09-28-1978 MinutesIS
City of Salina, Kansas
Special Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
September 28, 1978
The Special Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met on Thursday,
September 28, 1978, at seven thirty o'clock at the Salina High School South
Auditorium for the purpose of the presentation of the South Salina Drainage
Study by Wilson and Company, Engineers and Architects, for the benefit of
interested area residents, and to discuss the physical and monetary consideration
of the Study.
There were present:
Mayor Jack Weisgerber, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Keith G. Duckers
Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Commissioner Karen M. Graves
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Lauren Gray, County Commissioner
Wayne Lockard, County Commissioner
Jim Martin, County Commissioner
Dennis Poer, Secretary of the Salina Insurance Board
Absent:
None
Maurice Bowersox and Ralph Ricklefs, Wilson and Company, Engineers and
Architects, made a 30 minute slide presentation of the South Salina Drainage
Study.
Dennis Poer, Salina Insurance Board - Thank you, Mayor Weisgerber.
Most of my remarks will be directed to the Federal Flood Insurance Program, as
it has to do with property owners. The reason for that is automobile risks are
already covered by insurance that is available in the standard markets. If you
have automobile insurance and you have covered your automobile for physical
damage you undoubtedly have flood insurance. There are two basic forms of
physical damage insurance, excluding collision, you have comprehensive coverage
which is the all risk coverage and it includes flood insurance and you have
another coverage that generally is written to reduce the rate by avoiding the
windshield type claims and that is called fire and theft and combined additional
coverage which includes flood coverage as well. So automobiles are properly
covered under the standard markets. Property insurance is not covered under the
standard markets and basically the reason is the people that live in the low
areas want to buy the insurance and the people that live on the hills don't want
to buy the insurance and the insurance companies cannot actuarilly determine a
fair and appropriate rate. The Federal Government recognized that and began a
program some years ago. The City of Salina joined the flood insurance program
in 1973, 1 want to say, it might have been 1974, but I think it was 1973. Since
that time flood insurance has been available to the citizens of Salina. Saline
County went into the program 2 years ago. A flood is a general and temporary
condition, which is noted by inundation of rising waters, overflow of streams,
or rivers, and something we are not too excited about here are tidal waves and
tidal surges. It is also covered in the definition of a flood, severe storms or
a deluge. Those are covered items. Not covered under a flood policy is loss
from the water or mud slide, which results solely from causes at the location,
for example if you turn your sprinkler on and go on vacation, the flood policy
will not cover that loss that will surely occur. It does not cover erosion, it
does not cover losses in progress at the time the application is made, and it
does not cover seepage or sewer back up unless a general flood condition exists.
It is completely available to the citizens of Salina and Saline County. Any
property owner can buy flood insurance and you can buy it from any insurance
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WAIVER AND CONSENT TO HOLD A SPECIAL MEETING
OF THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
Board of Commissioners of the City of Salina, Kansas, do hereby waive notice and
consent to the holding of a special meeting of the Board of Commissioners on the
28th day of September, 1978, at 7:30 P.M., at the Salina High School South
Auditorium, for the purpose of the presentation of the Salina Salina Drainage
Study by Wilson and Company, Engineers and Architects, for the benefit of
interested area residents, and to discuss the physical and monetary consideration
of the Study.
Dated this 28th day of September, 1978. / )
Commissioners
We,
the undersigned, being
the duly elected, qualified
and acting
Commissioners
of the City of Salina,
Kansas, and constituting a
majority of the
Board of Commissioners of the City of Salina, Kansas, do hereby waive notice and
consent to the holding of a special meeting of the Board of Commissioners on the
28th day of September, 1978, at 7:30 P.M., at the Salina High School South
Auditorium, for the purpose of the presentation of the Salina Salina Drainage
Study by Wilson and Company, Engineers and Architects, for the benefit of
interested area residents, and to discuss the physical and monetary consideration
of the Study.
Dated this 28th day of September, 1978. / )
Commissioners
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agent. No insurance group has a corner on the market in the flood insurance
program. There is a 15 day waiting period from the time the application is
taken until the policy can be made effective, so it is hard to look west and
decide when to call your agent. We are insured under the emergency flood program
that the government has and that merely means that we are insured under the
general program where the rates are not actuarilly determined for a given location;.
That is, I am sere, because of the size of our city. We cannot get the spread
of risk that is needed to have the federal government tell us exactly what the
rates are. The maximum amount of insurance, I think, should be mentioned. For
single family residences you can buy up to $35,000 for the dwelling and $10,000
on the contents. For other residential properties, duplexes, apartments, you
may buy $100,000 of insurance on the building and $10,000 on the contents.
Other structures, meaning commercial properties and such, you may have $100,000
coverage on either or both the building and the contents. The coverage is
written on an actual cash value basis, which means you have your loss is determined
by finding the replacement cost of your loss less the depreciation for the item
involved. Obviously a suit of cloths is going to depreciate at a much faster
rate than the dwelling itself. There is a deductible. The deductible applies
separately to each structure and the contents. The deductible is 2% of the
amount of the loss, or $200.00, whichever is greater. So if you would have a
building and content loss you are looking at a $400.00 deductible before receiving!
payment from the federal flood insurance program. There is a 10% extension on
the dwelling coverage that you may apply to other appertenant structures at your
location. This is also subject to an additional deductible and it is not an
additional amount of insurance. The rates are divided into the same line that
the maximum coverage is. You have residential rates and you have commercial
rates. Both the single family and the other residential rates have an insurance
rate of 25� per $100.00 of insurance for the building, and 35A for the contents.
The commercial structures, the building may be insured at 40{: per $100.00 and
contents at 75� per $100.00. There is a minimum premium in this policy of
$25.00. Now that is an overview of the availability and the coverage and the
rates and I'll be glad to answer any questions from the Commissioners or from
the audience, as time allows.
Mayor Weisgerber - Now we have the Commissioners, we have the insurance,
we have the Wilson and Company Engineers. For the benefit of the news media,
when you have a question if you don't mind if you would come down and address it
to this microphone and to whomever you would like an answer, it would be helpful
to them. If you don't feel like leaving your place we will try to repeat your
question for you, but they would like to catch your questions over this microphone;
if at all possible; so who would like to lead off? State your name too, if you
would please.
Doug Galloway, 711 Neal - I have lived there since 1972, and I have
got 4 basic questions that I would like to ask the City Commission, and #1 is,
at this time I would like to know, for the people, for myself, for my own benefit,!
what has been done as far as trying to find a way to solve the problem that we
all have? Can somebody answer me?
Commissioner Simpson - First thing is I think the study we are reviewing;
this evening, to define the area of the problem geographically and to review
what can be done and the cost and to work on methods of funding.
Doug Galloway - Now that has been done?
Commissioner Simpson - That is the presentation we are reviewing this
evening.
Doug Galloway - I understand at the last meeting I was at that there
was a question arise, I seen the same thing that I seen tonight, and this has
been a month or so or two months ago, I don't remember the exact day, was the
same thing then, they accepted it then. Has there any further done since that
time? I was under the impression that the city had no intentions of funding out
$10,000,000 to fix the city of things that have gone wrong by construction and
so forth. Am I correct in saying that?
Commissioner Simpson - Well, you said the City Commission has not
adopted a specific program, whether it be Phase I or Phase II or any parts of
those, nor explored to the n'th degree the methods of funding. I think that
is one of the purposes of the meeting this evening ..
