04-25-1977 Minutes2geI()
City of Salina, Kansas
Regular Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
April 25, 1977
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commission
Room, City -County Building, on Monday, April 25, 1977, at four o'clock p.m.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the
Flag and a moment of silent prayer.
There were present:
Mayor Keith G. Duckers, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Commissioner Karen M. Graves
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
Commissioner Jack Weisgerber
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
The Minutes of the Regular Meetings April 11 and April 18, 1977 were
approved as printed.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED April 30, 1977 - "KANSAS TECHNICAL INSTITUTE
AWARENESS DAY". The proclamation was read by Jim Eaken, President of KTI Student
Governing Association.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Week of April 24 through 30, 1977 - "NATIONAL
YWCA WEEK'. The proclamation was read by Linda Massey, Executive Director of
the YWCA.
STAFF AGENDA
BIDS WERE RECEIVED for ten police vehicles:
Bennett Pontiac, Inc. $43,598.00
Long -McArthur, Inc. 49,700.00
Commissioner Simpson asked if a 400 cubic inch engine, and 116 inch
wheel base are minimum specifications for police vehicles?
Commissioner Geis asked who sets the minimums?
Chief Woody replied the department has tried the big engines and had
trouble with them, and has tried the small engines and had trouble with them;
and he sets the minimum specifications and recommends the 400 cubic inch engine
and 116 inch wheel base.
A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner
Weisgerber to accept the bid of Bennett Pontiac, Inc. providing it meets the
specifications. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on the sufficiency of Petition Number 3621
which was filed by Doyle D. Yockers for curbing, guttering, paving, water service
and sanitary sewers to serve all of the remaining lots in Blocks 34, 37, 38, 39,
40, Key Acres 2nd Addition, that the petitioner owns 100% of the property within
the benefit district and is therefore a valid petition. A motion was made by
Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner Geis to accept the City Enginee
report as filed and approve the petition. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried
s'
s
F,
1
1
it
1
1
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on the sufficiency of Petition Number 3622
which was filed by Roy Presley for curbing, guttering, paving, water services,
sanitary sewers and storm sewers for Lots 1 through 5, Block l; Lots 1 through
4, Block 2; all of Block 3; Lots 13 through 15, Block 4, Country Club Estates
Addition Number 3, that the petitioner owns 83% of the property within the
benefit district and is therefore a valid petition. A motion was made by
Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Graves to accept the City Engineer'
report as filed and approve the petition. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on the sufficiency of Petition Number 3633
which was filed by Bud Mullen for sidewalks in front of 2412, 2433, 2437, 2442
Belmont Boulevard; that the petitioners own 100% of the property within the
benefit district and is therefore a valid petition. A motion was made by
Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to accept the City
Engineer's report as filed and approve the petition, and to introduce a resolution
for first reading determining the necessity of and directing that the owner or
owners of the certain lots construct, in compliance with plans and specifications
of the City Engineer a sidewalk abutting said lots within 30 days of the adoption
and publication of the resolution. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Resolution Passed: Number:
A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission recommending
the approval of the final plat of the replat of Blocks 4, 10, 11, and 12,
Georgetown Addition, as requested in Petition Number 3616 which was filed by
A. B. Seelye Company, and also recommended that Fox Run in Georgetown Addition
be changed to Village Lane to match the street on this replat. A motion was
made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to accept the
recommendation of the City Planning Commission and approve the final plat of the
Replat of Blocks 4, 10, 11, and 12, Georgetown Addition, and to authorize the
Mayor to sign the plat; and to introduce an ordinance for first reading to
change the name of Fox Run in Georgetown Addition to Village Lane. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed: Number:
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: ''AN ORDINANCE
providing for the amendment of Ordinance Number 8526, the same being Chapter 36
of the Salina Code, and the Zoning District Map therein and thereby adopted and
providing for the rezoning of certain property within the City and prescribing
the proper uses thereof.'' [Rezoning of Nord Subdivision from District A-]
(Agricultural District) to MH (Mobile Home Park District) as requested in
Application Z77-1.1 A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by
Commissioner Weisgerber to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote
was had: Ayes: Graves, Simpson, Weisgerber, Geis, Duckers (5). Nays: (0).
Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8566. The
ordinance was introduced for first reading March 21, 1977.
Commissioner Geis asked if this is what Mr. Nordboe wanted, and if the
streets would come into the city or if they will remain part of his park? He
also asked if the streets are going to be graveled?
Mr. Maes explained that the streets in the subdivision have been
vacated so they will be his private property and he will be able to gravel the
surfaces of the 3 streets in the subdivision.
PUBLIC AGENDA
CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE license applications were filed by:
Wayne R. and Cora A. Benton, d/b/a B & C Lounge, 311 East Pacific.
(New application)
William Warhurst, d/b/a Will's Texaco and Auto Repair, 407 West
Diamond Drive. (New application)
Fred A. Young, d/b/a The Lift, 150 South Broadway. (New application)
The City Clerk reported the applicants have paid the required fee and the applica
have been approved by the Health Department, Zoning Administrator and the Police
Department. A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner
Graves to approve the license applications and authorize the City Clerk to issue
the licenses. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A LETTER was received from Lee and Arlene Layne, "I am writing this in
regard to the Mac Tool truck parked at 414 West Walnut. We have been told -
after all these years - we cannot park the truck on the street at nite. This is
our living. We have no other place to park it. In the first place it has
thousands of dollars worth of tools in it so we cannot just park it any place.
If we did rent someplace for it we would have to buy another car to get back and
forth and we really don't want it that far away from where we live. It is too
large to park in the back yard. We have a share driveway with the neighbors.
Please reconsider and let us park it where we have been. If not we will either
have to sell the house or the business and leave Salina. Do you call that
progress for Salina? I certainly do not."
Mrs. Layne was present and asked the Commissioners to consider allowing
vans and step vans to be parked on the streets. She said the neighbors do not
object and two-way traffic can easily flow on that block of Walnut.
The City Commissioners, staff and Mrs. Layne discussed several aspects
of the request, such as parking on both sides of Walnut Street, inability of
school children and pedestrians to see past the truck to cross the street safely;
the shared driveway, and that the van is too large to maneuver into the driveway,
the definitions of van, step van, pickup, truck, updating of the ordinance
prohibits truck parking, excluding pickups, except in commercial or industrial
areas, and that the ordinance may not be discriminatory and must be uniformly
applicable, the ability to change classifications of vehicles on titles, and
that safety is the purpose of prohibiting truck parking on the streets.
An unidentified woman was present and said she doesn't care if the
truck is parked on the street at night, but she wants it moved when her child
needs to cross during the day to go to school.
Mr. Harris said the primary purpose of the streets is to move traffic
as opposed to parking, and vehicles the size of step vans are an obstruction to
the view of pedestrians and other motorists. The ordinance is needed and the
next step could be to get into a very definitive process of length, height and
width of vehicles which may park on the street, but the City will still be
confronted with the same type problems.
Chief Woody said the Laynes bought this larger vehicle within the last
year. With the narrowness of Walnut, if another truck of the same size would
park opposite the Layne's truck, there would not be enough room for two-way
traffic. He said the ordinance is clear, and is necessary for safety purposes.
The primary concern of streets is to move traffic and not to store vehicles. He
said it is a good ordinance to have for the safety of the people of this city.
The Commissioners suggested Mrs. Layne work out a solution with the
neighbors to park in the driveway, or to ask Southwestern Bell Credit Union for
permission to park in their parking lot.
A motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner
Graves to continue to enforce the ordinance, for the best interest of Salina.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Mrs. Layne asked permission to continue to park the truck on the
street until they can sell their house.
The Commissioners replied they could not make exceptions.
