01-16-1978 Minutes1
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City of Salina, Kansas
Regular Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
January 16, 1978
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the Commissione
Room, Ciiy-County Building, on Monday, January 16, 1978, at four o'clock p.m.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the opening ceremony.
There were present:
Mayor Keith G. Duckers, Chairman Presiding
Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Commissioner Karen M. Graves
Commissioner Gerald F. Simpson
Commissioner Jack Wesigerber
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Norris D. Olson, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
The Minutes of the Regular Meeting of January 9, 1978 were approved
las printed.
STAFF AGENDA
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
changing the name of Roach Street in Riverdale Addition to the City of Salina,
Saline County, Kansas." (to Westbend Avenue). A motion was made by Commissioner
Simpson, seconded by Commissioner Weisgerber to adopt the ordinance as read and
the following vote was had: Ayes: Simpson, Weisgerber, Geis, Graves, Duckers
(5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the ordinance and it is numbered
8615. The ordinance was introduced for first reading January 9, 1978.
THE CITY ENGINEER reported on Petition Number 3674 which was filed by
Jimmie Dale Andrew for the vacation of the South 5' of a 20' utility easement on
Lot 12, Block 6, Georgetown Addition, that "Mr. Andrew's has a house foundation
that extends two feet into this easement with a decorative wall extending an
additional three feet into the eastement. Two feet of the house plus the wall
its on the five feet of easement that the petitioner is asking to be vacated.
j "The City has constructed a sanitary sewer line seven feet from the
(south line of the easement. If we vacated the five feet as requested, it would
leave only two feet of easement on the south side of the sewer which I do not
consider adequate for construction or repair.
I "The most we could recommend would be to vacate the south two feet of
;this easement which would clear his house and still leave the city a five foot
!easement on the south side of the sewer, which we could live with." A motion
=was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Graves to accept the
;recommendation of the City Engineer and to introduce an ordinance for first
,reading to vacate the south 2 feet of the utility easement. Ayes: (5). Nays:
1(0). Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed:
Number:
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A RESOLUTION was introduced and passed entitled: "A RESOLUTION authorizii
,the temporary investment of approximately $1,300,000.00 of idle funds of the
;City of Salina, Kansas." A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded
by Commissioner Geis to adopt the Resolution as read and the following vote was
jhad: Ayes: Weisgerber, Geis, Graves, Duckers (4). Nays: (0). Commissioner
jSimpson abstained. The Mayor approved the Resolution and it is numbered 3351.
PUBLIC AGENDA
PETITION NUMBER 3675 was filed by Roy Presley for paving, curb and
igutter, storm sewer, sanitary sewer and water service on Argonne Drive from
'Douglas Drive; on Deborah Drive from Douglas Drive to Bradley, and on Bradley
,Avenue. A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded by Commissioner
!Weisgerber to refer the petition to the City Engineer for a report. Ayes: (5).
;Nays: (0). Motion carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3676 was filed by Dr. Norman Harris for curb, gutter,
streets, water and sewers for all that unpaved area of Hillside Drive and Fairdale�
;Road located in Country Club Heights Addition Number 5.
Commissioner Graves asked about the status of the rezoning request
and drainage problems in the area.
The City Engineer reported that the Engineering Department is still
;studying the drainage, and that this petition should be referred to him to
,check its sufficiency and if the commission wishes to delay the actual construction
of the improvements, it may do so by holding up on the adoption of a resolution
(determining the advisability of the improvements until the drainage problem is
'adequately studied and appropriate solutions undertaken.
A motion was made by Commissioner Weisgerber, seconded by Commissioner
Simpson to refer the petition to the City Engineer for a report, and that Dr.
Harris be made aware that his rezoning request has not been approved, that it is
being held until the drainage questions of the area are answered. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
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PETITION NUMBER 3677 was filed by Pat Bolen for concrete curb and
;gutter, asphalt paving, storm drainage, sewer and water improvements for Westchest'r
.Avenue between Ohio and Roach Streets. (Westbend Avenue). A motion was made by
;Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Graves to refer the petition to the
;City Engineer for a report. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
TREE TRIMMING AND TREATING License applications were filed by:
I. Cecil Heart, d/b/a Hearts Tree Service, 1001 West Crawford -
Trimming.
2. Dennis Brake, 911 North 13th Street - Trimming.
3. Darrell J. Prater, d/b/a D. J. Prater Tree Service, R. R. 3,
Salina - Trimming and Treating.