Mr. Galloway - .. was to find out what can be done and what we are
going to do.
Commissioner Simpson - Right, and to get citizen input on what you
feel should be done, in what phase these things should be done and the method of
funding that you see because, you know the city is the taxpayers.
Mr. Galloway - Well I understood that in the report there was something
that said there is a certain dollar amount per person for the whole city as a
whole whereas the people that are going to balk on that if they live on the
hill, they don't get flooded, or the people that don't get flooded they are
going to balk on any kind of increase in taxes. I personally, I feel like if it
has got to be paid for by us, I want to know what I can do. I tried to sell my
house. I can't. I had it on the market for six months. I can't sell it and
everybody tells me the same thing, the realtors, I had it listed with two differer
realtors, and they told me the same thing it is because of the flood problem I
can't sell it; so these are the things that concern me. Right now I am living
in a home that has been hit by water. I can't sell it so I am going to have to
live there, and yet I can't seem to find anything or any satisfaction as what is
to be done. My last question is this, can I, personally, protect my own property
by going to the city and asking for a permit to build a dike around my home?
Mr. Bengtson - I think that certainly the city cannot issue permits
for people to put a dike around their house; however, and I think this is a
matter you can take up with your own attorney, this is not a matter the city
attorney ... but the general rules of water rights in Kansas that within the
corporate limits of the cities, you can, whenever it is necessary, protect your
own property.
Mr. Galloway - Since I've got you up, could I ask you one other questi
What, how and what does it say as far as the federal water rights as far as
blockage of the natural runoff?
Mr. Bengtson - Of course in Kansas, I don't know what the federal laws
are, but we have in Kansas, we have one set of laws that controls the natural
waterways within the corporate limits of a city and we have another set of laws
that apply outside the corporate limits of a city. Once you are outside the
corporate limits you cannot block a natural waterway.
Mr. Galloway - But inside the city it doesn't matter?
Mr. Bengtson - It does not.
Mr. Galloway - Thank yo-,
Guy Reinbold, 715 Neal -• ; want to thank Wilson and Company for a nice
presentation. I watched it once be' -)re and it was very good, complete, and I
want to thank the City Commissioners end the County Commissioners for calling
this meeting. There is a few things ',-ire, I may be rambling on, but as Doug
mentioned, our houses in that area are 'lard to sell now. There are several
people that have their houses up for sale, and have had and haven't had any luck
selling them, so I feel that the area has become a depressed area so I would
think that we should have some kind of tax relief if we can't have any help from
the city.
(Applause.)
Mr. Reinbold - I don't know how to go about doing this, uh, what would
be the next step or what would be the step toward trying to get a tax reduction?
Mr. Bengtson - I assume that the only method to achieve a tax reduction,
certainly the City of Salina couldn't do it for you, however if your property is
as devalued as apparently it is not being resaleable, I think you ought to go
down to the County Assessor's office. Taxes are based on a valuation and if
your valuations are lowered your taxes are going to be lowered, and this would
be your only method.
Mr. Reinbold - Yeah, but I am talking about compared to the other
portions of the city. You go down there and they talk about well it was assessed
back in '68 and now the values have increased, so therefore it is worth more now
than it was when it was assessed, we are just going to increase the taxes, but
this isn't what I am talking about. I am talking about in comparison to the
other part of the city.
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Mr. Bengtson - The city has no legal authority to assess one area more
than another, and as to the valuation that is placed on your property, the city
has absolutely nothing to do with that, that is a matter of the County, and all
of your taxes are based on a valuation basis.
Mr. Reinbold - I can see I am not getting anyplace with you. On the
regulations as far as to the builders and the developers, I understand there was
a program adopted to rewrite all of the drainage regulations plus other regulation
on the developers and the builders, uh, this thing of allowing builders and
constructors to just indescriminitely put up additions without even taking
drainane into consideration, uh, really doesn't make any sense to me and I don't
see why it was ever allowed to go this far. Has there been any, any new regulations
made against the builders or developers as far as drainage in future developments?
Commissioner Geis - I don't know if there has been any regulations
made against the developers but the planning commission is working on tightening
up those regulations on new subdivisions which in effect will make the developer
take into account drainage for the area that he is trying to bring into the city
to develop, but ...
Mr. Reinbold - .. Is there going to be any teeth in it, I mean are
they going to be able to enforce it and who is going to be the criteria to
determine whether it is adequate drainage or not.
Commissioner Graves - Mr. Reinbold, one of the things that the Wilson
study recommended that I think we are really going to look very seriously at,
the three things, is that we adopt a standard design criteria, that we approve a
master drainage plan and that we force developers to comply with that master
drainage plan that they have to have a workable drainage plan, that they file
with their preliminary plat and when we say the developers that is eventually
going to be the home owner, isn't it? The cost is going to be passed on to them
which means will be more expensive.
Mr. Reinbold - Well, it is either they do it or I do it.
Commissioner Graves - Well, that's right, and I think we are going to
look very seriously at an ordinance that would require developers to file a
workable drainage plan that would fit into each other so that we don't have 18"
pipes running into 24'' pipes.
Mr. Reinbold - What have you done about it so far?
Commissioner Graves - Well, we are here.
Mr. Reinbold - Well, I mean has there been any, anything done in this
direction other than this?
Commissioner Graves - We have not passed an ordinance yet, no.
Commissioner Geis - But Karen, we did slow down, remember the area up
in Country Club section on that drainage out there, we took that into account on
that drainage plan. Yeah we are working on it where we can ..
Mr. Reinbold - .. Yeah, but I notice that builders since the flood
have continued to build in obvious areas that will create problems.
i Commissioner Graves - !.there?
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Mr. Reinbold - Well, right behind me. These behind Post Oak Lane,
they have been allowed to continue construction there, and apparently, obviously
you are not going to do anything about Post Oak Lane which has created a dike
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that has prevented the flow of water in that area. The last time I said anything
about it you said well it has already been approved so there isn't anything you
can do about it. Well, the way I look at it, you people approved it, you could
surely recind it. I don't see why you can't or at least what is it going to
take? What will it take to prevent them to continue building where there is an
obvious possibility of them putting damage on my property? When they build
houses there at Post Oak Lane, their house is going to be anywhere from 5' to 6'
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higher than mine and when they all of the water from their yards is going to
drain right down in our back yard or it is going to create a pond right there in
that whole area.
Mr. Bengtson - I think maybe this is one of the things this new
drainage study will speak to in the subdivision regulations; however at this
time I can't help but point out a problem that we have, that is really a problem,
that we can't do a thing about. As you know Bonnie Ridge was developed outside
of the city limits ..
Mr. Reinbold - .. Yeah, but the city took it on and it is their obligat
to protect our property.
Mr. Bengtson - And when we got it it had inadequate drainage. Now what
we have tried to, and we think the state law authorizes it we think that we
should be able to approve any plat within a three mile area because eventually
they are coming into the city, but apparently we had not ... this control and
until we do you can see what is going to happen, an area develops right adjacent
to the city, then the city takes it in, any regulations we have is not going to
be applicable whatsoever.
Mr. Reinbold - But, you have since it has become part of the city, you
have allowed people to build houses in that area, you have allowed streets to be
added into that area without adequate drainage, and it has been in the city at
that time.
Mr. Bengtson - Well yes, but we have nothing in our ordinance that
would prohibit the building ..