Mrs. Layne asked how many tickets have been issued for night time
truck parking; and the staff replied that she could check at the Police Departmen
that it is a matter of public record.
ions
1
1
1
COMMISSION AGENDA
"DISCUSS ALTERNATIVES TO BOTH AUTO AND PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC PROBLEMS AT
SANTA FE AND IRON." (Sponsored by Mayor Duckers)
Mayor Duckers - I would hope, perhaps, that we might be able to come
up with some alternatives that staff would be willing to explore and perhaps try
on a trial basis to see if something can be done to make the situation better
than it is. Perhaps it is as good or better than any other way, but I don't
believe that we are locked into the extent that we can't try something new and I
have had many suggestions, as I am sure others of you have had, through the
years as to what the Commission ought to do about that, one being the scatter,
what is it called the Denver system or the Boston system or something, the
scatter system where all lights to off and the walk lights go on and people can
go any which way, scatter any which way, diagonal and so forth. It is one
alternative. I would be interested in hearing what others of you might have to
say.
Commissioner Simpson - Well it has been a problem, as you mentioned.
We have had several suggestions, before I slip off this mortal coil I would like
to see no left turn signs among other things, installed at Santa Fe and Iron. I
know we have the international no left turn signal, but I am not sure we in
Salena are urbane enough to recognize that sign and I think I would like to see
the scramble proposition explored. Just give it a try and see what happens.
There are a couple of other areas that I have mentioned previously, one being
that Santa Fe and Walnut, where with the installation of overhead lights,
pedestrian traffic it is almost impossible to look up and see whether it is your
time to stop or go. I think we might explore putting walk, don't walk lights at
some of those intersections where we have installed the overhead lighting, but
Santa Fe and Iron is probably the crux of the problem.
Dean Boyer - The reason there are no "walk", "don't walk" lights at
Santa Fe and Walnut, for pedestrians is because there is no protected pedestrian
period in that lighting sequence, they walk with the green light. If you put
the walk light on then you are going to have to protect the pedestrian movement i
which means another no right turn, which causes the same thing you are trying to
eliminate at Santa Fe and Iron. You can't protect your pedestrian movement with
a walk light and still allow cars to turn into them. We have studied the timing
sequence on the scramble intersection, and you are going to throw all synchronization
completely off on Santa Fe if you put one in because it takes time, especially
for a diagonal walk. If you are going to go scramble, you might as well go
scramble all the way, and with the distance across that intersection requires a
90 second synchronization period, by doing that you have to put your longer time i
into the pedestrian movement because you are giving them total time all by
themselves, stopping traffic in four directions, and you are going to move less
traffic through the intersection with the scramble than you are right now.
i
Mayor Duckers - Why does it work in other towns?
Dean Boyer - It works in town where there is a heavy demand for pedestrian
traffic. Without a heavy pedestrian demand, there is absolutely no excuse for
putting in a scramble intersection. Their only purpose you have pedestrians
stacking up all over the place and you want to let them get out of the way. You
find them around convention centers, you find them around certain other activity
centers downtown, you don't find them on the normal run of traffic, but you plan
them where you expect heavy pedestrian traffic.
Mayor Duckers - Wouldn't Santa Fe and Iron be our most heavy area in
downtown Salina?
Dean Boyer - That intersection, there is more pedestrian traffic.
Mayor Duckers - And if we went to the scramble system for 30 days
wouldn't all of this ball up and everything tell us all that didn't work and
Dean Boyer was completely right and we were all wrong, but then we would once
and for all would know that scramble doesn't work? I am being a little bit
facetious, but I am really being serious.
Commissioner Geis - I wonder if 30 days would be enough?
Commissioner Weisgerber - How much time would you have a walk light
green?
Dean Boyer - I can't quote times, we had worked up a little report on
it once before with 4 or 5 different alternate methods.
Commissioner Weisgerber - But if there is that little pedestrian
traffic, and you have your walk on for only a very few seconds then it has got
to go to don't walk while people clear the intersection, but you certainly
wouldn't leave it on very long. On the other hand, I have been in traffic just
a couple of days ago where I was coming north on Santa Fe toward Iron and each
light in front of me that head car in that right lane wanted to make a right
turn and was held for three successive times waiting on the light on the right
turn arrow to go on, and granted this isn't going to happen in consecutive
sequence too many times, but it sometimes does. Now are you better off on that
kind of a basis to keep this sort of a set up than you are to try the other with
a relatively short walk cycle?
