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04-11-1977 Minutes1 1 1 City of Salina, Kansas Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners April 11, 1977 The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commissi Room, City -County Building, on Monday, April 11, 1977, at four o'clock p.m. The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the pledge of allegiance to the Flag and a moment of silent prayer. There were present: Mayor Gerald F. Simpson, Chairman presiding Commissioner Keith G. Duckers Commissioner Karen M. Graves Commissioner W. M. Usher Commissioner Jack Weisgerber comprising a quorum of the Board, also: L. O. Bengtson, Norris D. Olson, D. L. Harrison, Absent: None City Attorney City Manager City Clerk The Minutes of the Regular Meeting April 4, 1977, were approved as printed. THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Week of April 11 through 17, 1977 - "KANSAS BANK WEEK IN SALINA". The proclamation was read by Mayor Simpson. THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Week of April 17 through 23, 1977 - "PRIVATE PROPERTY WEEK". The proclamation was read by Neda Allison, Realtor -Associate with the C. M. McCausland Company, representing the Salina Board of Realtors. STAFF AGENDA BIDS WERE RECEIVED for Water Sludge Disposal Facilities: Smoky Hill, Inc., Salina, Kansas $720,000.00 Wilson Constructors, Inc., Salina, Kansas 793,750.00 Holgerson and Company, Inc., Salina, Kansas 797,000.00 Walters Construction Company, Inc., Manhattan, Kansas 817,400.00 BRB Contractors, Inc, Topeka, Kansas 823,351.00 The Law Company, Inc., Wichita, Kansas 874,000.00 Mel Jarvis Construction, Salina, Kansas 882,700.00 Chaney & Hope Contractors & Engineers, Addison, Texas 935,500.00 Bushman Construction Company, St. Joseph, Missouri 968,200.00 J. S. Frank Construction Company, Inc., Salina, Kansas 977,153.00 Young's Inc., Topeka, Kansas 989,000.00 Engineer's Estimate 1,051,000.00 A motion was made by Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner Usher to refer the bids to Wilson and Company, Engineers and Architects to be checked and to have the necessary documents prepared by next week to submit the bids to EPA for its approval. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. 9A BIDS WERE RECEIVED for vehicles and equipment: 1. One - station wagon for Engineering Department Bacon & Clark Dodge, Inc., Salina, Kansas $4,858.00 2. Two - tractors for Street Department Wilkerson Equipment Company Satoh $6,605.28 Salina Implement Company John Deere 8,190.00 Wilkerson Equipment Company Ford 8,302.68 Salina Farm Supply, Inc. Massey Ferguson 8,498.00 Central Machinery John Deere 8,970.00 CSF Tractor & Equipment Company Case 885-380 9,856.00 CSF Tractor & Equipment Company Case 885 10,616.00 Birrell's Garage, Republic, Kansas Deutz 12,725.00 3. Ten - vehicles for Police Department Bacon & Clark Dodge, Inc. $44,750.00 4. One - truck and packer for Sanitation Department Waste Equipment and Systems, Inc. $16,400.00 0. J. Watson Solid Waste, Wichita, Kansas 16,910.00 0. J. Watson Solid Waste, Wichita, Kansas 17,110.00 Murphy Machinery Company, Wichita, Kansas 17,975.00 5. One - 3/4 ton pickup for Water and Sewerage Department Bacon & Clark Dodge, Inc. 6. One - 11 ton pickup for Water and Sewerage Bacon & Clark Dodge, Inc. 6a. Three - ? ton pickups for Water and Sewerage Bacon & Clark Dodge, Inc. 7. One - Air compressor for Water and Sewerage Berry Tractor & Equipment Company, Inc. Wichita, Kansas LeRoi Sisco, Inc. Sullair Murphy Machinery Company, Wichita, Ks. Sullair $4,960.00 $4,663.00 $13,295.00 $5,666.00 5,785.00 6,536.00 The City Manager asked that the bids be referred to staff to be checked with the specifications. A motion was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner Usher to refer the bids to staff for checking with the specifications, and to report back next week. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE levying special assessments on lots, pieces and parcels of ground in the City of Salina, Kansas, for the purpose of paying a portion of the cost of: Curbing, guttering, paving, grading and drainage of the Frontage Road from the south line of Lot One (1), Block One (1), Sullivan Addition to the City of Salina, Saline County, Kansas, to the north line of Belmont Boulevard, extended. Curbing, guttering, paving and grading of PLANET AVENUE from the south line of Saturn Avenue north Eight Hundred Sixty-two and forty-one hundredths feet (862.41') to the existing pavement." (Engineering Project 76-604) A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner Duckers to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Duckers, Graves, Usher, Weisgerber, Simpson (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8561. The ordinance was introduced for first reading April 4, 1977. AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE levying special assessments on lots, pieces and parcels of ground in the City of Salina, Kansas, for the purpose of paying a portion of the cost of: Construction and installation of Lateral Sanitary Sewer 554." (Engineering Project 76-612) A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner Usher to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Duckers, Graves, Usher, Weisgerber, Simpson (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8562. The ordinance was introduced for first reading April 4, 1977. AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE amending Section 32-55 of the Salina Code and repealing the existing section." A motion was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner Usher to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Duckers, Graves, Usher, Weisgerber, Simpson (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8563. The ordinance was introduced for first reading April 4, 1977. A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission recommending the approval of the final plat of Eastridge Addition, as requested by Richard Barlow in Petition Number 3596. A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner Duckers to accept the recommendation of the City Planning Commission and approve the final plat of Eastridge Addition and to authorize the Mayor to sign the plat. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission recommending the approval of the annexation of Eastridge Addition, as requested by Richard Barlow in Petition Number 3627. A motion was made by Commissioner Usher, seconded by Commissioner Graves to accept the recommendation of the City Planning Commissiol and approve the annexation of Eastridge Addition, and to introduce the annexation ordinance for first reading. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Ordinance Passed: Number: A LETTER was received from the City Planning Commission recommending the approval of the vacation of Sun, Moon and Star Drives in Nord Subdivision, as requested by Kenneth Nordboe in Petition Number 3629. A motion was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to accept the recommendation of the City Planning Commission and approve the petition to vacate Sun, Moon and Star Drives in Nord Subdivision, and to introduce the vacating ordinance for first reading. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Ordinance Passed: Number: PUBLIC AGENDA PETITION NUMBER 3631 was filed by Harold Larson for the approval of the plat of Knoll Crest Estates in the West !j of Section 6, T 15 S, R 3 W. A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner Graves to refer the petition to the City Planning Commission. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A LETTER was received from Raymond Houck, "In regards to the persons 60 years old and older of this city. I realize that materials and labor used in the construction of utilities cost more now. "We have elderly persons living on fixed incomes of $200.00 or less per month. After their rent, utilities and food stamps are paid for there isn't enough left for other things such as clothing and personal needs. "Speaking for these elderly folks over 60 years of age, would you consider putting these folks back on the old water rate, before the 40o hike was put in effect?" -21"? Mr. Houck was present asking the Commissioners to consider the request. Mr. Bengtson explained it would be discriminatory and a violation of the covenants of the bond ordinance, whereby we agreed with the bond holders of the new bond issue that we would not reduce the rates now in effect. Mayor Simpson asked Mr. Houck about how many people might be effected? Mr. Houck replied he hadn't checked into it thoroughly, they would !have to go to Social and Rehabilitation Services to find out how many are in !that low income to be sure how many are eligible. i Commissioner Usher suggested the Commission might be able to extend ,some relief along this line through the pickup of solid waste, if there is a ;need. The Commissioners and staff discussed the possibilities and decided to ,take the matter under advisement. A LETTER was received from Raymond Houck, "I would like to propose an !ordinance that there will be no smoking in the lobby and in all doctors' and ;dentists' offices in the City. "It is very annoying to persons in waiting rooms as these people are !already sick or they would not be there." Mayor Simpson suggested he take the matter to the Saline County Medical Association and the Saline County Dental Association and maybe they could initiate some self imposed restrictions on smoking in their waiting rooms. A TREE TRIMMING AND TREATING License application was filed by James B. Bogart, d/b/a Bell Pest Control and Tree Service, 1501 West Crawford. (New application). The City Clerk reported the applicant has paid the required fee and has a State license number and the required surety bond and public liability insurance on file. A motion was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner Usher to approve the license application and authorize the City Clerk to issue the license. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. A CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE license application was filed by John Taylor, d/b/a Pizza Inn of Salina, 641 South Broadway. (New application). The City Clerk reported the applicant has paid the required fee and the application has been approved by the Health Department, zoning Officer and the Police Department. A motion was made by Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner Duckers to approve the license application and authorize the City Clerk to issue the license. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. COMMISSION AGENDA "THE APPOINTMENT OF A BASEBALL FACILITY STUDY COMMITTEE." (Sponsored by Mayor Simpson). Mayor Simpson - I would like to request the Commission's permission to appoint a baseball facilities study committee. With the reality and the before long start of construction of the Bicentennial Center, we recognize that it will be necessary to relocate some ball diamonds; but I think while we are doing that it is an opportune time to take a look at the long range program as far as facilities for baseball and softball in the City. I would like to have the study committee look at the, not only the immediate needs but the future needs and perhaps come back with some suggestions and possibility of developing a long range master plan. If you will, in locations, numbers, the whole gambit, this just seems like an opportune time to get this done, or at least to get started. Commissioner Usher - Have you a committee in mind? 1 1 `-4 31 Mayor Simpson - Yes I do, I would like to hold off however one week, I have one individual I have been unable to get hold of this past week and would like to serve on this committee. Commissioner Duckers - I move that the Commission grant the Mayor authority to appoint such a study committee. Commissioners Usher seconded the motion. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. "THE AUTHORIZATION TO HIRE A PROFESSIONAL CONSULTING FIRM TO UPDATE THE 1967 SALINA PARK STUDY." (Sponsored by Mayor Simpson). Mayor Simpson - This was completed with the work of the Citizens' Advisory Committee, at that time I recall serving on that park study committee, among others who I think are here. A professional study was done at that time detailing what we had and improvements that could be made in those parks as well as expansion. Part of this work has been done. It has been 10 years however and I noticed in the letter to the Citizens of Salina at that time that I believe it had been 20 years prior to 1967 that there had not been any major park improvements made. We are in the process, the Planning Commission I believe, has been looking at subdivision regulations now, the public surveys from the media and others have indicated that this is, if not one of the top priorities, at least very high on the list of interest with the citizens of the community. Several of the candidates for the City Commission recognized this as a problem, spoke to this during the recent election. It seems to be an opportune time again to have a professional consulting firm come in and help those involved update our present park study. I know the League of Women Voters has taken a very active interest in this. They are now in the process of developing a survey and some study in this area. I understand that is not yet complete, but would seem to serve as an excellent resource point for a consulting firm to glean information. So I would like to be able for the Commission to proceed on this item. Commissioner Graves - Mr. Mayor, is there some particular reason that you are limiting it to just parks now, and not parks and recreation, because I really think we really ought to make it broader in scope and call it parks and recreation, with the idea that recreation occurs in parks. I think that we should really look at the whole picture of recreation. Can one consulting firm, do you think, do all of that? Surely we can find somebody that is an expert in that whole field. Mayor Simpson - I would certainly think so, because as you mentioned they are tied, they do go hand in hand and I would assume that a firms expertise in this area would cover both parks and recreation. I would certainly concur with the recommendation. Commissioner Weisgerber - Well, but let me bring something in at this point. Yeah, I certainly concur with the recreation, what I am not sure of is, is what is going to come up next. Whether part of that might possibly tie back with this or not. But when we are talking about neighborhood centers, we have got Memorial Hall that is ready to move ahead on. We have talked about a neighborhood center in Centennial Park and we have also talked about a neighborhoo4 center in Southwest Salina and really had meant both of them the same. Actually as strange as it may seem, Centennial Park is actually in Northwest Salina from the point of view of population centers; because the center of population is somewhere, the center of the school population, lower grades is somewhere south of Republic, and that is 1i mile south of Centennial Center. The high school population center is a little bit further north than that, perhaps approximately Republic. But north of the Centennial Center location there are a few houses then you run into Dry Creek and into industrial and commercial and you run into industrial and commercial pretty fast when you go East. The new building, and there is a great deal of it including both homes and mobile homes is going in along Otto and south of Otto which is almost 2 miles south of Centennial Park, so if it is going to serve that west side of Salina and we will call it south, certainly it is south of the business district, whether or not a location possibly' along Republic, possibly along Cloud might not be a bit more central to the people that I believe we are thinking of this serving. Cloud we had said, would ,a1_4 serve what we call the Indian Village area to the North and the Lamer Gardens area and the new areas to the South, so I wonder is this neighborhood center sometimes tied with recreation, it certainly has other aspects to it too however. Is this the kind of a thing that would fit in with the sort of a consultant who would do a park and recreation survey? Or is this the kind of a facility that would have a separate survey run on it, or would they tie together? I am not really sure of that. I wonder if the staff has any comment on that or should this be a separate study or would it fit in with the others? I don't know, but I kind of feel like that Centennial Park is not as good a location as we might get provided there were land available further south, much more central to the people I believe who would use it. Commissioner Usher - I am having a little problem, or the City Commiss ordering a park and recreation survey or study without some, at least, input from the Recreation Commission because someplace along the line this community decided that they wanted a specific commission for recreation and we only have a part of input on that and the appointments; but it would seem to me that before we just order a parks and recreation survey we ought to at least let them know what we are about to do. Commissioner Weisgerber - I would assume they would work with the consultant, wouldn't they? You would expect a consultant to do that. Commissioner Usher - Nevertheless one of our problems is the fact that we have made some decisions on this bench without contacting or least letting some people know and it creates more problems. Commissioner Graves - I think that would be one of the first groups to welcome some kind of an outside, independent study. Commissioner Usher - They are going through a very detailed survey right now, or study. Commissioner Duckers - By a professional, or internal? Commissioner Usher - No, it is strictly with the help of the League and their own. Commissioner Weisgerber - I would certainly think that would be fed into a consultant. Commissioner Usher - I am sure they are not going to argue about it if we pay the bill, but nevertheless I think we ought to call them and say hey, you ought to know what we are going to do. Mayor Simpson - I concur Bill, I wouldn't argue that point at all, it is a logical step but I think it is also logical to try to combine the surveys in the use. Commissioner Usher - I can see that, I still think we need some input from them. Mayor Simpson - Well perhaps at this point in time it would be more appropriate to approach the Recreation Commission, you were saying, to request their acquiescence in a study and cooperation. Commissioner Duckers - Jerry, why couldn't we have a session with their commission somewhat similar to the one that we had this afternoon where just sat down around the table and find out where they are and let them know where we would like to be and see how we can get together in a cooperative effort to serve the best interest of the community? Commissioner Weisgerber - There are so many outside groups though that want to have input into this, the League of Women Voters, the Recreation Commiss a number of other groups. Commissioner Duckers - I was just saying start with that. 1 1 1 Commissioner Weisgerber - Isn't a consulting firm that has expertise in this be the logical people to take all this input from all the different groups that have an interest in both these fields, and let them put it together? Take all this from, and then bring it back with their recommendations, much as we have done on the Bicentennial Study and they have taken the