Mr. Reinbold - .. It is not a matter of ordinance, it is a matter of
common sense in my opinion.
can't
Mr. Bengtson - Well, unless we have an ordinance to prohibit it, we
Mr. Reinbold - Well, I'm not getting anyplace with you.
Commissioner Geis - I see a basic conflict here because the gentleman
that spoke just before you wanted the city to enact some kind of ordinance that
would allow him to build a dike in his yard, and you are asking us to enact an
ordinance that wouldn't allow him to do it, and ...
Mr. Reinbold - No, how would that ...
Mr. Galloway - I want to protect my property not destroy somebody
else's.
Commissioner Geis - But sir, in the process of protecting your property
often times it generates a problem for neighbors.
Mr. Galloway - That's what they've done to me.
Mr. Reinbhold - So if you aren't going to do anything about that why
can't we protect our own property. It is the negative approach but ..
Unidentified man - Scott Street was put in just about a year ago and
that damn thing has caused nothing but just a ... in there there is no way for
the water to get out and it doesn't take an engineer or anything else to see
this, but yet the city allowed this to be built. Now they are bulding houses
and putting water all the way up to our .. last week we had that 2'' rain and ...
it came within 8 feet of getting in his house. That is 2 inches, 2 inches, what
happens when I get 3? Hell no, if you don't live down there you don't worry
about it. And here you have been fighting this thing and arguing about it and
nothing has been done.
Unidentified man - They haven't even bothered to go no one I have
never seen a road grader or nothing else even clean out the ditches on Ohio
Street since I have lived out there. Not once. That may not solve the problem
but it would dang sure help. Anything that could be done whether it cost $50,000
for a survey or $10,000,000 if it has got to increase my taxes, then dang it
increase my taxes. I want the water problem solved.
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Mr. Reinbold - Why is the County sitting high and dry here and they
say well there isn't anything they can do about it because I mean, that they are
going to do about it because even though a lot of their property causes our
problem why should they do anything about it because it is not hurting anything
in the county. Are you planning to do anything about it?
County Commissioner Lockard - The County has no definite plans; however
I am sure the County in some way will if any of these plans are adopted the
County would do some funding on structures in the county right-of-ways to go
back a little ways. When the Bonnie Ridge area was developed and some of the
other areas out there the County at that time did not have a working planning
commission or planning and zoning regulations that we have today. We are in a
position today to prevent those things happening in the future we hope. We have
a new set of planning and zoning regulations, planning department, planning
staff. We are watching those things. !,las there any other question I haven't
answered? Anyone else have any while I am up here?
Unidentified woman - I have talked to a gentleman that works for the
Corps of Engineers here about a year ago right after the flood and he told me
that all we had to do was get that water to the levee. The Corps of Engineers
would take it from there. Now I would like to know if this amount of money we
are talking about is talking about the pumping station to get it over the dike
and down the river channel or if you are just talking about the different areas
over to the levee, because I do know for a fact I talked to somebody that they,
the Corps of Engineers will take it, all we have to do it get it to the levee.
County Commissioner Lockard - The Engineer's I am sure will correct me
if I am wrong, but this phase I will get the water from the south running off
the fields from the south in and through the Bonnie Ridge area over to the dike.
Maurice Bowersox - If I understand your question, you are saying that
the Corps of Engineers would fund a pumping station?
Unidentified woman - they told me over the telephone they told me over
the phone that all we had to do was get the water to the levee and they would
take it from there. They woUld get the pumping station, pump it over and down
the river channel.
Maurice Bowersox - The Corps of Engineers would fund the project for
the pumping station? In our ... converstation with the Kansas City District, it
has generally been the policy and especially in the case of the first ditch just
south of Bonnie Ridge we are ... approximately 1500 acres that formerly flowed
into Bonnie Ridge, diverting it to the east into the Smoky Hill River, the part
that is out of the city not only consists. of a large drainage structure, gravity
flow structure, to the levee but also it consists of a large ponding area. We
investigated pumping this run off over the levee but the cost compared with the
purchase of right-of-way and the ponding area was considerably more. Besides
the cost, the probability of the failure of pumps during the time of need was
also the reason we do not suggest having a pumping station. Even though we are
diverting the water to the Smoky Hill River, we haven't had any indication that
the Corps would fund the project although we have certain regulations that we
must follow and must meet their approval. They have never indicated to us when
we discussed it with them they would fund it.
Unidentified woman - You discussed it with them? The whole, plan about
getting it through the levee and down the river channel?
Mr. Bowersox - This was in the preliminary stages when we met with the
Corps.
Unidentified woman - Well, I called them two different times, and
unless. 1 got hold of a crackpot in the office, this is what I was told. Now I
would just like to know if this is correct, if you have talked to the Corps of
Engineers and asked them. I discussed it at length with . on the phone, and
can't remember his name but I have got it on paper at home, and he told me that
that is all we had to do was get it there.
Mr. Bowersox - Well, I'll say again we talked with them in the prelimin
stages and had not asked them since that time because they gave us an answer
then. Now did you ... obviously I cannot answer now, maybe they changed their
minds, but when we talked to them they would not fund it.
Unidentified woman - I was also told that they only inspect their
areas in Salina in this area once a year and I am wondering, at the time I
talked to them was shortly after the flood last year, does anybody know when the
last time the Corps of Engineers were out here to inspect this area?
Mr. Bowersox - I don't. The City Manager ...
Unidentified woman - We had a problem over by Mission Road where they
were filling in that area over in there and that was designated ponding.
Mr. Olson - I believe they inspect twice a year, it is my understandingll
they do a spring and fall inspection, and they will inspect the condition of the
dike, the condition of the flap or sluice gates, the operations of any screw
driven gates, pumps, any erosion, matters of this type. How far they come back
inland to investigate the problems of impoundment, washing or anything of
nature, I am not sure, and do you Dean, or anybody know, when they were in town
the last time?
(Unintelligible.)
Mr. Olson - He said they concur, they do only come in twice a year,
but neither of us know when they were in town last time. If you want to give us
your name, we can find out and call you ...
I am Dixie Covington, and I would like to know.
Unidentified woman - Can I ask a question of the Engineer? The first
2 phases you described the price tag of 9 million dollars, that correct existing
problems in existing developments there were 6 or 7 or 8 more phases, do you
have to have phase 1 and 2 on the line, in place in order for 7 through 9 to
work, or can 7 through 9 design to work independently? Do I make myself clear.
Mr. Bowersox - Yes, you do have several phases. Phase 1 and 2 basically,
improve the existing development, flood drainage of the existing development, but
also provide outlets for all future drainage systems so phases 1 and 2 are
basically constructing the outlets for all those areas so you cannot construct
phases 7, 8 and 9 without constructing phases 1 and 2, because phases 7, 8, and
9 in the upper system and they would have no way to discharge.
Unidentified woman - can you break down phase 1 and 2? We hear from
people on Neal Avenue because they were the ones hardest hit. You can't break
that down and relieve particular areas like the people on Neal want in their
own benefit district and it wouldn't work unless you had all the other in place.
You have to buy the whole enchalida in order to get relief, is that it?
Mr. Bowersox - You can break phases 1 and 2. You can construct phases
1 or construct phase 2 because every system within phase 1, we are recommending
the entire construction of phase 1 we feel they are needed to relieve the draina
problems in Bonnie Ridge. ... but all are related and basically I don't think
you can go much smaller than phase 1. (unintelligible.) ...