4. Donald D. Deatherage, d/b/a Salina Tree Service, 616 West Crawford
!Trimming and Treating.
5. Kenneth E. Baker, d/b/a Ken Baker Landscaping, R. R. 5, Salina -
Trimming.
The City Clerk reported the applicants have paid the required fee, and
have been approved by the Zoning Officer and have the required bond and public ,
liability insurance on file. A motion was made by Commissioner Simpson, seconded
by Commissioner Weisgerber to approve the license applications and authorize the
City Clerk to issue the licenses. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE License application was filed by Mary Lynne
(Marble, d/b/a 19th Hole, Municipal Golf Course on East Crawford. (Renewal) The ;{
City Clerk reported the applicatant has paid the required fee and the application 'f
jhas been approved by the Health Department, Zoning Officer and the Police Department.
A motion was made by Commissioner Graves, seconded by Commissioner Simpson to
',approve the license application and authorize the City Clerk to issue the license..
',Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried. j
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COMMISSION AGENDA
''DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF THE CITY OF SALINA, KANSAS, FILING A CLASS
ACTION SUIT AGAINST THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT FOR HARASSMENT.'' (Sponsored by
Mayor Duckers).
Mayor Duckers - I had forwarded this to City Manager Olson to put on
the agenda today, prior to the Salina Area Chamber of Commerce meeting the other
night, and I had an occasion, following Governor Reagan's address, to announce
it publicly. I think perhaps I did that because I was afraid I might get cold
feet and withdraw it before today, but it is a matter that I am very serious
about. I think it somewhat compares with the old adage of how often do you beat
your wife? I think if, periodically, you ask a person that publicly and he
denies it, sooner or later people are going to begin to think, well, I wonder
how cagey he can be to get away with it all the time because he keeps denying
it. So I wanted to bring this to your attention today. I don't know how we
proceed, I have not discussed this with anyone. I have not even discussed it
with our City Attorney, Mr. Bengtson. I am sure probably at some point in time
today it would be in our best interest to go into an executive session because
it does involve possible litigation. I asked the City Manager to have certain
!resource people available today including the Chief of Police, Human Relations
!Director, City Attorney and others who he might want to speak to about this
matter. I happen to have been a long time close personal friend of the Chief of
Police of Salina, Kansas, John Woody, I know him to be a very honorable man. He
has assured me that he is trying in every way to comply with the intent of the
law; and I know that he is terribly upset about this accusation of his department
which, I think, is recognized far and wide as one of the best, if not the best,
department in the State of Kansas, and I do not feel that i•t is fair to him or
to his fine staff or to his officers to continually be harassed as they have
been over an issue that was brought to light 20 months ago by a man who no
longer lives even in Salina, Kansas. So with that opening statement I will see
what you folks have to say, if anything.
Commissioner Simpson - Well, Mr. Mayor, I am sure we all join in the
public indignation over the continued receipt of such letters; however, and we
probably ought to discuss this in executive session as regards to the possibility
of filing a law suit against the US government, or whoever. I do think, however,
in response to the letter which I have just received, that it would be well to
have a written statement from the staff as regards to each of the findings so
that we can be assured that each of these findings have been complied with,
however ridiculous they may seem to be. I don't know what the effect of an
administrative proceeding is from the Office of Revenue Sharing, but it might
cause unnecessary delays in funding that could be put to good use to accomodate
not only the Police Department, who gets part of the revenue sharing funds, but
the other departments and agencies of the city as well. To proceed further
think I would really like to discuss this with the fellow commissioners in
executive session as regards to the possibility of filing a law suit.
Mayor Duckers - Do any of the rest of you have any statements that you
would wish to make before we do adjourn, or any questions you would like to
address to any of the resource people that are here?
Commissioner Geis - I guess I have some comments, Keith, I would like
to make. I don't know how appropriate it is, but my old wrestling coach used to
say the best way to get out a prediciment is not to get into it, and it would
seem to me that while some of these federal agencies are indeed picking on us,
it was not without cause. And I really am in the dark as to what has gone on
the the past, I just received a copy of this letter moments before the meeting
started and didn't really know much more about your ideas other than what I read
in the newspaper, but I have been in contact with people who have felt that
Salina has not pursued a policy that would keep us free and clear of some of
these charges although we may now be much improved in that area. I don't know.