Dean Boyer - The complaints are coming at the peak hour. Just like
you don't design drainage systems for the peak rain, you also don't normally
design traffic controls to try to handle the traffic at the peak hour, because
you only get out of your 24 hour period, or a total day's traffic, about 1/3 of
your traffic, and you are designing everything for 1/3 of your traffic all
wanting to get there at once, and then you will be wasting time on other vehicles
which will sit there waiting on these controls for nothing, there is no traffic
to be controled, but they still have to sit there and wait on it for about 700
of the traffic. Somebody waits on a peak hour, I don't think this is cause to
do too much disruption of traffic signals.
Mayor Duckers - Dean, did you say that you at one time come up with
four or five different proposals?
Dean Boyer - This is just different things, things to do.
Mayor Duckers - Why, in this era of citizen envolvement and this being
our attitude, what would be wrong with saying to the community, we are going to
take a 6 month period of time and we are going to try four or five different
things. Some of them are really going to make a mess out of things and some
aren't. At the end of the time, we want to know what you think of it. And then
maybe saying please, please, please, go back to the way it exactly was, but we
may find there is a better way.
Dean Boyer - You will probably find people each wanting one of the
four methods; however some of the four methods aren't necessarily that safe; so
I think you should consider that. One of the methods is to take that right
arrow off and let them whiz right any time they want to, but then you are going
to have to take the walk light off when you do that and you are going to open
the intersection just like you did the others.
Mayor Duckers - To a green light, where they would walk on green?
Commissioner Geis - Why not eliminate right turns at that intersection?
Dean Boyer - This is one of the proposals, you eliminate right turns
on all four legs, shoot everybody straight on through that intersection, then
you can loop around your one-way streets and come back if you want to. Now
that would probably be the safest for the pedestrian and move the most traffic.
Commissioner Weisgerber - But there is something psychological, it
doesn't really take that long, but there is something psychological in either
being the lead car in that lane and you set there with the light pointing you
straight ahead and yet you just sit there and there is a string of traffic
behind you that probably want to go straight and there you sit holding them up,
or if you are the second car back and the car in front of you is held up, there
is a psychological thing well the arrow is green, it says go, and nobody is
going. It is strictly psychological, but I think you feel it when you are at
that intersection.
Dean Boyer - Which lane are you talking about?
J
1
''4 t
Mayor Duckers - In the right lane.
Commissioner Weisgerber - On the right lane, you are going to turn righ
the arrow turns to go straight ahead. The cars in back of you are also seeing
that light and you have the feeling, well what is that idiot doing there?
Why doesn't he get out and move?
Dean Boyer - That sign is up there were the cars farther back can read
it just easy as that first car.
Commissioner Weisgerber - You have got that green arrow up there, or
if you are the second one back and you want to go straight through, then you sit
there and wait for some other guy in front of you until he gets a turn and it
does something to you psychologically. You feel like this isn't right.
of stuff. Dean Boyer - I am sure it raises your blood presure and all this sort
Commissioner Weisgerber - You get used to it but still you feel like
this is a clumsy arrangement. There ought to be some better way of doing it.
Dean Boyer - It is a somewhat clumsy arrangement. We will grant you
that, but we are at the alternatives where we feel we have considered them, and
we feel this is the best there is.
Mayor Duckers - Yeah, but the citizens don't Dean. That is my point.
Everyone is saying why don't you try this, and I think we owe it to them.
Dean Boyer - Okay, I am not going to throw this out as an excuse, but
one of the alternatives. Topeka has an intersection similar to this and they
have tried and they are back to this system and think it is the only thing that
will work for them.
Mayor Duckers - But they have proved it to their own people.
Dean Boyer - Yes, they proved it by trying it once.
Commissioner Weisgerber - It may be largely psychological, like I say.
I think it quite likely is, but whenever so many people feel this way why ..
Commissioner Graves - .. Are those mid -block cross walks, are they
coordinated with the traffic signals?
Dean Boyer - They are thrown in, but they will throw you out of sync.
Commissioner Geis - I would like to see the right turn eliminated for
a while and see what that does.