Unidentified woman - Is this designed for storms of 100 year frequency?
ry
Mr. Bowersox - the major outlets are designed for the storm of 100
year frequency, the major intercepter ditches are designed for 25 year frequency
and the laterals ... are designed for 5 and 10 year frequency, depending on the
... Now the frequency of 5, 10, 25, 100 year frequency there might be some
confusion on that besically since 1977, 1973, 1971, 1963 •. are 100 year frequenc
storms or close to it ... but it goes back to the basic definition of 100 year
frequency or more properly the average occurrence there is no indication any of
these storms will occur at greater intervals so when we say 100 year frequency we
are saying that on the average it occurs once in every 100 years ...
Mayor Weisgerber - Let me tie up one loose end here, one thing that is
a little bit of a carry over. from a conversation you had, Norris correct me if I
am wrong in this but in a conversation I had with our head of our planning
department about this situation, informed me that no additional land along the
south side of Salina is being taken in to be zoned for residential areas. This
won't solve the proposition that you mentioned back on back of you. !That usually
happens when, houses are built, one of the builders or promoters petitions that
the land be brought into the city, it is then rezoned from agricultural to
residential and is platted, and once that is done it is pretty tough to stop, so
1 the areas that are already within the city limits are probably going to go
ahead, but no additional land is being considered along the south edge, where
many of you live until this situation can be resolved. So that is going to be
some help so far as additional land in the city. Now this does not control what
may be built in the County, either residential or commercial, but it will not be
Ibrought into the city. That came up along the way. Do you have more you wanted
to say Maurice? Keith do you have a question or comments?
Commissioner Duckers - I said I would li.ke toose a
p question: to Guy
and to Doug because I know that they along with others were down when Wilson and
Company gave their presentation a few weeks ago, and I know that they probably
were as appalled as we were, not appalled perhaps, just aghast at what the cost
j of this really would be and how on earth it could be paid for. 1y question to
I you two would be during the interval time have you had an opportunity to survey
some of the people in the outlying areas of the so called ''benefit district''
h to determine if in fact they would support a bond issue if it were put to the
voters to the tune of about $84 a year per lot. What is the feed back that you
may have gotten.? Have you anything to say on that to tell us what we might
expect if we took it to the voters because obviously that either a benefit
district or some combination of a benefit district and the city -at -large plus
j perhaps county help and others and whatever other funding we might come up with
;I is the answer to it, but if we are only talking about this many people that
would really be willing to do it, it is a lost cause to begin with and I just
wondered if you had any advise for us on that?
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Mr. Galloway - No, I haven't personally went door to door and checked
with anybody. I am speaking strictly for myself. You are talking $84.00 a year
you are going to pay $400 for flood insurance I would just as soon spend the $80
instead of $1,00. That is the way I look at it.
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ii Unidentified woman - ... how soon can some of us expect to get relief?
�! Commissioner Duckers - I would have to refer that to the engineers
again. How long it would take to implement the plan if it were voted tomorrow,
how long would it be before you would expect to be safe?
Unidentified woman - ... and the dry creek. Why doesn't the city do
something about that? They leave it filled in all the time... clean that dirty
thing ...
Commissioner Duckers - I'll refer that to the Engineering Department.
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Mr. Bowersox - I believe your first question was whether or not you
i would receive relief from the drainage problem. I didn't catch were you live.
Unidentified woman - South Fourth, since 1963.
Mr. Bowersox - Okay, the Fourth Street and the Fourth Street system
and the slough was not proposed in phase 1 or phase 2 construction.
Unidentified woman - (Unintelligible)
Mr. Bowersox - but you would not -be within the benefit area we are
talking about. In your case you would not be paying $84 a year for l0 years,
you are out of the benefit district you are in another system, ... construction
of phase 1 and 2, 1 believe that is in phase 3.
Unidentified woman - How many years before we can get it, we have been
having this trouble before they built out south.
Mr. Bowersox - I can't really answer that how long ...
Unidentified woman - I have asked for years and years and I have no
answers ...
Mr. Reinbold - say we do in this benefit district, we do get go ahead
and get it approved and they have to pay $84 a year and then you go ahead and
adopt the other phases, they are taking, going piggy back on our $84 a year.
What type of compensation would the benefit district get in that case?
Mr. Bowersox - ... In answer to your other question ... even though
you are not in the benefit area, this is not recommended the 4th Street and
slough system are not recommended for phase 1 or 2, you would receive some
benefit from the fact that the Gebhart tract system and Magnolia Road ditch
would be improved and intercept the runoff that would formerly flow through the
Gebhart tract to the north, over Raymond, Down Fourth. You would receive some
benefit ...
Unidentified woman - we have already had water in our yard from the
last rain.
Mr. Bowersox - yes the benefit you would receive from the construction
of phase 1 and 2 would be of secondary nature.
Avenue.
Unidentified man - ...How far north ...
Mr. Bowersox - Phases 1 and 2, the benefit area goes up to Wayne
Unidentified man - ... Cloud and Fourth
Mr. Bowersox - That particular area is not in the benefit district for
phases 1 and 2.
Unidentified man - why not ...
Mr. Bowersox - Because it is in another system. It drains to the
north it does not go to the east or west. It is entirely a different system.
Unidentified man - ... (unintelligible)
Mr. Bowersox - On Fourth Street I agree that the underground storm
sewer on Fourth Street is inadequate. In addition to that besides the small stor
sewers the railroad tracks would not allow any type of secondary overflow ... we
felt the construction of the system ... (unintelligible).
Unidentified man - The $84 is that for single family ...
Mr. Bowersox - That $84 is based on 12t a square foot, a lot square
foot, we determined a 7,000 square foot lot is a typical lot according to the
city planner, ...
Unidentified woman - I think we would all be happy to pay it if we can
just have it. ... We are paying for flood insurance why not pay for protection.
Mr. Bowersox - I didn't answer your question ...
Mr. Reinbold - I don't know who could.
Mr. Bowersox - ... (Unintelligible)
Mr. Reinbold - Well, say we went ahead and got approval on Phase 1 and
2, and you went ahead and taxed the people in the benefit area for the $84 a
year and then at a later date the other areas came in were agreed upon it and
you say it takes phase 1 and 2 in order to actually allow the other phases to
work, well then I don't know who can give me the answer. I don't believe you
could, I believe it would be the City Commissioners. What tax relief would the
people in the benefit area of phase 1 and 2 get allowing the other phases to
come in on what they have already paid for?
1
LJ
Mr. Bengtson - You have already told me you don't like my answers but
I think I can answer your question. if the benefit district for phases 1 and 2
were organized and a petition was filed to install phases 1 and 2, 1 can't
remember which of the letters whether it was I or J or whatever it was, but in
the event a certain portion is assigned to the benefit districts and the city -
at -large can pay a portion of it, in one of those methods of financing I think
the method was to charge the main laterals to the city -at -large in as much as
they would benefit more than the property within the benefit district of A and B
because it may also be of benefit to C and D and I think the feeling was that
the city -at -large should pick up the cost of these main laterals and the people
within the benefit districts should pick up only the cost of the drainage works
within their own area and those outside would he a city -at -large expense, and
in this way everybody would be sharing in the cost.
Mr. Reinbold - Maybe 1 didn't understand it then because this $84 does
that include the city picking up part of the tab?