I would, I guess, basically just say that they must have had some reason for
bringing this thing on and certainly that makes an impression on me and I would
hope that we, as a city, would no longer continue such policies as to, and I am
assuming that we are not now doing so, but to the harassment idea I am up in the
air about that entirely. I have got to admit that the idea of suing the federal
government appeals to me personally just that as to whether or not it would have
any tangible results I don't know. Those are my comments.
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Mayor Duckers - I think, in response to that, Dan, I would simply
point out, I didn't in my opening remarks, but this stems from a charge made 20
months ago. I personally had an opportunity to investigate it when I was in
Washington on another matter. I learned from the man who received the complaint
that the only thing necessary was a piece of paper and a crayon, and you didn't
even need to sign it, that anyone could sign a complaint. Well, I don't agree
with that, but that is the law so we have to live by that. This complaint was
filed 20 months ago. At that time we were investigated by the State Attorney
General's Office, we were investigated by the Kansas State Civil Rights Commission
and we since have also been investigated and exonerated by the United States
Justice Department. It just seems a little bit ridiculous to me how many federal
;agencies can investigate you on one charge, and I agree, I hope that we have
:cleaned up our act and that we are in complete compliance, and I think that is
!what Chief Woody wants, and that is what all of us want as the commissioners of
;the City of Salina; but I feel a sense of harassment and I know he does too.
Commissioner Geis - ... I have a copy of the letter here, sent to Mr.
Briscoe by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration regarding his particular
case, and it, in it states that there is apparently - well let me see 'without
any clear allegations of discriminatory employment practices or any factual
information in support thereof. There is no jurisdictional basis upon which
this office can proceed with an investigation'. But it does go on in another
!paragraph to say, 'we have reviewed the Salina Police Department EEOP and found
it to be inadequate. As a consequence the department has been requested to
develop a new EEPO within 60 days; furthermore the draw down of any LEAA funds
;under the future grant award has been special conditioned pending the receipt
Viand approval of the revised EEOP and this office will therefore close its file
ladministratively but will continue monotoring the Salina Police department
development'. And those meetings.that I have attended at Beloit, the National
iRegional Planning Commission or the North Central Regional Planning Commission,
!they pointed out that we were being shut down on LEAA funds because of this
jparticular thing; although I was called by a person from that department last
;fall saying that we had been cleared of those and we would receive our funds
,from those things. But what I am saying, Keith, is apparently there was something
there that made those people give cause to our conditions here in Salina, and I
,certainly hope that they are improved.
Commissioner Graves - May I say something Mr. Mayor? I guess, as one
,of the minorities referred to in the report being female, we are actually a
majority, but we are continually referred to as a minority. I think my views
are well known and that I abhor any kind of barriers to any groups, women, �!
,blacks, Spanish speaking groups, anyone. The problem that we get into are these
quotas, and I get very upset about quotas, because while I don't want any barriersll
or any doors closed, when you enter the quota system you get into a numbers j;
;thing and you do get into a reverse discrimination kind of a thing where qualified;
people, who don't happen to fit into the quota, are being denied. I think it is
important to remember that our Police Department is charged with the responsibilit'
,of protecting lives and property of our citizens. They are not really an
,agency that is supposed to go out and make up for social injustices. The quota
thing really bothers me. The other thing that bothers me is some of her, some
of Mrs. Denning's, remedies. As a female, I wouldn't ever want any agency or
anybody to think that they had to lower their standards in order to hire me, and '1
I think I could speak for most females. And I think that blacks would feel the ii
same way. I do not like this idea that the standards have got to be lowered in
order to accomodate us. The women that I know that are planning to get into
some of these areas, not necessarily my generation, but the young ones, thank
;you very much but we don't need anyone to lower standards for us and I think
,most minorities feel the very same way. It is condescending and it is demeaning, II
and it is insulting, and that is the part that bothered me so much in her
remedy list is that, you know, this idea that we are going to lower standards. i
don't think that Chief Woody or Darrell Wilson should have to lower standards I
;for anybody. I think we can go in and compete for those jobs, as long as those
doors are open. And I have done quite a bit of checking and I am convinced the l
doors are open, and if they aren't then we have a Human Relations ordinance, we
ihave the Human Relations Commission and we have an affirmative action program,
:we have a vehicle to seek redress of the grievances, in my opinion. So I do
feel like we are being harassed. Even someone said you can only be tried once
:for a murder, but for heavens sake we are being tried the fourth time for somethin
!that is not exactly a murder. There aren't any dead bodies anywhere.