Mayor Duckers - Would it be the consensus of the Commission that Dean
prepare 3 or 4 alternatives and we go to the community with some sort of a
promotional aspect and say this is on a trial basis, we are going to do this
over this period of time. That may not be any way to run a ship, I don't know.
Commissioner Geis - You can't necessarily run your traffic control by
referendum though.
Commissioner Simpson - Make a half turn right?
Commissioner
Graves - We wouldn't be doing that
though, I don't think.
Commissioner
Simpson - The primary concern seems
to be the hold up of
traffic
in the outside
lane at the right turn signal. Is
that correct, Jack?
That is
where you get
your psychological feelings.
Commissioner
Weisgerber - This is what I am sure
i
other people feel j
too.
Ken Nordboe
- Jerry why couldn't you cut that turn
signal just in
half?
Commissioner Simpson - Make a half turn right?
24'
Ken Nordboe - I don't know how many seconds it is on, but you cut it
in two and eliminate a lot of your problems, I would think.
Dean Boyer - They are short now.
Commissioner Graves - Pedestrians wouldn't have a chance then.
Unidentified woman - What about "through traffic keep left"?
Mayor Duckers - You eventually learn that.
Unidentified woman - Out-of-towners don't know this.
Commissioner Weisgerber - I get used to it, but I am just thinking
about how the general person feels about this.
Dean Boyer - When we just get feelings in, we can't also design just
on necessarily feelings, but you get different feelings. Now the hot rodder is
entirely different.
Commissioner Weisgerber - But you also have the feeling some of them
might be right.
Dean Boyer - I think this is a good legitimate start. I would rather
see it start here than with the scramble, certainly. I don't think a scramble
is ever going to work; but it can be tried. Elimination of all turns and shooting
people straight on through there would certainly move traffic faster than any
other method. Now if they are worrying about stacking them up there for three
lights this should shoot them through. There are no turns, so the pedestrians
are protected, and we would keep the walk light up for them.
Commissioner Graves - I think central to this, I think we are all
concerned about our central business district and I have felt really threatened
downtown trying to get across one of those streets in the amount of time that is
available, and the thing I like about the scramble system it sounds like it is
maybe heavily weighted in favor of the pedestrian, like it would create kind of
a mall thing, where people are free to go diagonally, or any way you want, and
think that sounds good that for once we are giving the people on foot a break.
Dean Boyer - But the main complaint has been on the traffic being held
up and not the people, and you will hold up more traffic by doing that, by
giving the time to the people, you can't help but hold that traffic up.
Mr. Olson - Not only that, people do get to their bases and you then
open the movement to vehicular traffic. It doesn't make any difference if the
vehicle then goes straight ahead or turns, because it should be free of all
pedestrian traffic at that point, so you would not be creating the stacking
problem that Mr. Weisgerber was talking about because he could either go ahead
or turn at that time.
Dean Boyer - Not the same cause, but I think you would move less
vehicles through the intersection in total.
Mr. Olson - They should all be moving though Dean. You are not waiting
for the car ahead to make a right turn because there is a pedestrian in the
lane. He should be rolling, and you may have another 30 second sequence to wait
for, 18 or something like this, but once he is moving, once he has got a green
light and moving his wheels, there is no reason for him to stop unless somebody
is jaywalking.
Mayor Duckers - Dean why don't you come up with at least those two, no
right turns and the scramble in the proposed test period of time.
Santa Fe?
Mr. Olson - Do you want no right turns off of Iron also? Or just
Mayor Duckers - I think you are talking about all four corners.
Commissioner Geis - That is what I was suggesting.
Commissioner Weisgerber - As much right turning as there is here.
Commissioner Geis - No right turns at all.
Mayor Duckers - No turning, period.
i
Mr. Olson - The only thing I was thinking about, going East and West
on Iron, is you do have three lanes, as compared to two on Santa Fe. This
would facilitate right turning unless your pedestrian movement ...
Mayor Duckers - ... you know, another possibility too, are no turns at
certain peak periods but at other times of day they are legal, for example it
always seems ridiculous to me at night if you come downtown and want to go East
on Iron, if you are going down Santa Fe, and there isn't a car within 2 blocks
of you that you can't make a left turn there.