input from the Fair Board and from the County Commission and all these people and then bring it back to us. Commissioner Graves - I think it is time really to bring somebody in with some objectivity, you know, with no charged emotions on the subject, not that it is an emotionally charged subject, but I think it is time, maybe it is, to bring somebody completely from the outside and interview these different groups. One of the radio stations ran a survey and it was high on everybody's list. The League of Women Voters survey said it was very high on people's list. During the campaign it was a constant topic, but I think we are at a point where need somebody to come in that is an outside expert in this and to really look at all our demographics and our parks and count our tennis courts and see where our people live and look at where the swimming pools are and give us a master plan, a list of priorities and tell us which is the highest priority and which is the second and whether there is a possibility of whether we should merge parks and recreation. Where money for capital improvements can come from. I think it is kind of an emotionally charged subject in this city and I think we do need to bring somebody in from the outside perhaps, so do you want a motion? Commissioner Weisgerber - Well, let me resolve just this one question, because I am not at all sure, is it - Norris with your knowledge of consultants and what they do, is this a bad time to try to throw this other thing in along with parks and recreation? Or should it be left to itself? Does that fit the other or should it be left separate? Mr. Olson - I don't know, I was making some notes here. It appears as though you are talking about 3 different things. 1. site, 2. uses, 3. architecture and engineering. I guess you can classify various types of engineering and planning firms as consultants, and then you use it. Mr. Mayor in your statement the hiring of a professional consulting firm. We have departed from your clearly j defined concept to developing park where we are going in short and long range park grounds and areas to be developed. I think in that type of a study the consultant can provide you the conventional type of facilities and planning that takes in a given area of recreation as we know them in Salina today there would be picnicing, tennis courts, swimming pools and things like this that they can feed into a short range, long range park plan. Now, I think this would be fine to incorporate recreation commission certainly as to how they percieve short range and long range needs in the area of community recreation that needs to be incorporated into the park plan. Okay, so that could be, I think, married to a consulting firm overview, overall type of approach. Now, whether the location, and I think you are right Jack, probably there are a lot of people, individuals and groups, probably that would enjoy an opportunity for input into a park study, an update of this particular study. Grounds and facilities both. Now, bringing in the neighborhood center, I don't know. Commissioner Weisgerber - Maybe that is better a separate item. Mr. Olson - I wonder, this is kind of quick, but it would appear to me that you are probably at a point in time of zeroing in on uses and design of that center. Now you could make a third point there, uses, design and location. I don't know that it needs to be located in a park, you wouldn't want to put it in Oakdale, or Kenwood or maybe it would fit in Centennial and we have always thought of that as a site I think. That goes back 3 years ago, probably. The CAC probably picked that for lack of a better site, or there is some open space out there anyway. Staff thought of that I am sure, that connotation, but if that is not the right place then probably an architectural firm approach to giving them the problem of exploring location as well as architecture. Getting in within the costs and precisely and definitely what they envision it to be used for. Now here again there certainly would be recreational oriented input that you would want to seek in that, so maybe you are talking about 2 different approaches. This is kind of quick, but that is the way I would ... 91 Commissioner Weisgerber - It might well wind up staying in that locati but I did feel that something that ought to be checked out some way to be sure that another location might not really serve better, but maybe it better be left as a separate deal and not tied in with the park and recreation. A great much of its ... a great deal of its use would probably not be recreation anyway, although some obviously would. Commissioner Graves - Of course, it is located right in a park ground. It is what makes to me Centennial Park attractive for Centennial Center is the because of the availability of the play ground equipment for children. Mayor Simpson - I am not sure you can really completely sever the relationship between a community center and a park because ... Commissioner Duckers - Who is going to administer it? Commissioner Weisgerber - Well that you don't know. Commissioner Graves - Well we are getting ahead of our agenda on that because that is coming up. Commissioner Weisgerber - But whether it would want to be a part of this survey is what I was ... Commissioner Usher - So you can ask a consultant? Mayor Simpson - I think a consultant can tell you whether or not it was feasible to have a neighborhood center in Centennial Park, or give you some fairly clear guidelines as to neighborhood expansion, the demographics of the j neighborhood, traffic, the whole thing. Commissioner Weisgerber - What if we would ask the staff to contact 2 or 3 consultants who have some expertise in this field and put this situation to them and see what kind of response we get from them. Would this be the logical step to take? Mayor Simpson - It seems it might after conveying our wishes and desires to the Recreation Commission. Commissioner Usher - I have no problem with that, in fact I think eventually this community is going to have to have a park and recreation departmen but I just say right now we have got an entity that should be contacted. Mayor Simpson - It might be another thing that a consultant, a professic consulting firm could address in its study, that very question whether or not the combination of the two functions might be the best way to go. Commissioner Weisgerber - Make it a fairly all encompassing study? Mayor Simpson - Yeah. Commissioner Weisgerber - Not narrow, but rather broad in its scope. Mayor Simpson - Yes, I think it would be much broader than the 1967 Park Study. Commissioner Duckers - Do you want a motion on that? Commissioner Weisgerber - Well with that considered, I would make that in the form of a motion, that we refer this to the staff to make contact with the professional firm, and report back to us what they suggest. Carmen Chirveno - Mr. Mayor, may I speak to that? Mayor Simpson - Certainly. Carmen - I think the thing that bothers me is when you you say you are going to be referring these neighborhood centers to a consultant, then I immediat get a concern about how long we are going to have to wait on this consultant; and I am very disturbed to say well - I mean I can see the need of parks and recreation as a consultant but putting the neighborhood centers in this immediate M 1 1 calculates in my mind that we are going to be waiting several months before we get a consultant's opinion as to the viability of whether we are going to be having neighborhood centers. Now am I misreading that? Or is this a possibility? This is something that concerns me a great deal. Commissioner Weisgerber - I would assume that when the staff checks this out, you would find about what kind of timing they are thinking of. This might make a difference. Commissioner Duckers - But if you get a consultant, Carmen is right, it is going to be weeks and months. I won't mention the United Way, whatever it is we bought from them. Mayor Simpson - Well, I think that is a possibility, I don't know whether it is a trade off between that and finding out that you we put it in the wrong place. That possibility might exist also. I am not prejudging Centennial Park, but just throwing out that possibility. Carmen - I think my concern comes in the fact that you know we have done some study in on this, and then here we are again saying well let's have some consultants to see whether we need this to happen, and here we go again. Mayor Simpson - It could be that Centennial Park in its present existence plus, might be the best site, and that might be the best use for that park as you are saying as a community center. Mr. Olson - What I was suggesting, Mr. Mayor was, that probably at this point in time you are talking about an architect and not a consultant. This is why I circled the word consulting firm, because this somewhat is misleading. I think you are ready for the employment of an architect to determine uses, architecture, and this type of thing in the Bicentennial Center, and you will entertain the same exercise with this consultant as you are going through presentl� with the bicentennial building, in other words location is one of the facets that they will address. Mayor Simpson - Perhaps that then would be best left to the next item on the agenda. Commissioner Weisgerber - Okay, let's make this park and recreation and put that in separate then. That is what I was trying to determine which was the best way to do that. Commissioner Graves - Now what was the motion again? Commissioner Weisgerber - That we instruct the staff to make contacts For a park and recreations study. We will limit it to that. Commissioner Graves - I'll second that. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. "DISCUSS THE INITIATION OF IMPROVEMENTS TO MEMORIAL HALL AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER IN CENTENNIAL PARK." (Sponsored by Commissioner Graves) Commissioner Graves - Okay, we have kind of gotten into this area already, but this has been something that has really been bothering me for a long time the fact that we haven't taken action so I think we have a lot of people here today that are conversant with this issue and Carmen Chirveno is our Director of Human Resources and I think she is here prepared to give us a ;I feasibility report on what it would cost to bring Memorial Hall from a structurall+ sound to a functionally useable building, and some facts on Centennial Center, and I would hope that before we leave here today we will have will be ready for action on those two centers. So I think I would defer to Carmen if she is ready to give us her report. 10218 Carmen - Well, first of all I would like to state that I have visited with a great deal of people in the community and I am happy that most of the people that I visited with are here today so that I don't have to second guess their throughts or some of the things that - what and hope, and I would like to invite each one to speak for themselves in regards to the particular projects. For several months now, we have been looking at Memorial Hall as a possibility of a neighborhood center and also Centennial Park as another, now our centennial center. Now let me give you a little background on this and tell you some of the - I think that it has been kind of a controversial issue whether we are going to have it, where we are going to serve the most people. My concern is how is this going to be staffed and how is it going to be taken care of? This was the major aspect that I did the study from, because I know from experienc that you can build a lot of buildings, and if you don't have programming, if you don't have staffing the buildings don't do you any good. We looked at Memorial Hall and to see just what can be done with and how we could use it which would be of service to the neighborhood in particular to the neighborhoods in the north side of the town and to the center, and hopefully it would be considered a place where many of the youth could come in. One of the first duties or one of the first surveys I looked at was the survey that the KCCD gave me on juvenile problems and ever since I have been in this office, there have been many, many people concerned about how do we fit the needs of the juveniles here in our city of Salina. Particularly the young people, who after school, teenagers, junior high want a neighborhood center really would consist of a place for them to go, a place for them to feel free to be part of, where they wouldn't have to pay anything, where they could go in and if they wanted to shoot a few basketballs they can do that, if they want to play some ping-pong or if they just wanted to be in a place where they can visit, congregate or be creative. And from my own experience I know that this is a big order, and I think we have a lot of people in our own town who are able to help us to provide those needs. Memorial Hall is there, and I see it as a very viable place to provide this. We have a lot of empty space that isn't being used. We have a large gym there that can be used. We have places that can be used for ping-pong, pool, cards whatever you would want to have. We wouldn't have any kind of religious affiliation where people and every church, I don't want this to sound wrong, but what I mean to say is we wouldn't have problems with, you know some can't dance and some vary, and some can't play cards. This would be a place where kids can come and just be a part of the community. And it wouldn't be structured. I don't see that we have much in this community on a non -structured basis. I also see Memorial Hall as a place where many people interested in people orientated services can gather together, where we can use some of those facilities for that purpose. I take these just out of random not for any particular thing but I can certainly see places like Emergency Food Bank using part of Memorial Hall. I can see places, a young lady that I am very impressed with that I have met with this Michelle Knight, who works for this Help -a -Youth Program that could possibly work there at Memorial Hall. Someone asked me are you going to practice what you preach, would you be willing to bring Little House at Memorial Hall? There isn't any question in the fact that I enjoy my independence so I have to kind of look back and think would I be willing to do this, and I believe in it enough I guess I probably would. But the value of this type of thing is that the people we have here in this town can gather together and working in the same area where we can share ideas, where we can learn to appreciate one another's ideas rather than always trying to be in competition with one another. I can see meeting rooms at Memorial Hall where all clubs and all organizations can come there and can meet in a decent place. And so it can be used not only - one section of that building can be used for social or people orientated kinds of activities and the other section can be used for a neighborhood center. One that would be open perhaps from 3 to 10, because there is where we really need for our young people, where do they go after school? But not all of this can sound - I don't think it is out of reach but of course it needs to be properly staffed. Now in this type of -• and it has to be fixed. It is not just that - I talked to several people, and we do have a feasibility plan, and I believe you all have it there, on Memorial Hall and on Centennial Park. But I did bring in people that I thought could give some input. Solomon Oliver who is presently the head of the CAC, and Helen Crawford who was there with us, Oliver Green who is president of NSRA, John Chalmers I invited in because he had worked on this neighborhood community center to go through. Representatives of the YWCA who are Grace Evans and Linda Massey went through this with me. The League of Women Voters, there was I think 1 1 about 20 people who went through the hall and saw some of the - and we explained some of the activities there. Sister Mary Lou Roberts, who works with the Emergency Food Bank, Norma Burnett who works with the children in the schools as a social worker. Bill Isreal who works with Passport for Adventure. All of these people, I don't know if I missed any, went through Memorial Hall and we went through this the same procedure as I am talking about right now. I also talked to, about this, Geraldine Briscoe, Carolyn Zerger, Will Burnett. I had the opportunity to talk to a group of people at the Sunrise Presbyterian Church who are interested in some of the social activities and helping youth in this community. I talked with the YWCA Board and I don't know if I missed any, but these, I think I have got a rather good perspective of the people in the community I felt it was a rather positive reception. There are, and I hope that people after I finish will say what they have to say, because I feel like I would like to hear this and the Commission should hear it. There are some negative view points - and I guess this is why I was a little unhappy when I heard about it going into consultation again because here we are. Now we have 2 proposals which very decidedly speak to capital gains which I believe you all have there. And that is on Memorial Hall and I don't know whether you want me to go through that, I think this is probably something that you should run, or maybe Keith can. We would be talking about, and I would say that, as I interpreted the staff meeting on the preparing of this, that these are suggestions, these are things that we would feel that to other people's viewpoints, but it looks to show some faith as in effect we are working on it and that we are actually doing it. We see the installation of an elevator at Memorial Hall, mainly because it would not be dealing only with the youth and young people, but elderly people, but hopefully also handicapped children or people who with it would almost be a necessity. The renovating of the rooms, the electrical work, and perhaps putting a net type curtain in the gym area to separate the courts because so often the experience I have had with youth centers, any many times after school you will get the high school students and then the grade school and it is pretty hard putting them on the same court, but this court is large enough that they can use at the same time. There would be many, many aspects of this which of course would have to be under discussion. The Centennial Park, as we saw it would be a place where there would be some type of a ... Commissioner Graves - Carmen, should we keep these separate now, and talk about Memorial Hall and then talk about Centennial Center, would that help it do you think Mayor? Mayor Simpson - Yeah, I think it would be well to do that because of the.... Carmen - Then I leave it at that point and I would just say that I would like to leave it open for discussion, but my recommendation is that we have immediate action on it so we may do so. Thank you very much. One other question I do have a letter here from Glorine Shelton that she would like for me to give but this is, she is giving this as an individual not as a member of the League of Women Voters. Commissioner Graves - Of course if we were using CAC money set aside for neighborhood centers, this would be in lieu of rebuilding on the site of the old Carver Center. Is that not correct? Now, I know that the neighborhood center subcommittee of CAC in August recommended that only one center be built. I am looking at Solomon to see if he will not yes or no, that one center be built and it be built on the