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Commissioner Weisgerber - What seems to me from a procedural point of
view is, this letter is being based apparently on a May 17th investigation.
That has been quite a long while ago, and I am wondering if there have been any
changes since then and now of which the secretary might not be aware. I just
got this letter too, and I also am not aware of how much information they got or
whether they payed any attention to what they got. Whether any obvious flaws
between what the requests that they make and between our actual practice. If
there is, what seems to me perhaps in order of doing that we would come back to
them and make any changes that have occurred in our own procedures since the
17th of May, there also point out to them any errors in their statements that
don't agree with what we actually are doing, and then see, and if we are going
to make any changes, list those, and after doing those three things is to see
what kind of a response we get to that. I, in this law suit bit, feel if a
person has at least some remote chance of being successful, or accomplishing
their end, then certainly I think we would go ahead and do it. There is no use
of taking an action that deliberately runs into a stone wall where you will
accomplish nothing. But it may be possible to, if a law suit, as such, would
not be successful, at least would bring necessary attention to this particular
problem that might be helpful. Probably we should explore the other avenue
first and then see where we go from there.
Commissioner Geis - I finally had a chance to go through this a little
bit and I've got to admit that the idea of not being able to check on a person's
background or arrest record as a potential candidate for the Police Department
is mind boggling. If it indeed would lead to, maybe, being in a position of
hiring a convicted felon to be a police officer. I can't believe ..
Commissioner Weisgerber - ... some things in there cannot be complied
with and that is for sure, but perhaps some things can. I don't know.
Mr. Olson - Mr. Mayor, I think the article in which I was quoted in
the paper still stands and that is that there are several problems in this area.
One is the lack of cooperation among the various federal agencies or bureaus.
Two is the inability of one federal agency to apparently trust the other or put
any stock in the findings of another agency. This has been going on for years
among the various federal agencies themselves. They cannot sit down and agree
among themselves on the administrative rules and regulations taken from the
same law that they are asking single purpose units of government to comply with.
Another problem is the local community's inability to obtain, from the federal
agency, any degree of cooperation or assistance whether it relates to the definitidn
of a term, whether it relates to validating tests, how you go about validating,
or the like. We gave the person from Treasury, who was here in May a copy of
our test and he was going to find out if that test had ever been validated by
anybody. It was a national test. To this day we have not received an answer
from him on that singular issue. As far as the letter that,was written by the
Justice Department to Mr. Briscoe that you alluded to, Mr. Geis, there is a
statement there that says 'Without any clear alligations of discriminitory
employment practices or any factual information in support thereof there is no
jurisdictional basis upon which this office can proceed with an investigation.'
Commissioner Geis - Yes, I read that.
Mr. Olson - They made a personal call on Mr. Briscoe and asked him for
;'certain specifics to give them some idea of what he was discussing. You will
Ilrecall that this was a point in time when Mr. Briscoe had a running battle with
11the Police Department, making very many accusations and charges through the
1media that would listen to him. That were totally, in our opinion, out of
!;line. Two things I would like to address now, one that you made Mr. Geis, where
'`you assume we are not continuing these practices. There has never been any
dotal, state or federal agency judge us as having any practices that are
�ldiscriminatory. We have certainly gleaned some information from these agencies.
11We have changed our application forms for example when we become aware of them.
Ii We no longer ask for example, marital status. We no longer ask for financial
':idata or information. We do still ask for credit check in certain instances, if
',that is, we consider a job related, reasonable request. And I think about a
;comment you made Mayor, something about cleaning up our act. We feel we have
!(never had a dirty act, and I think that we expect to answer these type of inquiries.
1iJust to the best that we can and that is all. And what we can administer. I
;;can assure you that the file drawers are full, this is a volumunous, time consuming
!!activity that we have undertaken on staff. Many man hours.
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Mayor Duckers - Person hours.
Mr. Olson - Person hours. It gets old. This letter from Mrs. Denning i!
is the response to the investigation that Mr. Williams conducted here in person
last May. Prior to this I believe, we do have a letter from Justice. That was
when you were back and saw Mr. Stein in Washington, Mayor, I think we had a
couple or three little points that he suggested that we change meter maid to
meter checker, policeman to police officer and we had done that; but we certainly
feel on staff that we can justify continuing many of the things you have addressed
from the bench there today. That we think are valid job requirements.