Mr. Bengtson - I don't believe that was the one. That $84 figure that
is being tossed around, I don't think that is the correct figure, because I
believe that is the one where people in a large area of the county was considered
as part of the benefit district and certainly we can't include them in the
benefit district. We have to stay within our own city limits ...
Mr. Reinbold - whatever it is
Commissioner Duckers - I guess what he is saying is if the County
weren't included it would be more than $84.
Mr. Bengtson - I guess that would be $84 and $28, ... everyone within
the corporate limits would be paying $28 a year those in the benefit district
would be paying $84.
Mr. Reinbold - Well I know, but that $84 would that include the
city paying for the laterals and main portion that you were talking about.
Commissioner Graves - the major outlets would be paid by the city -
at -large and the benefit districts paid by the ... that is $14 for 10 years,
$60 dollars for benefit district.
Mr. Bengtson - Number I would be $14.00 for the city -at -large and $48
for lots in the benefit district.
Mr. Reinbold - I see. I have got one more thing here and then I'll be
... It might be a little old fashioned but I might throw this out, instead of
this ridiculous figure that we have here, would there be any possibility of
organizing a volunteer type program if it is practical and allowing a partial
tax relief for property owners that will volunteer. This way you could get a
possibility of getting help throughout the city if they can see that they might
get a percentage, not a total tax relief, but a percentage tax relief of their
their property for volunteering a minimum number of hours. Thank you.
i
Mr. Dale Brooks - I was wondering, I don't know who to put the question!
to, but someone in the city government. What I am wondering is what kind of
relief or emergency relief can we get to stop traffic and do things if this rain
happens tomorrow while we are still wondering what we are going to do by 1980?
I made my first call at 7:30 that night of the big rain, was told that every
available vehicle was tarring material to the city. I sat on my front porch
between bailing out my basement and watched 3 city pickup trucks go by and wash
water up into my garage plus 3 police cars plus a multitude of curious citizens
and we couldn't even get a barricade set up. What I would like to ask the City
Attorney is there a possibility of getting some kind of heavy chain that we can
lock across those streets so they can't move them? I am telling you, you don't
know what a car going by let alone 45 cars going by causes a real tidal wave.
You said tidal waves aren't part of this. If you are living in that flood
district, it is part of it, and we can not stop the curious from coming out and
going up and down those streets and we have got to have some kind of a means of
doing it. Also the day after the rain stopped when the water was down we were
offered all kinds of sand and sand bags to help us with the problem we didn't
have. Now I would like someone to speak to that please.
Mr. Olson - I will address the subject of the barricades and the
assignment of officers to the area as we attempt to barricade. I have made that
decision today that we will call back every off duty police officer every reserve
and every Junior cadet and we will man these intersections as much as possible
with as many barricades as we have. I know it wasn't done prior to last ... I
have told we will do it next time if there is a next time, hope there isn't, but
if there is, I will keep my word the next time.
Unidentified person - It won't do any good to put up barricades,
people just get out and move them and away they go.
Mr. Olson - That is why we intend to assign a commissioned officer to
the locations, the next time.
Unidentified man - ... 4th Street with their 4 wheel drive 50 miles
an hour. Water all over. People are out there begging for it. They don't care
Mr. Olson - The next case we will call back every uniformed officer
in Salina, reserve officers and cadets and people and do the best we can with
the people ...
Unidentified man - How many of those do you have to call back? 10,
12, 15 of them?
Mr. Olson - Well, I would say 75 to 80.
Unidentified woman - Did you put a barricade last week on Neal Street
when the water was up? Was there a barricade up ...
Mr. Olson - I am not aware that there was.
Unidentified woman - There were cars going through there.
Unidentified man - Yes there were.
Mr. Olson - Well, did - was there a call in? I am not aware the water
was over Neal, frankly. I was out of town and was not aware until the weekend.
Unidentified woman - The water was over 4th too ...
Unidentified man - It don't do any good to call.
Don Darling, 1036 Scott - We all have a problem. We all agree to it.
I think the thing that we need to do is get some action. We are here tonight
for action. The City has spent the money for an engineering study. Whether it
is the best or not I am not an engineer, I don't know, but I think the thing
that we really need to do as citizens in South Salina is get together get behind
the city and let's get this phase 1 and 2 started. I think personally the•city
it ought to be a city wide project, just like East Crawford was. It was fought
to a standstill and we are all paying for East Crawford. That is all right I
think it was a city wide deal, but so is phase 1 and phase 2. Let's get behind
the City Commissioners and the City Commissioners are not paying me to be up
here tonight. I am not getting paid. I have got a problem. When I moved in
Bonnie Ridge, the heaviest rains we had in the '60's never got near my house. A
year ago I fought water out of my basement because Scott Street was extended on
to the west. It had to come around to the east and there is no place for it to
go, but we consider and argue about what can be done, we have got a 9 million
dollar price tag on this project. Do we need a vote from the city wide, or what
do we need to do to get something started. That is what we need to do. Let's
get off.. let's get started. (Applause) That is what we need to do the work.
What do we need to do Jerry to get this thing started?
Commissioner Simpson - Well, as far as the funding part of it for my
own personal benefit as a Commissioner I would like to see how the people feel
about which phase or which type of funding might be the most reasonable to
assume that we could do, whether it would be an entire city at large bond issue,
a combination city -at -large on the laterals and a benefit district or another
alternative. You had what 3 Ralph?
Unidentified man - Jerry, can I ask a question? What was meant on the
presentation on the firstone when the state flood control, whatever it vias and
the statement was made that there was a possibility of netting 100% funding on
it. But the.time element wasn't going to allow us to even he eligible for any
j of it. What was meant by that statement?
Mr. Ricklefs - That is the small watershed program, which is available
to the soil conservation service. These funds are available but they are generally
made to much smaller communities, much more rural communities than Salina, and
as near as we can.estimate these funds would not become readily available to us
for a minimum of 25 years. What we said ... for a longer period of time that we
deem it prudent to take action.
Mr. Darling - We need to start paddling our own canoe. Let's forget
about the big government. We have got the problem here in Salina, let's get in
gear. If we need petitions, let the city say so, and let's get petitions started.;
For liquor in the restaurants how long did it take to cet them. Not very long.
We need petitions, let's get them out and get this phase 1 and 2 started. That
is my way. Let's do something.
Mr. Ricklefs - Do you want me to pursue those recommended fundings .
Ij
j Commissioner Simpson - I would like to know, Larry in the benefit
�I district in Phase 1 and 2, does that have to be initiated by citizen petition?
Mr. Bengtson - It can be initiated either one of two ways. If 50% of
jj the people, the resident owners and 50% of the people liable for assessments
within the area petition the city to do it, you can go ahead and proceed to do
I the work. On the other hand you as a City Commission can adopt a resolution to
j proceeed to implement phases land 2. If you would adopt such a resolution you
would then hold a public hearing and at this public hearing people could protest
j the division of cost or whatever you might set forth the estimated cost, and
after that public hearing you could order the improvements in and the improvements!
would be then constructed unless a protest petition was filed by 50% of the I
resident owners and 50% of the property liable for assessment within the benefit
district. If people in the benefit district petition it out you couldn't do it,
i but unless they petitioned it out you could do it.
j+
Mayor Weisgerber - What about the area in the county, Larry.
Mr. Bengtson - We have absolutely no jurisdiction to assess land
outside the corporate limits, and it is my understanding that phases 1 and 2 are
all within the corporate limits. Now we do have the power of eminent domain that
we can condemn property outside the corporate limits of the city and within five
miles of the city for purposes of acquiring right-of-way for storm drainage, so
even though we can't assess people outside the city limits we can acquire right-
of-way.
Mayor Weisgerber - I thought a part of phase 1 and 2 lay outside the
city. Is it entirely within? Are phases 1 and 2 entirely within the city?
Mr. Bowersox - on Phases 1 and 2 benefit area... most of that is
within the city...
Unidentified man - .. (unintelligible.)
Mr. Bowersox - Okay the actual system itself actual ditches and storm
sewers approximately I think it is 60% of that 9 million dollars 60% of that
lies within I believe within the, yes 60% of that 9 million ... 400 lies within
the county district. That is just the system, that isnot speaking of the
benefit area just the actual drainage systems.
Mayor Weisgerber - so as far as the taxable area is concerned it would
be all within the city.
Mr. Bowersox - not all of it is within the city limits, no about 60 or
70 percent.
Mr. Richlefs - We figured the benefit district, we took the area
inside the city limits plus those areas which were anticipated to be annexed
j� within I to 3 year period, in other words we were anticipating a time lag in
? there these areas the city planning staff had given us for annexation are
included within the benefit district also.
Mayor Weisgerber - What I am thinking of is in the legal technicalities
if a group of people wanted to get a petition to petition the city to do this,
can they get this petition signed both by people within the city and those
within the benefit district that are currently outside the city limits if they
agree to this on a voluntary basis? Or does this require also County as well as
City official action to permit them to do this?
Mr. Bengtson - I would assume if someone outside the corporate limits
of the city consented to have his property levied with special assessments we
could do it, but we certainly couldn't do it without his consent. It is kind of
hard for me to envision somebody with 160 acres of ground wanting to pay this
type of assessments on a voluntary basis.
Mayor Weisgerber - The only thing might be though if it were land that
was adjacent to the city the land that we are currently now refusing to take in
and plat for lots, they might find it to their advantage to go along with this
in order to feel assured that the land could have residential buildings on it at
a future date.
Mr. Bengtson - Well I would think then that they should petition for
annexation and they would be within the city limits and certainly at that point
we would be able to assess them, and include them in the benefit district.
Mayor Weisgerber - Perhaps for comparison, thinking of perhaps as some
of you may be, of the city -at -large the Bicentennial building which the bond
issue was voted in 1976 under the enthusiasm that the city felt then with all of
our bicentennial celebrations, six and a half million dollars and caused about a
5% mill levy. What you would be talking about is an 11 mill levy for the city,
would be almost double the mill levy that was put on for the city bicentennial,
it would increase the city tax levy itself by almost 1/3• It makes it a tough
proposition to think about an overall city bond issue. On the other hand, I
think the City Commission, if they felt that within the benefit district, and
some of you might want to study these maps, take a little time and see what
areas are included in the benefit district. I think we would like to know what
some of you really think. Would it stand up or wouldn't it?
Unidentified person - We would like to leave it up to you, right now
at this stage of the game ...
Mayor Weisgerber - Well the situation in this thing, you see it is up
to the people that live in this benefit district in the long run. We can't make
the decision without this approval. Can we get it approved, or can't we? We
are in the position of wondering can we get it or can't we get it?
Mr. Bengtson - Mr. Mayor, I think what they are saying is let the city
adopt a resolution to put this project in and then if they don't want it, it is
up to them to petition it out.
(Applause)
Mr. Bengtson - and if they don't petition it out, we can put it in.
Mayor Weisgerber - I think though, still we have heard from the people
most directly effected. You can't help but wonder a little over this entire
area what the general sentiment of the people is, and I don't know that we
really have a feal for this.
Unidentified man - why don't you try it? They can petition it out if
they don't want it. We are not polititions so you don't have to worry about
votes. Try it.
Unidentified woman - Try to sell a house in Bonnie Ridge.
Unidentified man - Yeah,
Mayor Weisgerber - Well, it is something we will have to talk about
and see. ...
Mr. Reinbold - You took on the responsibility when you annexed Bonnie
Ridge, now is your change to protect it.
1
1
Mrs. Miller - We own the ground where the Knox Sand Pit is. That was
a lake the other day. What are we going to have to contend with that all the
time or what is going to be happening?
Mr. Bengtson - Well, in that regards the city is going to use that for
a ponding area they would have to acquire those rights from you either by
negotiations or by condemnation, and you would be compensated for it because we
can't flood your property and damage your property without compensation and this
would be one of the costs of the project.
Mrs. Miller - Well when Bonnie Ridge was flooded last fall, our whole
farm only just a little tiny bit of it was under water for days.
Mr. Bengtson - Well of course this was from the natural flow, and this
we can't, but if we dig ditches or canals that divert the water out toward you
or on you, of course then this is ...
Mrs. Miller - Well that is being done.
Mayor Weisgerber - We have been here about a couple of hours, are
there any more questions covering territory perhaps which has not been covered
before.
Lloyd Muilenburg - I live on (816) Mike Drive. There is going to be,
according to the plans there should be in phase 1 a ditch run along the Schilling
Road, running east from the railroad tracks to prevent the -Field water from the
next two sections south from flowing north into Bonnie Ridge, and should not the
County be expected to foot part of the bill for putting that ditch in there to
prevent their water from flowing into the city?
Mayor Weisgerber - Well whatever is done with this it is going to
require the cooperation of both the City Commission and the County Commission.
The land overlaps so the benefit district overlaps, so it will have to be a
cooperative effort.
Mr. Bowersox - I might mention that on the wall over behind the screen
the slides that were presented here tonight we have some pictures of some maps
which you might view which might show the benefit areas and ...
Mayor Weisgerber - It is a little difficult sometimes to see hands
across these bright lights, but I believe the lady back up there has a question.
Unidentified woman - How many years is it going to take to get all the
j phases taken care of?
Mr. Bowersox - If we started tonight or tomorrow obtaining the appropriate
permits, make application for permits, design time, advertise for bids . bids
it will take for phase 1 and 2 if they were in one project it would take anywhere
from 4 to 6 years.
Unidentified woman - We live on 4th and the flood started there before
there was a Bonnie Ridge, why can't we be taken care of first?
Mayor Weisgerber - Do you still have a question to answer? The lady
standing up there?
j Unidentified woman - I want to know . (unintelligible)
j Commissioner Simpson - Yeah, Maurice, what are those possibilities of
expanding phase 1 and 2 going on to Fourth Street?
Mr. Bengtson - I think the Fourth Street project is what they call
Phase 3 and there is nothing in the world wrong with you as the City Commission
directing that phase 3 be installed at the same time. And if people don't want
it they can petition it out, or if they want it they can put it in ... go ahead
with phase 3 if people on Fourth Street want it.
Commissioner Simpson - All right can that be three separate benefit
districts so that if the Fourth Street if the majority did not want to do that
they could petition it out and still not impair the possibilities of 1 and 2.
Commissioner Geis - But on the other hand if Fourth Street went with
it and one and two did not then it would not function.
Commissioner Simpson - It wouldn't be practical point. Larry I had a
couple of questions. #1, 1 am disturbed to hear that Scott Street that was put
in within the last year is causing a problem, now is it causing a problem because
it is not properly designed, we are not using proper design criteria as outlined
in the Wilson and Company study, and if so it would seem like that ought to be
corrected immediately.