''DISCUSS THE FORMATION OF A SPECIAL COMMISSION OR TASK FORCE TO UNDERTAKE
A STUDY OF SALINA'S 'ENERGY' SITUATION. I BELIEVE WE NEED TO RESEARCH AND
EVALUATE THE CITY'S IMMEDIATE ENERGY REQUIREMENTS AS WELL AS WHAT WE CAN REASONABLY!
PREDICT IN THE NEXT 5, 10, 50 YEAR PERIOD.'' (Sponsored by Mayor Duckers)
I
Mayor Duckers - I think during the last week we have all read and
heard what President Carter has had to say and the proposals that he has made to
combat energy consumption and develop new forms of energy. The impact of these
proposed measures will maybe not be felt for some time, but they certainly will
effect Salina in the due course of time. How much and in what manor is not yet
known. It seems to me for Salina to continue as a strong and viable trade and
population center for central and northwest Kansas we should begin to look
closely at our present and future energy usage and supplies. We should be
working closely with our surrounding cities and state and federal agencies. We
should be insuring that we have properly assessed our energy requirements and
that the requirements are made known to the proper authorities. It seems further
that we should be developing the ability to accurately determine the impact on
Salina of various energy conservation laws. Obviously, all segments of Salina
are going to be effected by energy legislation. Consequently, it seems to me
that the City Commission should take the lead in this area. This should not be
a crash program, in my opinion, but a solid long term commitment by the City
Commission. Since this is extremely important concern of the city, and not yet
very clearly defined as to what our needs are, I would propose that we form some j
type of a committee or commission, of perhaps 4 or 5 persons, to study where we
are today and to make recommendations to us how to proceed. Maybe they will
want to involve other, more people than 4 or 5, in some sort of a task force,
but it seems to me that we are about there and everything you hear and read
points in that direction and I think we might as well face up to it, and Jerry,
I was glad particularly to hear you raise the question that you did to Chief
Woody today, ironically I had already talked with him earlier in the day about
the very thing. I don't know how much power a police car needs to give us the
type of protection we need, maybe we need every bit that they have asked for, I
am sure that he has analyzed this, but I know we provide, of necessity, provide
many vehicles in the City of Salina, maybe we need to be taking a look at those
as we plan for their replacement and various department heads who need to travel
for us. So with those few words I would like to open this discussion and see
how the rest of you feel about it.
I Commissioner Simpson - I think it is an excellent suggetion, Keith.
Say obviously very timely with the President's message last week. I don't know
t if KP&L, or the utility people have developed any type of data on the 5, 10, 50
year needs of Salina or the availability of same. I have not seen any data, if
it is available.
i
Mayor Duckers - This is the sort of thing that will be sought out.
One thing I didn't address and I don't know if you actually call it energy or
not, but I know privately Jerry, you and I have talked many times about or
concern about the water needs of the community in the not too distant future. I
know our City Manager and others of his staff are concerned with this; but I
think we should be addressing these types of problems. The weeks roll by and
the years roll by and I don't think it is too early.
)4A
Commissioner Graves - In our building code, when somebody applies for
a building permit, would it be possible, for instance, to put some kind of
insullation requirement into it? That might be - I think conservation right now
is where we are all going to have to be until we figure out whether it is going
to be coal gasification or electricity, or solar, or what; but we can certainly
do something to conserve while we are figuring out where we are at. And speaking
of energy conservation, the lights on South 9th Street. Do I understand that
they are perhaps going to be turned off every other light on an experimental
basis this week?
Mr. Olson - The first of the week, I take that normally to be Monday
or Tuesday.
Commissioner Graves - Well I think the public should know we are
trying this as we said we were going to do several months ago, and I think the
public should be invited to go out and drive along South Ninth Street and see
whether or not, with every other light off, dizzying effect is produced, and Dan
says we don't conduct government by referendum, but I think it would be real
interesting if people would, after we try it for about a week, send us a post
card and put your name and your address on it and say lights on or lights off,
whichever one and we won't be tallying them up necessarily, but I think it would
be interesting to know whether people ...