Commissioner Geis - Norris, this same letter where you re -read the
paragraph that I read ..
Mr. Olson - is that the one you, I am sorry, I didn't ..
Commissioner Geis - .. I understand that, then in the next paragraph
it does state that as this EEOP, Equal Employment Opportunity Plan, was reviewed
by them and says that the Salina Police Department's EEOP is inadequate.
Mr. Olson - We supplied additional information as a result of that
letter and on November 9, 1977 they advised that it is sufficient. The supplemen
materials that we provided as a result of our, not this letter, but a letter
sent to us I believe on exactly the same date, with a check off list.
Commissioner Geis - My intention ...
Mr. Olson - .. and we are in substantial, what they say is substantial
compliance, and you have to appreciate too, that these people in the bureaus
will say substantial, moderate, they will use an adjective because someone else
may come back later and question how come you wrote this and said they are in
total compliance. Some of those people are striking for an increase in salary
and a better job and these types of things too, so they are very, very careful.
We have had them refuse to put in writing something they told us on the telephone.
Not Justice or Treasury, but I am talking about various federal agencies. We do
have that letter and that phone call apparently the same time, November 9 ...
Commissioner Geis - .. Yeah, I don't remember when it was, I expressed
an interest in it when I was up there at one of the meetings and the man said he
would advise me as soon as he found out about it, and I think that he was going
to call, or may have called you immediately after he called me.
Commissioner Weisgerber - But in what you have just said, you have
mentioned several things that we are doing that are not the way they are listed
in this letter, your meter maid, your patrolman, are some of these things that
you just mentioned of being corrected. That is why I say I certainly wouldn't
steer away from a law suit, I wish it could be made against this lady personally,
if we get involved in it, but that would take an expert's opinion as to how best
to best to approach this. It seems to me what we need to do now is come back at
them for the way we are now, because you have already mentioned some things that
are not the way they are in this letter.
Commissioner Simpson - Well, if you can wade through the bureaucratees
that they are so proficient at putting out in these letters and their other
epistles from on high, 'she' says, 'Please indicate your intentions and efforts :!
to correct the violations cited and implement the actions enumerated above. You
know that she says 'While such job titles may not be discriminitory above factors
are not inherently discriminitory'. I am having a hard time finding the violation]
we are being accused of violating.
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Mayor Duckers - And I question their forcing us into discontinuing l
background checks because we don't feel it is in the best interest of the citizens)
of Salina, Kansas not to do background checks on police officers. !'
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Mr. W. E. Harris - Mr. Mayor, If I may, I don't think that they are
telling us to discontinue that, I think what that letter is saying is that we
have to document that that is a valid job requirement. And I don't think that
we should have any hard time proving correct. I don't think we should have any
problem doing that so far as police officers are concerned showing them why it
is necessary, absolutely necessary to know what type of an individual we are
considering strapping a pistol on. And I really don't interpret that letter as
telling us that we cannot do those things but we are going to have to document
to their satisfaction that they are valid job requirements. Now as long as I am
on my feet, I would like to enlighten Mr. Geis that what it took to satisfy LEAA
was not all that complicated. We did have a little trouble communicating and
understanding even what they were after, but when Mrs. Barsley came out here
from the Governor's Committee on Criminal Administration. She was a great help
to us and it boiled down to some statistical data, as an example how many
people in a breakdown on their race, and sex and so forth had applied for jobs
with the police department over the past year or so. How many terminations we
had had, disciplinary actions and promotions and these types of things, strictly
statistical type of information and that was all that was lacking in their
opinion so far as our affirmative action program is concerned. Our problem is
recruiting, getting people to apply for these jobs and of course then once they
do apply we have to go through a testing and screening process and some of them
drop out along the way and we recently, in fact back in October, advertised
throughout the State, that we had openings in both the police and fire departments.
It was very disappointing the limited response that we got to that.
Commissioner Geis - The response was limited, you mean, by applicants
in general or just minority applicants in particular.
Mr. Harris - In total, but in particular minorities and females.
Commissioner Geis - What is that they don't
Mr. Harris - Maybe they don't want to be a policeman, I don't know.
Commissioner Geis - Do other communities have similar problems in
hiring police officers?
Mr. Harris - I really don't know. Perhaps the Chief or Assistant
Chief can respond to that. I think that they do, but I am not all that certain
of it, but we ran ads in Topeka, Wichita, Hutchinson, Hays paper, Fort Riley.