Unidentified man - There is no way for the water to get under the
road. They built the road up there and it blocked off the channel.
Commissioner Simpson - Well, are we not using proper design criteria
for roads and primary and secondary drainage?
Unidentified man - They raised up the street 3 to 5 feet when they put
it in there, hauled the dirt in from the old Knox Sand Pit, raised it up. The
water always runs between there, between Melanie Lane, the railroad tracks north
into Dry Creek. They they built that and it can't go north any more, it has got
to come around to the east.
Commissioner Simpson - Well, it is a part of the recommendation of the
report and I would be very happy to sponsor such a recommendation be enacted,
but it would seem proper design criteria should be implemented immediately with
or without the governing body saying you should do it. Okay, it is obvious that
continued building in the effected areas will compound the problem, is that
correct from an engineering standpoint? Before something is done is it possible
to, from a legal standpoint, to declare a moritorium on building permits in the
effected area until the project is approved and construction is started on the
flood control as outlined in phases 1 and 2?
Mr. Bengtson - Not under the present ordinances.
Commissioner Simpson - Is that by city ordinance?
Mr. Bengtson - Well, no person within the city, if he owns a tract of
property and is properly zoned, and he applies for a building permit, and complieE
with the zoning regulations we certainly we have nothing now that allows us to
deny a building permit if we did he would file a mandamus action against the
city to develop ... under present ordinances.
Commissioner Simpson - Can the governing body then enforce more stringen
drainage criteria on existing subdivisions and plats?
Mr. Bengtson - You would have to do it within the framework of approvinc
the plat and approving the drainage system for the subdivision. I think those
that have been approved right now, I think you are pretty well stuck with them.
Commissioner Simpson - We have no further controls as far as applying
more stringent criteria on those at this point in time? Well, maybe others want
to have something to say on this, but I think it is at least, from my standpoint,
very clear what you would like to have your City Commission do, and it is impossibl
to get it on the agenda for this coming Monday and we will not meet on the 9th,
but I would place it on the agenda for the meeting of October 16th, a resolution
defining phase 1, 2, and 3 benefit districts and at least get the ball rolling
as you have indicated and we will take it from there, then and see what happens.
This is the reason we wanted to have the meeting this evening. We had had the
report and really nothing had happened since that time. I think it was very
beneficial to have your input this evening and upon approval of the fellow
Commissioners we will place that on the agenda for the 16th for further considerat
Mr. Reinbold - Thank you. ... There is one thing, can a petition be
worked up to stop any future building?
not be.
Mr. Bengtson - As I indicated under our present ordinances there could
Unidentified man - Better change the ordinances then.
ie
Ion.
,1W2t)
Mr. Bengtson - I am not real sure because I think if you do, you are
taking away property rights of a person ...
i
Unidentified man They are sure taking away our property rights ...
Mr. Bengtson - This is true, but the person who built on your lots, he
had the same problems and he didn't comply. -
Unidentified man - (unintelligible) ...
Mr. Bengtson - Well, we know there is a problem and off hand I am not
going to say we can't, but off the top of my head opinion, I really question it.
Unidentified man - ... get an emergency declared there ...
Mr. Bengtson - Like I say, I question that. I think we certainly can
on any new subdivision that comes in we certainly can require them as to drainage
and probably, I would feel that we probably ought to adopt some uniform heights
as to how high you can build up your lots, because if you build yours up and the
next guy comes and builds a little higher, eventually it just compounds and the
guy who built first doesn't have a chance, but I think we probably should adopt
I some uniform elevations for buildings and things such as this but we would
certainly have to do it when we approve the subdivisions and plats.
s
Mr. Reinbold - Could they ... make a stronger recommendations to
these builders and developers that are now in process. Could they maize a
recommendation to them to go back and look at the future drainage of the areas
they are developing?
Commissioner Graves - Resubmit their plats.
I� Mr. Bengtson - I think Planning is now, I think that Planning requires
( and is making everybody aware, I think the Engineering Department is trying to
make everyone aware. I think the builders are more aware of what is happening.
! Mr. Reinbold - ... I mean those under construction now.
Mr. Bengtson - Well again, we have issued a building permit and it
would certainly be a voluntary,thing on the part of the builder ...
i
Mayor Weisgerber - A question for Wilson and Company over there, on
�Ithese three phases, the benefit districts on 1 and 2 do not coincide completely
,do they? The benefit districts, the boundaries of the benefit districts?
I Mr. Bowersox - Do they coincide for phases 1 and 2? Yes.
I�Mayor Weisgerber - But not for Phase 3?
Mr. Bowersox - No.
Mayor Weisgerber - Is there any overlapping between 1 and 2 and 3?
Mr. Bowersox - The benefit districts and the recommendations are up
there. The benefit district for phase 3 is not, but it essentially consists of
the drainage area ... as far as the map, it is not on the maps on the back of
the wall. Just phases 1 and 2 and ... that is all we recommended at this time.
Mayor Weisgerber - I am aware of that.
Mr. Bowersox - There is overlapping between phase 1 and
phase 2, but
there is
no overlapping into phase 3 in the sewer portions. There
are some
projects
in phase 3, small laterals that are still in the benefit
areas of
3
phases 1
and 2, but according to the slough system, it is not in
the same benefit.';
Mayor Weisgerber - On the maps you have on the wall, so
go and look at those, do you show the benefit districts,
i
people could
are they
posted up
there on
the wall?
Mr. Bowersox - The benefit districts and the recommendations are up
there. The benefit district for phase 3 is not, but it essentially consists of
the drainage area ... as far as the map, it is not on the maps on the back of
the wall. Just phases 1 and 2 and ... that is all we recommended at this time.
Mayor Weisgerber - I am aware of that.
`,:224
Mr. Bengtson - Mr. Mayor, I would be very hesitant for people to look
at the benefit districts as now posted because it is quite possible, I think we
did hear that some of this was outside the city limits and this is not going to
be probably the final boundaries of the benefit district, and somebody might
look on it and say well I am not in it and forget about it, and later on they
will. Now what will happen if after you adopt a resolution to proceed with this
project 1, 2, and 3, you will instruct the City Engineer, through Wilson and
Company, to prepare a feasibility report and in this feasibility report there
will be the exact benefit districts, the estimated costs, the estimated division
of costs and you will hold a public hearing based on that feasibility report and
at that time you will be able to decrease the benefit district, but you will
not be able to increase it, so I would be reluctant for somebody to look at this
map and say I am not in it, or I am in it because I think we are going to have
to wait and see where the exact lines are and at that point they will be publicis
so people will know whether they are in or out.
Robert Caldwell - I don't want to prolong the meeting, but I do have a
question. The City Attorney proposed a resolution be made before the City
Commission in the near future, and that the people in the south district where
the flooding had some problems last year would be able to petition it out. My
question is, what about the rest of the people in the City? Would they have a
voice in this petition because they may end up getting extended benefit for the
whole city. I understand some of the laterals ... I happen to live in the area
where all the water up in the south of town ends up in front of my house also and
the streets adjacent to me. At the CD funding meeting last week or two weeks
ago people in the north end of Salina were complaining about the water in their
streets, so we are talking about your end of town, so we have got to consider
the whole ... now my only question is tonight if the resolution is passed by the
City Commission regardless of when it is, he said the benefit district will be
your district here in the south end of Salina can petition it out. Now my
question is what other part of the city do those people have a voice in this
petition, because they have their problems also.
Mr. Bengtson - In this regards there is nothing that says the people
in another area of town cannot petition the City to form a benefit district for
and drainage in a specific area. So they have that right also ... and provide
for drainage in north Salina or where ever it might be. Now in regards to the
procedure I have outlined to you, whether the citizens would or would not have a
right to protest probably would be up to the City Commission. The law says
that only the people within the benefit district have a right to petition it out
and by this I mean that it would require 50% of the resident owners and 50% of
the owners of property liable to assessment. They can petition it out. Now
suppose if the City Commission wants to give the city -at -large a chance to have
a say whether this project should be completed or not, there is a provision in
Chapter 12-6a which this project will be constructed, which provides that the
City Commission may submit to the city -at -large whether or not they desire to
issue bonds to pay the share which the city is obligated to pay under the resoluti,
Now this is a discretionary matter, if you want to, you can submit it to a vote
and petition ... or you don't have to submit it to a vote under 12-6a. Now if
you were going to finance this totally by general obligation bonds to be paid by
the city -at -large, then of course the only way you have to proceed would be by
election.
John Reh, 2267 Leland Way - I believe that I bought the first flood
insurance policy in Salina, at least I bought it on the first day it became
available. My premium currently is $31 a year and I get $11,000 coverage on my
house and contents. The gentleman earlier said that we should take action
ourselves to solve the problem and I think that is the most economic way to
solve the problem that I have. It may not be for all of you. Compare that to
the cost as described here for my lot would be about $168 a year and if you exclud
the area outside of the city I believe that will raise around 40% and I think
that is about well that would be roughly 7 times what I am paying for flood
insurance. I hope I don't have the $11,000 loss. Thank you.
Unidentified man - That is not paying for the anxiety myself and family
suffer every time it rains or every time we see a cloud come in.
n.
Mr. Reh - You are right. I happened to be out of town the night it
happened last time and my wife suffered quite a bit of anxiety, but I did have
the peace of mind as far away as I was knowing I had flood insurance.
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is done.
Unidentified man - ... 30 years ... once you get this in and then it
Unidentified man - What is the period of assessment?
Unidentified person - 10 years.
Unidentified man - 340 bucks ...
Mr. Reh - I think mine will probably exceed $200 a year by the time we
get it narrowed down to the proper benefit district and that is $2,000.
Unidentified man - That isn't going to help me though. I want to sell
my house. I can't sell it and I can't sell it with flood insurance either.
Mr. Reh - And I believe I said that for me I think that is the most
economic solution. It may not be for all of you. Have you got flood insurance?
Unidentified man - I don't have flood insurance.
Mr. Reh - It is available to you today.
Unidentified man - That is not the problem. It didn't even get close
to my house ... but the thing of it is, I can't sell my house. The people
across the street had it on the market four months and they can't sell their
house.
Mr. Reh - I won't argue that.
Unidentified man - ... flood insurance you buy they still can't sell
that house.
Mr. Reh - I wouldn't argue that point and I don't think we are up here
to debate. I did strike a nerve evidently.
Elliott Richard - I live on South Ohio and I have got a question for
the engineer. It is my understanding there is going to be or in one of the
phases, a flood canal built on the south edge of Bonnie Ridge.
Mr. Bowersox - There is a drainage ditch on the south side of Bonnie
Ridge.
Mr. Richard - Okay, I am no engineer, but I am curious how ... cubic
feet per minute is it going to flow, or I would like to know in approximate
figures what size of a ditch is proposed? In diameter or feet across, or how
deep or whatever.
Mr. Bowersox - The drainage ditch south of Schilling Rcad is approximate,ly
channel 40 foot wide at the bottom ... has an approximate right-of-way of
130 feet.
Mr. Richard - Okay, then this will go from where in the west? How far
west is it going to go?
Mr. Bowersox - ... as far west as the UPRR and runs east across Ohio
Street about 1/4 or 1/2 mile east of Ohio Street and turns north and cuts under
Schilling Road, runs north to this area at Knox Road and eventually back to the
old river channel ...
Mr. Richard - Okay, last year the county engineers were out there and
they said in the county you can't divert water off from one person onto another.
Is that correct? Okay, maybe I am wrong but in my estimation, building a street
or building a road higher than the surrounding property is diverting water.
Mr. Bowersox - First of all this ditch ...
Mr. Richard - ..I am not talking about the ditch, I am going back to
last summer when we had water, okay? I didn't get water in my basement. I was
very fortunate. If we had had another 3 inches of water, I would have had, but
I also walked down along Ohio Street and this is my point that I want to make.
walked down along Ohio Street #1 just a little bit of common sense says there
is not enough culverts running east and west through Ohio Street to let some of
the water out. What few are in there are plugged up there is no way in the
world water could have got through them, okay, besides that the east ditch, I am
not saying run it over on the farmer on the east side of Ohio, the point that I
want to bring out is the fact that Ohio is forming a dam there south of Bonnie
Ridge. My yard, the ditch that runs right along Ohio was clear full of water
there was not running whatsoever in the east ditch along Ohio Street. There was
no water running in it absolutely at all.
Unidentified man - There was on the west ditch.
Mr. Richard - Yeah, the west ditch was plum full about 8 inches from
the top of the road if there maybe the ditch isn't even necessary, but or maybe
not as big a ditch is necessary if the County would get off their duffs and put
some culverts in there and let some of that water get over to the east side of
the road.
Mr. Bowersox - ... I think what you are saying is ... east side of the
road ... diverting water ... over all it all ends up in the same place, the
Smoky Hill River.
Mr. Richard - Right. I know that. I understand that.
Mr. Bowersox - All we did ... (unintelligible)
Mr. Richard - I can follow, I understand that. I can follow that, but
what I am saying at the present time in the mean time in case if we do get
another heavy rain, if there just a few culverts stuck in Ohio I could almost
guarantee that it is going to lower that water level and not as many people are
going to get as much water as they did last year.
Mr. Bowersox - You still have to have a natural outlet ...
Mr. Richard - I agree, but the thing about it is it gets the pressure
out of Bonnie Ridge and gets it on the other side of Ohio, it is going to relieve,
it is not going to get it all, there is no way from that rain last year, I don't
know how many people have even seen a nine inch rain, but my point is if there
were some culverts in there, the County said they couldn't do it but we could do
it in the city, but it couldn't be done in the county, but my question is why
can it be done in the city, but not in the county because that is where the
water came from?
Unidentified man - In phase 1 is that a deeper ditch in phase 1 that
you were talking about, over east than phase 2?
Mr. Bowersox - The one on Schilling Road?
Unidentified man - Yes.
Mr. Bowersox - In Phase 1 it is on the west side of the UPRR, what
size is the ditch, is that what you are asking? It is a lot smaller about 1/2
the size of ... maybe a 60 foot or 80 foot right-of-way.
Unidentified person - Will that water be diverted ... (unintelligible)
run into low areas of north Salina and create another problem?
! Mr. Bowersox - Okay, the Dry Creek channel, Schilling Road all the way
down to Interstate 35 .•• (unintelligible)
Mayor Weisgerber - Alright, anything else, or are we ready to call it
a night. Thank you all for coming, we will all be down front for a little bit
if you care to ask. The meeting adjourned at 9:43 P.M.
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D. L. Harrison, City Clerk