site of Carver Center after Carver Center is razed. Now, if we went along with this this would preclude that. We would be saying we would be spending CAC money ... Mayor Simpson - CD Commissioner Graves - CD money, I have to get my alphabet soup right, to build a new center at Centennial and use that money to renovate Memorial Hall for a center in lieu of the Carver Center site. Just so we understand that that is probably the way that it would be. Of course, after the neighborhood subcommittee made that proposal, then the bond issue passed feeing up Memorial Hall; so suddenly there was this big, good, structurally sound building available that was not available when you made your report, so I can understand why that wasn't even a consideration at the time the subcommittee was meeting, so just by saying that I thought maybe some of these people want to comment. I Solomon Oliver - I am encouraged by what has been said up there today. We have been working on this thing for about 3 years now. Some things that have been said here today I agree with and some that I violantly disagree with. Incidentally, Memorial Hall was considered, but we ruled out Memorial Hall for several reasons, and I still have the same objections to Memorial Hall, and that is the traffic problem. That is no place to put any type of recreation center where children are going. Number one you have a parking problem and you have dust a moving traffic problem. I don't know any way at all that you would be able to do anything about the moving traffic problem in and around there. Now a recreation center as such will have children of all ages coming in at any time that it is open, and this is one thing that you must definitely consider is the traffic problem. I heard something come from there, but I think something else needs to come from that bench. Somebody needs to say officially that the Carver Center project is dead, because that has been on your desk for a year anyway. People in the community want to know what is with the Carver Center project? And if it is dead, then someone needs to say that it is dead. I don't think that it is right to go around or expeeding to go around looking at other places while we still have this project laying on the desk, so if it is dead, just say ii is dead. Let's get on with it. I don't fully agree with Memorial Hall for another reason. I support it reluctantly. I don't think it is the proper place, I don't think it will serve the needs of a community center. I really don't, because of its location. It should be, and you just gave some figures up there today which supprised me, I had not been aware the population had shifted so violently as it has; but a community center or a recreation center needs to be located where the people are. Basically because the people that we are going to serve and the people that we are trying to reach are the younger people. Now the older people (unintelligible) but the younger people are the people we are trying to serve, and a lot of them will be walking and will be bicycling, and it needs to be close to wherever they are. I agree with Memorial Hall and Carmen talking about it because I felt, at that time, this was several months ago, that the Carver Center project was dead. That was still my first love was Carver Center place where it now because of the swimming pool, and because of the baseball facilities across the street. But I felt that it was dead and so I did go along with the project that she has on Memorial Hall even with all of its drawbacks. There is one thing we need to be careful about and I think it would be a mistake to put any government office or any government any of Salina's governing offices in that building if you are going to make it a recreation center. People in Salina don't like to go places where Salina's government is. Now, this is a basic fact. I don't know if the Commission knows it or not, that this is a basic fact. People are afraid to come down to this building and anyplace where you have a Salina government office situated, people are going to be afraid to come there and those are the people we are trying to draw in, so I think it would be a basic mistake to put any type of governmental office in that building at all. Anything that is not connected with recreation shouldn't go in there. I think that the point that was made up there today that the recreation commission should be brought in on this, my personal feeling is I would like to see the Recreation Commission abolished and the city take over recreation. But I know this is out the window so I guess I am the only one that has got guts enough to stand up and say that. A lot of people feel it but they won't say it. But there are a lot of things that we must take into consideration before we barge into anything. I do not think that time is of the essence. I don't think this thing is as pressing as it has been presented to be. We have waited this long, I would rather see us wait a little bit longer and do it right. Now if this means getting professional consultants, lets wait a little bit longer and get professional consultants. Let's don't barge into this thing and do it half way. Let's do it right, let's set up the staff, let's set up programs, let's have the thing operating the way it should be. If we don't you are going to have another Carver Center. Mayor Simpson - Yeah, I think this is the thing that propably bothered me and bothered the rest of the Commissioners, Solomon, is the question of Carver Center, and you talk about its need or a community center's need to be in a population area accessible, and I see the Northeast Industrial Park taking out all of the housing and all of the neighborhood in that area. And what I think I have been wrestling with, certainly the rest of the Commissioners I am sure as well, can the functions that were being handled in Carver Center be done as well or better perhaps and expanded in Memorial Hall? 1 1 '2. a21 Solomon - Yes, definitely, we discussed that yes. Commissioner Graves - that they can be you mean? Mayor Simpson - And so, you know, that is why I am trying to weigh, you know, are we better rebuilding Carver Center in its existing location or trying to expand what Carver Center means and can do in Memorial Hall? Solomon - Mr. Mayor, I think it is going to be a trade off. When you trade off I think it is going to come out way in favor of Memorial Hall. This is why I started thinking, changing my thinking several months ago. I think I go along with Mrs. Graves that there is a lot of sentiment connected with this whole project and I tried to rule it out and can't all the time, but I threw out the sentimentation of dollars and cents. Mayor Simpson - I think the reason there hasn't been an official death nill run for Carver Center because I don't think any of us really considered it dead. It was just you know, where should it best be located and serve that community? Solomon - Well it is definitely not with the population where it is now. That is for sure. Commissioner Duckers - One of the things that concerned me the most anguish in trying to make this decision is the fact that, like you sir and others, I have worked very hard on that CAC and I know when you work on a committee and the committee worked on that and studied it and everything and they came to us with a recommendation, but I kind of feel that after they made their recommendation a lot of things happened, and maybe if they had it to do over again they would not be recommending a building, per se, on that site. Not the elimination of the swimming pool, but I really don't believe there is all that much relationship between the swimming pool and a center; and if what you say is true and I think it is, that it should be in a population center that just isn't, and it is not going to be again. It is going to be an industrial park, and so it seems to me it is more a psychological center than it is a neighborhood center any more. Solomon - If you will remember, Sir, on our first recommendation, we requested that no action be taken on it until all the rest of this stuff was in so we could see what was going to happen. And I agree with you, a lot of things did happen which kind of changed the whole picture. Commissioner Duckers - And another side of the coin is the swimming pool is too good just to abandon. And, but .. so can you have it just there kind of by itself if you tear down the old center and ... Carmen - I would like to address that. I mean, in discussing this I think there is many things that we - and we have considered a lot of - whereas aspects. First of all there is some sentiment behind Carver Center, but the pool does serve a population. And I can't see why you know we couldn't do something with the funds that we have to improve that pool, so that pool can be used a great deal more than it is, to make the park, to fix the park so that it could be used. There can be a great deal of improvement on the park itself. Outdoor facilities. So you are not really destroying one aspect for another. It could seem to me to be a combination of things where you can - I can see some of Solomon's misgivings, and I mean they make sense, but I think you have to see what you have and where you are going to go from there, but if we will invest in some monies to really improve the park situation and improve the pool situation you still have the Carver Park. And you still have it serving this community. Lancer Martin - I have 2 questions I know to ask about the pool. Now will this, will the pool be worked on this year? It is going to take work on it this year. Mayor Simpson - Is the staff aware of the needs there? Lancer - For one thing the pump went out last year. Don Harrison - I can answer that. They are repairing the pump. They have got