I know that effort at advertising, I am not real sure of these figures but I
believe the personnel director got something like 27 applicants for the police
department and very few of those 4 or 5, ..
Mayor Duckers - And one of those was from our own fire department.
Mr. Harris - That is right.
Mayor Duckers - Chief Woody.
Chief John Woody - There is other cities having problems, and they
certainly are, and I might point out Salina is one of the leaders in the recruiting
women hiring practices and of minorities. The other thing that I certainly want
to point out, and I agree with Mr. Olson, I don't see any act we have to clean
up. I don't know how you get applicants, and to start with law enforcement
isn't a popular occupation right now. One of the very reasons is what is happening
here today. I have so many people tell me that is why I am not a cop, because
we don't protect life and property any more, we are always answering charges,
which I think is hokesome until the charges become baseless, and I certainly
appreciate the backing of the City Manager and this commission here this afternoon.
That is what is happening to us here. We are having baseless charges thrown at
us, and we are trying to defend our part of something we have never done, we
didn't need a civil rights act that came out in 1974 to tell us how to be fair
in employment practices. Now we are short officers in the police department
right now and we will hire anybody that is qualified. It amazes me to see this
hassel that we are begging people to be policemen, now there is a little bit of
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stipulations that we put in that, you can't kill your mother and father and then
want to be a cop so you can carry a gun legally. I have to be a little asinine
when I talk about this because some of the letters we get from our federal
people are ridiculous. They are assuming we are guilty and it is starting to
erode on the very officers themselves at the police department and I think it is
time, we better take some kind of a stand. They are either going to have to
prove our guilt, and I hope we don't have to, but if need be we can prove our
innocense. That is kind of changing the whole spectrum around, but if there is
some way to prove our innocense, we will even do that, so that is all I have to
say about it. If the right applicant shows up over there, no matter what his
nationality, color, creed, habits or anything, we want him, or her.
Carmen Chirveno - Mr. Mayor, I am director of Human Resources, and
came here primarily because I think I am guilty of one of the things the police.
department is guilty of, but I didn't know there was any guilt. I run a check
on everybody who applies at Memorial Hall through the police department, and
unless it is against the law and I am told not to, I feel it is very important
that who is over there with our children and who says that I should know some
kind of a background on them. As it has turned out, some of the people that
have come there, it was a good thing I ran a check. So I wonder why we are just
pointing out the police department? That is why I came here today, because
felt that it wasn't just the police department that was doing that. I do it,
actually run the check while the person is sitting before me. I call Darrell
Wilson every time someone comes and I say before we hire you we are going to run
a check, and the man or woman is sitting right there in front of me. I just
thought I ought to put that on record because I don't think it is just the
police department ..
Mayor D.uckers - Thank you Carmen.
Mr. Olson - I think to I answer your question Carmen, we are discussing
the Police Department because this is the only department addressed by the
letter that we received from the Office of Revenue Sharing. I think that we can
justify many of these things, and I don't mind going on record right now as
saying that I think this community, and every community, would expect their
officers in the police department to have credibility, if not you are going to
lose the cases in court directly proportionate to those that do not have a
credible background. This is going to be.the first thing challenged by the
defense attorney whether it is a civil or criminal case. We want these people
to be responsible and we want them to be dependable, stable, willing and capable
to testify and to learn and know the ordinances of this city, and the laws of
the State of Kansas. Their attitude toward laws, their attitude toward the
general public, their integrity. These are all qualities that are essential if
you are going to uphold the laws of the city, state of federal government, and
this is the type of administration that I think the Chief and I and Bill Harris
and anyone else is committed and dedicated to.
Chief Woody - Mr. Mayor, if I might, we have never been charged with
any specific charge, nor had any kind of a hearing on any specific charge. This
whole thing is always in generalities. They say you are breaking the law. We
say what are we doing, they say well that is all right. Well who said. Well
that - you will find out. You see we never seem to pin it down and that is what
is killing the policemen, not literally, but it is killing our morale and things.
We want somebody to point at us and name the date, what you have done, and have
a hearing by the simple due process of law. But we never do that, and whatever
happens here isn't going to be the last you are going to hear of it. Certainly
we haven't heard from the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, or anybody yet,
and I am sure if this comes out all right, this same complaint is going to come
up again from somebody, from the Department of Defense, and we really feel that
way. First it was funny to us. It is not funny any more. So if they have a
charge, I think they should be specific, the charges and point it out or let us
alone. I think it is just that simple.
Mayor Duckers - Bill, I have a question. On applications, you do not
ask the race, or list their race on an application do you? Is that on an application?
A'.3
Mr. Harris - We do not on an application form. We have, as the City
Manager mentioned, developed in the last several months, as a result of some of
these visits, some different forms and methods of record keeping and this type
of thing. The application itself does not call for information related to race,
sex, and so forth. We have a separate form that we've tabled, "applicant
characteristic data", and that is where we do ask the applicant for this type of
information and it is retained in the personnel office for statistical purposes
only, and it is kept absolutely segregated from that application form. The
departments never see that. The Personnel Director controls it and we use that
information strictly to compile the type of information ..
Mayor Duckers - That was the reason for my question. I was wondering
how on earth you could compile the data that they want on how many minorities
apply, women and so on, if you can't have that on the application.
Mr. Harris - .. This was very frustrating to us for quite a long
period of time. They were asking us for this information and at the same time
telling us, or as we were understanding it, telling us it was illegal to obtain
it. Well they finally got around to telling us how we could do it, so as of
last October, November, something like that we started keeping a separate filing
system on it.
Mayor Duckers - I see.
Mr. Harris - And I might add this, I think we just have to concur with
what Mr. Weisgerber is suggesting here, that we respond to this letter, supply
them the information because there are a number of things that we have done,
different forms that we have developed, different record systems that this
particular agency is not aware of. They had investigators out here in May, we
didn't hear anything back from him and as the City Manager mentioned, he was
going to get or try to get some information for us on test validation and we
never heard a word; but in the mean time, we have developed some different forms
and procedures and so forth that this particular agency has not been made aware
of, and I think some of it, I hope it will satisfy them.
Commissioner Graves - In light of that do we still want to pursue this
law suit, or should we. I agree with Bill, I think we ought to send our amended
or resubmit what we have already sent and they didn't bother to read or whatever,
but I am not in any big mood to sue the government.
Mayor Duckers - I am not in any big mood not to either, and I think
that it is probably a matter that we need to discuss privately, but you know
am not in the mood at all to back down and I think that we need to let them know
that we mean business and this is just no two bit bluff that we are putting up,
because I am just as serious as I sit here about this and I think that it is
time that we put it on somebody. Put up or shut up.
Commissioner Geis - Will, may I ask a question of you as Director of
Human Relations Commission? Have you ever, through the course of just talking
with various people ever, had anybody comment about the discriminitory hiring
practices of the police department, where they wouldn't go on record, or is this
anything that has ever come up, I mean where somebody might not have been able
to document it?
Will Burnett - Not to my knowledge. I think Mrs. Denning is over
reacting and I think we are over reacting too right at this particular time
because I do feel that our employment practices as it relates to hiring is
really updated and I'll put it against any city in Kansas, in the State or
anywhere else as far as we have it documented. I think what she is asking for
us to do is to really show what we do have and how we are carrying out those
type of procedures that we do when we talk in terms of hiring applicants. The
only thing that I can say is that the recruitment effort, as it has been stated
here, is one of the things that we should be in terms talking in what can we do
to get minorities on the force? We have to look at the things such as the work
force here in Salina, we have very few minorities and it is just a hard thing to
get out and hire minorities in this job classification. Number one is that most
of the people around here, the minorities, know each other and you are talking
in terms of a psychological thing too, where I don't want to be a policeman
because all my friends out here, if I have to arrest one of them. It just
depends on how you look at it. So I think we can document anything that they
wanted and let's not over react to what is on those papers.
Ar
Commissioner Simpson - I think those are good comments, and Mr. Mayor
to consider whether we are going to file a law suit, I would move that we adjourn
to executive session with our attorney to discuss that possibility.
Commissioner Geis - I second it.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
The Commission recessed at 4:58 p.m. and reconvened at 5:18 P.M.
Mayor Duckers - Upon the advice of our legal counsel, the Commission
has decided that they would respond to Mrs. Denning's letter of December 7th,
answering all of the allegations and take no further action on the proposed law
suit at this time. Mr. Bengtson would you care to make any further comments as
far as the media is concerned?
Mr. Bengtson - Not at this time.
A motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner
Simpson that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned.
Ayes: (5)• Nays: (0). Motion carried. The meeting adjourned at 5:20 P.M.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk