M. Graves United Nations Day Chairman for Salina (UN Day October 24, 1977) A. Jay Andersen Commissioner Geis stated that Lakewood Lake needs to be cleared of debris and asked that it be cleared while the water level is low. George Etherington was present and asked that the City Commission allow him 2 minutes to speak about a matter of interest to him which is not on the agenda. A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to allow the subject to be placed on the agenda for discussion. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Mr. Etherington said he is the developer of Dow Addition, asked if the Commission had considered rejecting the bids for Engineering Project 77-614 and reletting the project, because he is in a real bind with this project being tied up in litigation. He said there are 43 lots sold and ready for construction, and that he has a 64 unit apartment ready for construction. The commissioners and staff discussed the position of the city in the litigation, and the time involved to get it resolved. Mr. Frank, was present and said the Commissioners made an error in judgement, and the suit filed by the low bidders is to get the issue settled. Commissioner Weisgerber suggested Mr. Etherington work around the problem the best he can until the litigation can be settled. A motion was made by Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner Simpson that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. 2 W)6 �' V �- D. L. Harrison, City Clerk