the motor and they had the pump rebuilt. Lancer - Okay, number 2, is - it is like new diving boards need to be over there and one other question. Three, I think they should tear Carver Center down from that pool. Commissioner Duckers - The building? i Lancer - Yes, because it has been a hassle to the pool. I think we should look over that pool awfully good. I think the pool should be open. I think we should have a zoning law where it would get used more. As you say it is a good pool and this is the first year since 1950 something that really any considerable work is being done on this pool, so I think it has held up pretty well and I hope we can get that. isn't it? Commissioner Graves - That pool is basically in pretty good shape Lancer - Real good shape. Commissioner Graves - It just needs to be maintained on a yearly ... Commissioner Duckers - ... annual maintenance. Lancer - Well the maintenance is good on it except last year like I said since the pool has been open this is the first one, the pump went out. Commissioner Graves - So you think that a park with the pool would be more beneficial right there in that neighborhood than would that building and a pool? Lancer - Well we need some little facilities around the pool like benches and things like this and maybe a little landscaping done on the outside of the pool where people can come and sit around the pool. Commissioner Graves - Picnic tables and some ... Commissioner Duckers - But as far as the activities that are being carried out in the building now, they could be carried out in Memorial Hall or wherever a neighborhood center were located? The various groups and clubs that meet there. They don't tie to the swimming pool in any way. Lancer - No, the swimming pool has a building of its own. Commissioner Graves - So they really operate separately. The people that use the pool are not necessarily using the center and so on. Mayor Simpson - Has the use, Lancer, remained fairly constant? The number of people using the pool. You have been running it how long now? Lancer - For three years. The use of the pool is more or less used by the North Salina smaller kits. When you get to be a teenager you more or less go to the Kenwood pool. Commissioner Duckers - That is one of the things that really concerned me when it came to replacing the building over there. In an era when we are trying to do everything we can to get away from this segregationist attitude and then to come right back and build another building and call it Martin Luther King center, and then it smacks of well now here blacks here is another building for you, and I don't think that that is what we want in Salina and I don't think that is what is happening in 1977. We want a center for all of our people. Linda Massey - I am here on behalf of the YWCA, and I was one privilege to go with Carmen on the tour of Memorial Hall, and I don't know what the ultimat plans for Memorial Hall would be, but should this facility, if it was implemented as a social services, recreational, all neighborhood type center, I can see the social service agencies in there, and all due regard to the gentlemen over her who said that people are afraid of governmental agencies they are not afraid of the food bank and they are afraid of a transient aid facility, and they are not afraid of Little House. There are many, many different agencies that could go in there. Now the YWCA has a membership agency, I don't know whether we would be allowed to base an operation in Memorial Hall or not, but if it should be allowed we would jump at the chance because we have been trying so hard to 1 1 )9 diversify our membership and really make it the multi -racial, multi -cultural agency it was intended to be, so we seem to be in kind of a no man's land over there on Prescott Street, so we are looking for ways to decentralize, and Memorial Hall would be a beautiful opportunity if we could have a corner somewhere on the second, third, fourth floor, we don't care, and see if we can't put in a program that would attract people from North Salina, West Salina, central Salina, that we are not now involving in our program and mostly it would be to develop a teenage leadership corps is what we mostly have in mind here. And we can see a social service agency in Memorial Hall as being a beautiful ground to build this leadership corps around to get these kids working for these agencies for the people and off the streets and out of trouble and all sorts of things that we kind of have in mind there. Carmen and I are still disagreeing on whether membership would be required in this particular agency but I think maybe it would not be, and it would be a branch of the community service arm of the YWCA which Grace Evans and I were representing as we toured Memorial Hall, so I would say our Board of Directors is unanimously in favor of Memorial Hall being utilized in this way. Whether or not the YWCA would base an operation there. Commissioner Graves - Mr. Mayor, I might ask Carmen, did I hear Carmen say she would willing to move Little House over there? Did I hear you say that? Because I think that might be important to demonstrate good faith. You know that you would be willing to take Little House over to Memorial Hall and perhaps Carmen - I would. Commissioner Duckers - Call it Big House. Commissioner Graves - Which brings up another thing. All these children coming in, teenagers and so forth, after school and the people whose mothers and fathers work, the latch key children like we call them, would it not be important to have a staff, have this staffed, have some kind of program. You can't just open a big building and say y'all come. I mean we are talking about staffing this, not just renovating Memorial Hall and where are we going to get the money for that? Helen Crawford - Mr. Mayor, this question of staffing is one that we constantly talked about in the CAC, and we never did resolve the problem. I think we wanted to make recommendations to the City Commission that we do thus - and -so if we have staff to take care of the needs of whatever people would be served in those areas. And I would second and third, if I could, the requests here for staffing wherever any neighborhood center would go, because you are going to have problems untold if you don't have proper staffing. One other thing I would speak to on this, as you are talking about your CD money you well know that that is aimed at low and moderate income families so that don't range too far with the possible relocation of Centennial Center there. Mayor Simpson - That is a good point. Carmen, how have you addressed staffing. Not as, the sharing agencies or others would obviously provide staff, but as far as wherever the city plugs in on the thing. Carmen - I did a staffing proposal. I think if I am going to be totally blunt about this, the City Commission is going to have to make a commitment to say, yes if we have these neighborhood centers, or if we have these community centers, then we are going to have to take the responsibility of staffing them. I mean that is - and it is the same way, and I am sorry if I sound so emphatic, but I think that is where you are going to have to take where you hire other jobs in the City, this is going to have to be a decision that the Commission is going to have to make, whether they want to do it or not. I couldn't envision in my own mind and again I want to emphasize, these are just ideas that I have shared with the staff and with other people in the community where there has to be a lot of feed back in the preparation but in my own mind I couldn't envision even doing the little that I have proposed without at least 3 full time staff members for youth activities, as well as secretarial and janitorial services. Now if the other social agencies go in, of course they must staff their own. If I move Little House, for example, my responsibility would be to staff that as a director of Little House. It would have nothing to do with the City. That would be my responsibility. Whatever other organization came in would have to do their own staffing. I am assuming, and I don't think this is too great an assumption, that there would be a great deal of people working in this type of work who would be more than willing to help, certainly in an advisory capacity, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they would help with programming and be part of it. I am not saying volunteer. It cannot possibly be done on a volunteer basis, and if you brought the other social agencies in, I think you can depend on this help. Another thing that I think is extremely important in this type of proposal, is that you are bringing people together in the community who are orientated towards this social type of thinking. That is invaluable. Whereas rather than to guess what others are thinking, if you have people in the same area where you can have coffee together, where you can visit together and without a doubt there is a possibility of having weekly meetings together for people that would be on the staff, but I do think you have to address the fact that it would cost money. And that is a decision that the ... Commissioner Usher - ... In your study, in putting this together, did you visit with Recreation to see if they had any input, or have ... Carmen - No, I did not visit with them. The only - now when we went with the League of Women Voters, there were some members of the Recreation Commission on the tour. Commissioner Usher - How about CD, can we use part of the city funds that are earmarked for neighborhood centers for staffing? Keith Rawlings - For staffing, no. Commissioner Usher - No way at all? I thought maybe we would get a trade off here someway. Commissioner Graves - Would there be any kind of grants or federal