Commissioner Simpson - ... With any luck we should get the post cards
Commissioner Graves - But I would like to know whether people feel,
driving at night out there, that it produces some kind of a dizzying effect,
because we certainly want to have that be safe, but I think it is absolutely
ridiculous for a governmental body to have excessive numbers of lights out
there. We want just the number that is effective, and we don't need any more
than that, so that is a little bit off the subject, but I thought the people
should know that is what we are about and we would like to know what their
reaction is.
Bill Harris - I drove down there the other night and they had the
lights off on the West side and on on the East and I wasn't too impressed with
that.
Commissioner Graves - Was it really dark on one side, you mean and
light on the other?
Bill Harris - They had some mechanical trouble and and all of the
lights on the west side of the road were out.
Mayor Duckers - I talked to one of the large employers in that area
this week and I thought he made a very interesting - he can understand our
position and our concern - and he pointed out that it is very helpful to his
employees during the dark of Winter when they are going to work in the dark, and
coming home in the dark, and he said maybe, as an alternative, one thing that
could be considered would be during this time of the year when our own Salina
people are going and coming from work, that we wouldn't need but half of them
on, but he really felt it helped his employees the brief period of time early
this Spring while they were on, so that is an interesting comment.
Commissioner Graves - Yes, but maybe half as many lights would do the
same amount.
Commissioner Weisgerber - Half as many lights will give us about the
same way it is out north.
Mayor Duckers - Right.
Commissioner Weisgerber - It would be almost identical, wouldn't it?
Or very close?
1
1
1
,;-45
Mr. Olson - Only that these are strung in the median between the north
and south bound lanes of traffic and those on North 9th are outside the highway.
-1 wouldn't think that it should effect it that much.
Commissioner Weisgerber - But the spacing would be approximately the
same. I don't think there has ever been any argument with the fact that it
needed light or with the kind of light, or anything of this, but the argument
really, even the energy isn't that high use, although it is some, but it is a
very efficient light, but it is the cost of the lighting. That is a high monthly
cost, when other parts of the town need more light than they have perhaps.
Commissioner Graves - Well it is still energy, it is still utilizing
Commissioner Weisgerber - ... it is a very efficient light however.
Mayor Duckers - Dan, do you have any feeling on some sort of a long
range planning commission to start addressing our energy needs, assess them.
Commissioner Geis - It certainly looks like the need is there, but
personally I don't have the foggiest of how you get started on something like
that. Looking down the road five years seems quite a ways. Ten years and then
the fifty year period that really, that is mind boggling. But yes, I would like
to see something done. What do you have in mind? What does this commission do,
do they research this kind of stuff and report back to us or ...
Mr. Bob Rirodan - I was very pleased to read in the newspaper yesterday
that you were going to be discussing this energy problem, is why I came down
here. I think there is a real need to worry about energy. Some of my background
I have been doing some work with solar energy. I was involved with the school
out here at Southeast of Saline two or three years ago. I have also been involve
with some studies, some regional studies and some state wide studies. Now there
are some things like the Kansas Energy Plan which is being reviewed by the
Kansas Energy Commission right now which will be going on to the Governor for
signature, and on in to the Federal Government. There was a study down here of
14 counties around Wichita in their energy balance assessment. There are a
number of studies going on around in the United States today, including the
State of Kansas, and I feel that the City of Salina should really be evaluating
where we stand today, and where we plan to go, and yes the power companies do
have data on what they project 5 years, 10 years and so forth. In fact the
State has so much data that one of the problems is just determining which data
to use and which data not to use. That is a bigger problem really. We need to
be at least looking at where we are going in this city and not necessarily when
they say what the lights are on South Ninth Street, for example one of the
problems is the problems with schools. We have North Junior High here where
they are doing a lot of remodeling. Well there are some bills before congress
right now Senate Bill 701 and House Bill 5996, where they are looking at making
federal funds available on a 50-50 matching type grants. And you know we should
be aware of these things and we should be putting our inputs. Schools have a
problem and non-profit organizations have a bigger problem like tax credit for a
non-profit organization doesn't do a bit of good, so all your hospitals, your
private colleges, they have a serious problem because the tax credit just doesn't