funds for something like this? Commissioner Usher - Of course, what we are about to do, if you are going to create, recreate Memorial Hall, you are going to have to have some kind of additional staff, another department. It appears to me you are about ready to duplicate Recreation Department. Solomon - Mr. Mayor I would like to emphasize that, everone that I talked to on the thing was very definite on that point. If you can't have proper staffing, forget it. Don't do it because you are creating a frankenstein. Carolyn - I think I want to express a concern too on programming and staffing. We hear that Carver Center isn't used, and this is one reason why, there is no staff or program there, and as well as it costing kids to use anything over there. So cost is also would be a concern that I see, again if it is city it can be free for the kids. I am wondering, you brought up CD money which I know can't be used, how about Revenue Sharing money? That I think is not tied up that way, and could be used for staffing, so that might be some route to go on the staffing money. I guess I also stand with Oliver on the Recreation Commission. I think there should be some way to get that under the City Commission. Where that money is being used the way the city wants it used. Mayor Simpson - Keith is this narrowly defined,enough:to�qualify as a neighborhood center under the Community Development funding? Keith - I think so, as long as we are careful that we are not trying to provide something that serves the entire city. We really only came about this after looking at Carver Center and the alternatives there, and this was an alternate course. We are really moving the facilities and services that were occuring at the Carver Center site over 3 or 4 blocks and almost splitting the 2 centers, the satelite centers, at least until something is done, but at the pool, no, I don't think there will be any problems there with construction. Lancer - One other question, if you would move Carver Center, would you move the swimming pool? Would you think about putting the swimming pool in a different location? 1 a`�1 1 Commissioner Usher - I don't think we ever thought of that. Commissioner Duckers - We might at some time when it has to be replaced, 20 years down the road, or something, but as long as it is a serviceable pool, maintain it in that area. Carolyn - How about a bubble on it and make it year around? Mayor Simpson - I would like to see something like that on both of our municipal pools. Commissioner Duckers - that is an excellent possibility. Commissioner Graves - Carolyn do you still take your day care children someplace swimming in the winter? Carolyn - We go to the YM, but it very difficult to arrange scheduling there. We have to fit in and then we have to change. Now we have had to change to mornings so if there was a municipal facility open we would use it. Mayor Simpson - You use Carver in the summertime? Carolyn - Yes. I would say, it is a very good pool, it is very clean it is not overcrowded. Like he says young kids can be there and it is quite safe for them. Commissioner Usher - Well, it seems like the dilemma is the staff. Norris - I think anybody who has worked with CAC and sat in on their steering committees or talked with anyone who has had any ideas since the conception of the term neighborhood facilities, they have talked about staffing, and if you want to talk about a commitment there is only one, there are two sources of funds as I would see it, and only two that I have had anyone even address in three years conversation with me. One of them has already been suggested, this i is revenue sharing and the other one is the CETA program. Comprehensive Employment Training Act. Program which should fit, I would think, for some one or two, part time, it doesn't have to be full time under CETA, this type of thing. I think this would be an opportunity for maybe college, utilizing Marymount and Wesleyan college students, a few, part time basis, something like this, possibly where you aren't stuck with a full time salary and still supplement students as you get junior and senior ace students, I would think, something like this. Commissioner Usher - We need a director though. Norris - I think we can work around that. Commissioner Graves - Wouldn't Carmen, as the Director of Human Resourcep be the director of the center? Norris - Well you can't be everything to everybody, but maybe there is a roll. Carmen - I am government. Commissioner Graves - Oh, you are government, you can't .. Solomon, couldn't she go over there? Commissioner Duckers - Solomon, how did you respond to the lady's point about her group going over there, that wasn't really what you had in mind, that type of group is not feared. Solomon - No, what I was talking about was putting a governmental office in there, as such. You know, say taking a government function and putting it in there. People shy away from government functions. Commissioner Graves - We aren't too much fun. I have had better times. Are you ready for a motion? I move that we proceed with the renovation of Memorial Hall, post haste, and how am 1 going to say this about staffing? explore the possibility of Revenue Sharing Funds and CETA funds. Norris - there is no further exploration to Revenue Sharing, it is an acceptable expenditure and you can make a commitment. You don't have to identify the number of dollars, but make a commitment. I think everyone should be aware we have got a tax lid in the State of Kansas. We haven't had an increase in dollars received from your real estate property since 1969, and the only increase in dollars of taxes that we have enjoyed in the General Funding category for Salina, Kansas, has come from new growth in Salina. We have been very fortunate, for this we apparently have a good climate here for the past 14 years or so, our assessed valuation has shown a very steady increase. And it is from that increase in assessed valuation where we have been able to pick up the additional dollars to maintain the so called status quo, period. Commissioner Duckers - I will second the motion. Mayor Simpson - I don't think the motion is finished yet. Commissioner Graves - that we proceed with renovating Memorial Hall and commit ourselves to staffing the programs that we undertake through the Revenue Sharing Funds and CETA if it is available. motion. Commissioner Duckers - Now all of that I'll second that explicit Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Norris - I would like to raise a couple of questions if I could. Proceed with the renovating. There are a couple of areas that Engineering has discussed. One has been mentioned, the elevators have been mentioned; and then the feasibility or possibility of developing the balcony. Now, we do not have the engineering capability nor the time, oh I shouldn't say that, Dean, you probably think you have the capability, but he doesn't have the time, and I think that what we would appreciate to be able to do here is to get your authorization to contact a private engineering firm or somebody to get into this area of design for the balcony area and the elevator. I think these are 2 places where we feel on staff we need some outside help on, by all means. These are specialty areas and before you leave the subject do you want to address those? Commissioner Duckers - You want an architect to come in and design and present to us something that we can accept or reject, isn't that what you are talking about? Norris - Both the balcony addition and the elevator. We can renovate the existing rooms, or get started on that, the toilet facilities, the electrical, the plumbing, the new windows to the building, certainly that should be done. If you are going to use that building, those old wooden windows have to be replaced. Those are the things I was talking about getting people in and getting it done. Commissioner Duckers - Mr. Mayor I move that we authorize staff to employ professionals as necessary to design and plan for the renovation project of Memorial Hall. Commissioner Usher seconded the motion. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Commissioner Graves - Do you want to take the second part of this then, Carmen, and get into the Centennial Center. Carmen - I would suggest we hold on to that, unless you want me to. Commissioner Graves - Well, the hour is late but a lot of people that maybe are interested in this are here right now, what do you think? 1 1 Carmen - The only thing we discussed on this in staff, is that there wasn't anyone who didn't agree with the need of something that had to be done in Centennial Park, and again I think from what Helen said the reason that center is because the CD funds are addressed to low income, and so that was the reason for the location there. We were thinking in the terms of having some meeting rooms, very decidedly a place for child care center which there is a tremendous need in that area. We thought of a multi-purpose room, small kitchen, a small office, of course some type of a storm shelter. Now along with this building, we were thinking of outdoor play equipment, fence to provide security for the young, some type of sports equipment; and then of course, perhaps some volleyball courts or outdoor basketball courts in an area, now again, I would refer the prices and these various things to engineering, Keith would know more about it than I do. Our only thought there, in discussing the need for the area is, I was out there on a temporary basis for Little House in that small center, and I was amazed at the people who used it, you know in just the very short time we were there - I guess they have 2 or 3 rooms in that small house and they were at times having 18 to 25 people. And the reason for withdrawing from it was, in a sense a very good reason, that there were so many children that came in the morning, in the afternoon, that the equipment that I used in the evening wasn't there, so I thought if I have to keep Little House going I had better close up until we have a better place for that. I think the, I have also parked my car in and around that area after school, and have looked at children running around and no place to go, it would seem to me that - and then again here is staffing when you refer to doing something there at Centennial Park you will also have to do some staffing. I would suggest that it would be a combination where even if we had staff here at Memorial Hall, that it could be intermingled and used accordingly, where you feel kind of as a community is together; but I have no hesitation in saying that perhaps that is the greatest need that we have would be in that area. Mayor Simpson - We have heard many times about the real need for child care facilities in the area. Carmen - Probably more so than anything else. Mayor Simpson - I am wondering if this, just off the top, if this couldn't best be handled by an existing agency or concern and perhaps the city provide space on a cost basis of some type rather than getting in staffing ... Carmen - I wasn't at all implying that the city, if I indicated that I didn't mean it. Mayor Simpson - Perhaps an individual could kind of look after both centers, or a couple of individuals. Carmen - This is what I meant by the staff being from let's say Memorial) Hall and using it, but there is more to the place as I envision it than just a child care center. Mayor Simpson - Yes, oh yes. Carmen - What I was talking about as a staff member is someone who can have programming, and who can promote some type of programming in that area in the recreational aspect, or in the social aspect or whatever that you would call it. The child care, I would assume that if you had child care that it would be done under an independent agency with support from the ... Mayor Simpson - Carolyn, just a point aside from that, what happened to the legislative action that was necessary to impose a local ad valorem tax for child care centers, Salina was excluded on a population basis from the 1976 legislation, has that been corrected yet? Carolyn - as far as I know it hasn't, I think it is in one of these bills that is hanging there to be picked up the end of April, or it may die, I don't know. I would say, if there was a facility there, you aren't going to have a problem to find one of the existing agencies willing to go in and set up a center. Again, your latch key children in this area. We run a very small latch key, you could call it a latch key program for about 15 to 18 kids at Martin Luther King, and we use the Salvation Army facility there a whole lot with those kids because we don't have any room in ours for it, so I would think it would be a good place for families that the small children would be there and after school the school kids would come there, and it would be tremendous. Carmen - I visited the Sunrise Presbyterian Church when I talked with that group, and they kind of have a multi-purpose room and something which our staff, was kind of talking about which is large enough for children to play, they have, and I think they use it for that purpose, they have a basketball goal and some ping-pong and things for them like this, which I would see as being particularly for latch key, particularly for after school purposes and to my knowledge, the adults would use it a great deal too if they had them, because even with the facility they have there now, if there is some type of program they would use it. Carolyn - If you get this under a center, even the latch key part of it, there would be funds available for most of the people out there under the Title 20 funding, so as far as this part of the staff as long as it would somehow be under a center, it qualified for Title 20 funds, ... Commissioner Weisgerber - I don't mean to belabor this location thing too much, but Centennial Center is clear on the West, clear on the corner of the area you serve. If you do have day care facilities in there, and I am guessing, you or Carolyn might know, but won't a lot of people who would use this work in the air base area at some firm there, or Westinghouse, or General Battery South, wouldn't they be up against driving North a mile or a mile and a half and then turning around and doubling back? If it's available, that is not saying it is, but shouldn't, if we let a contract on this or architectural, certainly shouldn't location be a part of this just to check it out? Helen Crawford has brought up the point of the fact that it must be in relatively low income area, but wouldn't that area clear on through and clear on through Lamer Gardens be of perhaps approximately the same income area? Keith - Jack, the southern extremety of the area that is eligible right now is Cloud. Commissioner Weisgerber - Well this is fine, but that would put it close to a lot of people. Keith - It is just one little finger reaching down to reach even Cloud. Commissioner Weisgerber - But you go to Republic, that is 1� mile. I don't know but I feel like it is going to wind up a little bit maybe like the old Carver Center, that is going to be on the extreme edge of an area that is used, and everything is going to be South of it, there will be nothing West of it , there will be nothing North of it, nothing East of it. All South of it. Carolyn - We have a number of families that work South and drive clear up to Martin Luther King to leave their kids, and I think they welcome only having to drive that far. Commissioner Weisgerber - I am sure you are right ... Mayor Simpson - That area is expanding, there has been quite a bit of new building and is considerable amount of new building going on now and would be in the CD neighborhood. Carmen - I know pretty well that there are people baby sitting in that area now. And these tiny homes with many more children than they actually should have, and so I would suspect - I an not even pretending that what we would anticipate building would really meet the needs. It would help the needs, but I don't think it will meet the needs. Mayor Simpson - I was going to say, that certainly will not meet the entire needs for day care facilities in Salina. Carmen - This is another whole issue which I hope some day that we can entertain before the City Commission is the whole city's need for day care. This is just in the aspect of a neighborhood center where we can possibly use, kill two birds with one stone and go ahead and get a day care center there because of the CD funds and the neighborhood facilities, but when it comes to providing for the needs of day care I think then we have another whole ball game which hopefully the City Commission will entertain. 229 Commissioner Graves - Carmen, in your heart of hearts do you think that Centennial Park is the right place for the center? Carmen - I do. Based on the situation we have now. The CD funds, the low income ... Solomon - I keep coming up to look like a negative person, and I am not really, but I think you ought to go a little slow here again in that that area is really not designed to handle a great deal of traffic. And again you are going to run into this traffic problem now. I am not saying don't put it here, but I say this is something that needs to be looked at, and I am sure an engineer will, I can see the brains spinning there now, but this is something that definitely needs to be looked at, because if you put a center in there it is going to increase the traffic. Mayor Simpson - I think at this point in time it might be advisable to entertain a motion, at this point have the architectural, engineering consulting firm come in for the development of the center and address some of these technical problems that are involved and to give suggestions on the staffing needs there ... Keith - Within the confines of the Centennial Park? Commissioner Weisgerber - Within the confines of the little area or the big area you are talking about? Norris - the project area. Commissioner Graves - I will move that an architect be hired to study the possible location, design and utilization of Centennial Center, in the project area. Commissioner Duckers - seconded the motion. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. Mayor Simpson thanked the people present for their participation, consideration and patience. The following items were brought to the floor for discussion: Helen Crawford asked the Commissioners to speak into their microphones as it is difficult to hear in the back of the room. Kenneth Jorgensen from Bennett Pontiac, Inc. was present and asked the City Commission to reconsider the bids submitted earlier in the meeting by Bennett Pontiac, because he now has the good faith check. Mr. Bengtson explained that when bids are received the City calls for certain things to be done, and to allow a bidder to alter a bid, or to come in an hour or two later, would be wrong and thinks the Commission should go by the bid documents and not consider the bid as it did not meet the specifications at the time bids were received. Commissioner Weisgerber brought up the matter of the bids received on Engineering Project 77-614, and what the commission feels it should do about the situation. Mr. Don Schoof was present and again discussed the definition of the terms "tie" and "discount" The Commissioners, staff, and representatives of Brown & Brown, Inc. and Smoky Hill, Inc. discussed the terminology. The Commissioners did not take any action. A MOTION was made by Commissioner usher, seconded by Commissioner Duckers that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. -S D. L. Harrison, City Clerk