help them. How are we impacted, for example, if I could go ahead, Dan, and sort
of answer your question a little bit. How are we going to be impacted in our
industry in this town, with the various curtailments as they go through an
energy plan and they decide what energy will be curtailed when? Are we aware of
how that is going to impact on industry in Salina? Now a lot of town are looking'
at this. Wichita I think are all aware, they are looking at it quite a bit, so
consequently when they start deciding to make laws, when President Carter, and
i
and probably the new department of energy start looking at these things,
they are going to go to the people that have the data and know where they want
to go. So one of the things a lot of the people have been doing have been
starting groups, they are small at first and take an evaluation of where you are
at, then you begin to pull in more people and you go to the various Kansas
energy offices, the KP&L type people and you find out what is available what are
they projecting? Then you bring it back and you study it and evaluate it. I
don't like the word study, if I may say; so I was very happy to see this coming
up. I think this is something Salina needs, Saline County, this part of Kansas
because from my experiences the last two years dealing with the Kansas Energy
Office and the rest of ERTA and the Ozark Regional Commission. We are not
making much of an imput into the decisions that are being made. The inputs that
come from the metropolitan area to the East of us. If we want to have some
input I would suggest that you begin to form a group and they can begin to have
that group of people who can make some decisions and make some recommendations
to you as to what Salina should start to do. Maybe talk to some of the other
towns around here and find out what they have done, and how they put their plan
together. There are a lot of people that are doing it, it is not just something
is strange just to this area.
Mayor Duckers - Thank you very much. I was wondering who on earth woulc
serve on this commission. Did that answer your question Dan, probably much
better than I could. I don't know what much I can add to that other than hopefull
the group that we would appoint will be able to feed us something back. I wish
all of you would give this some thought this week and perhaps next week we can
come up with some names that we can consider for about a 5 person commission.
The Commissioners brought the following items to the floor for discussiI :
A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner
Simpson, to add appointments to boards and commissions to the agenda for consider
Ayes: (5)• Nays: (0). Motion carried.
THE MAYOR, with the approval of the Board of Commissioners, made the
following appointments:
Chamber of Commerce Representative
Mayor Keith G. Duckers
Housing Authority of the City of Salina
Commissioner Dan S. Geis - City Commission Liaison
Joint City - County Board of Health
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
Commissioner Karen Graves
Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Joint Economic Council of the Chamber of Commerce
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
Library Board
Mayor Keith G. Duckers
North Central Regional Planning Commission
Mayor - via Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Regional Conservation and Development (RCD)
Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Salina - Saline County Emergency Preparedness Board
Commissioner Jack Weisgerber
Saline County Activities Center for Older Citizens
Commissioner Jack Weisgerber
Saline County - City Building Authority
Commissioner Karen M. Graves
Commissioner Jack Weisgerber
ion.
1
1
1
United Fund Representative
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
Salina Arts Commission
Commissioner Karen M. Graves
United Nations Day Chairman for Salina (UN Day October 24, 1977)
A. Jay Andersen
Commissioner Geis stated that Lakewood Lake needs to be cleared of
debris and asked that it be cleared while the water level is low.
George Etherington was present and asked that the City Commission
allow him 2 minutes to speak about a matter of interest to him which is not on
the agenda.
A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner
Weisgerber to allow the subject to be placed on the agenda for discussion.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Mr. Etherington said he is the developer of Dow Addition, asked if the
Commission had considered rejecting the bids for Engineering Project 77-614 and
reletting the project, because he is in a real bind with this project being tied
up in litigation. He said there are 43 lots sold and ready for construction,
and that he has a 64 unit apartment ready for construction.
The commissioners and staff discussed the position of the city in the
litigation, and the time involved to get it resolved.
Mr. Frank, was present and said the Commissioners made an error in
judgement, and the suit filed by the low bidders is to get the issue settled.
Commissioner Weisgerber suggested Mr. Etherington work around the
problem the best he can until the litigation can be settled.
A motion was made by Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner
Simpson that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
2 W)6 �' V �-
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk