05-07-1979 Minutes1
City of Salina, Kansas
Regular Meeting of the Board
of Commissioners
May 7, 1979
The Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners met in the City
Commission Meeting Room, City -County Building, on Monday, May 7, 1979, at four
o'clock p.m.
The Mayor asked everyone to stand for the opening ceremony.
There were present:
Mayor Karen M. Graves, Chairman presiding
Commissioner Roy W. Allen
Commissioner Keith G. Duckers
Commissioner Dan S. Geis
Commissioner Merle A. Hodges
comprising a quorum of the Board, also:
L. 0. Bengtson, City Attorney
Rufus L. Nye, City Manager
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
Absent:
None
printed. The Minutes of the Regular Meeting April 30, 1979 were approved as
MAYOR GRAVES welcomed the new City Manager, Rufus L. Nye.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the t4eek of May 13 through 20, 1979 - "NATIONAL
NURSING HOME WEEK". The proclamation was read by Anita Payne, Activity Director
of Shalimar Plaza Nursing Home for Shalimar Plaza Nursing Home, Kenwood View
Nursing Home, Windsor Villas and Windsor Estates.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Month of May, 1979 - "PLAN A VACATION IN
SALINA MONTH". The proclamation was read by James G. Robertson, Director of the
Salina Convention and Tourist Bureau.
THE MAYOR PROCLAIMED the Week of May 6 through 12, 1979 - "HOSPITAL
WEEK IN SALINA". The proclamation was read by Clay D. Edmands, Asbury Hospital
Administrator, for Asbury and St. John's Hospitals.
STAFF AGENDA
AN ORDINANCE was introduced for second reading entitled: "AN ORDINANCE
providing for the amendment of Ordinance Number 8526, the same being Chapter 36
of the Salina Code, and the Zoning District Map therein and thereby adopted and
providing for the rezoning of certain property within the City and prescribing
the proper uses thereof." (Z79-9 filed by the Salina City Planning Commission
for the rezoning of Lots 1 through 5, and a vacated alley in Bishop's Addition
from C-5 to R-3.) A motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commission
Hodges to adopt the ordinance as read and the following vote was had: Ayes:
Allen, Duckers, Geis, Hodges, Graves (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor
approved the ordinance and it is numbered 8712. The ordinance was introduced
for first reading April 30, 1979.
THE COMMISSIONERS CONTINUED a public hearing on the annexation of
Golden Acres Subdivision. (The annexation was tabled for 90 days on January 22,
1979. Mr. Beverly requested a meeting with the City Commission on March 5, 1979
and action was tabled for 60 days.)
A motion was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner
Allen, to remove the matter from the table for consideration. Ayes: (5). "lays:
(0). Motion carried.
G
Mr. Bengtson explained - Mr. Beverly appeared and he was willing to
enter into a written agreement whereby he would agree to annexation in the event
that any of the property that he owned or that you sought to annex would be
either sold and/or developed by him. After that meeting I contacted Dan Hebert
who does work with the Planning Department on this to research the proposition
as to whether a written agreement could be entered into whereby he would agree
to annexation in the development and/or sale of the property and Dan called me
back sometime later and and indicated he felt such an agreement could be prepared
and if filed for record would be binding upon Mr. Beverly in regards to this. I
talked to Dan this morning and he indicated he didn't have the agreement completed
but probably would have it completed within the next week or ten days which I
could submit to you for your consideration, and also to Mr. Beverly and if
approved by both sides could be filed for record.
Mr. Beverly was present and said he would like to enter into a contract
with the city.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Allen, seconded by Commissioner
Duckers to table the matter for two weeks. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). P -lotion
carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner
Hodges to introduce an ordinance for first reading prohibiting loitering by
persons under 18 years of age in or about places selling cereal malt beverages
and excluding certain specified areas from the provisions thereof; amending
Section 6-55 of the Salina Code and repealing the existing section. (Bowling
alleys and the Bicentennial Center) Ayes: Allen, Duckers, Hodges, Graves (4).
Nays: Geis (1). Motion carried.
Ordinance Passed: Number:
A RESOLUTION was introduced and passed entitled: "A RESOLUTION granting
the Salina Recreation Commission the right to control the concessions at its
sponsored events, repealing Resolution Number 3421."
Don Jolley, Recreation Commission Supervisior, said this resolution
now includes the Schilling ball diamond complex as well as Indian Rock and some
of the others, and also does include activites that are scheduled by the Recreati
office as well as those that are sponsored by the Recreation office.
A motion was made by Commissioner Allen, seconded by Commissioner
Duckers to adopt the Resolution as read and the following vote was had: Ayes:
Allen, Duckers, Geis, Hodges, Graves (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor
approved the Resolution and it is numbered 3423.
A STAFF RECOMMENDATION was received that supervision, coordination of
scheduling, maintenance and management of the adult baseball diamond be turned
over to the Salina Recreation Commission.
Bill Harris - Madam Mayor and Commissioners, we have been criticized
in the past for the lack, or apparent lack of cooperation between the Recreation
Commission and the City, so it appears that once we make a special effort to
cooperate, and it backfires and we end up in the soup anyway. A little background
on this Mayor, came about possibly a month or most of that, three or four weeks
ago, and the staff and the Recreation Commission and the city staff got together
to work out the details of maintenance on the Lower Indian Rock facilities and
the diamonds out in the Schilling Area, and this worked out very smoothly between
us in all areas in all aspects of the maintenance; but then that meeting the
Recreation Commission director, Don Jolley, mentioned to us that that adult
diamond, last year, stood idle some quite a bit of time while he was in need of
softball facilities and now this year Don and Steve Snyder are here with some
statistics that I want them to present to you, but they have a tremendous increase
since last year in the softball end of it. Many more teams to try to accomodate
and we have very limited facilities particularly until the Lower Indian Rock
diamonds and until the determination is made that we can utilize those. Now
unless that happens it is going to obviously doing to change the picture, to
what extent I don't know, however, the adult baseball diamond being immediately
adjacent to the softball diamonds in the Schilling area and being lighted we
feel in staff, and our recommendation to you is that the control, the operation
and the maintenance and the record keeping of the scheduling be turned over to
3
Mayor Graves - Just for my own enlightenment, and so I can tell how
long we are going to have to take on this, how many people are here, give me a
show of hands, on the baseball question, so I have some idea. (Almost everyone
in the room) Is there a spokesman from the Salina Adult Baseball Committee?
the Recreation Commission. This is public property, built with public funds.
We feel it should be the
under control and management of a public agency. In
our opinion that agency should be the Recreation Commission. Now the diamond
was built primarily for adult baseball use. !^!e are not suggesting that that be
changed in to
any, any degree whatsoever, that it serve primarily the Babe Ruth
and American Legion All
programs. the Recreation Commission is asking for and
what in
we are support of, is that any time that diamond is not being used for
those intended that
purposes I just cited, that it be made available to the
Recreation Commission to use for their softball In
program. return for that the
Recreation Commission is willing to maintain the diamond. They are going to be
out there maintaining the other diamond, it is only logical that this one be
cared for right along with the others. The City has committed to building a
good, in fact I have heard it said a number of times, a first class adult baseball
facility. I don't know what the definition of first class is, but we have what
we think is a very good facility, and we intend to see that it is well maintained.
Now there is a dispute and I don't know that much about softball or baseball
either one, but part of the dispute comes in fact that there are two schools of
thought. One being that you cannot play softball on a hardball diamond, that
you are going to 2 things, 2 possibilities. That you damage the hardball diamond,
secondly that there is potential for more injuries. The second one I can buy to
some degree but apparently that is not a concern with the softball people, they
want to use it. It is obviously not going to be used enough by the softball
people to damage that diamond. It is a skinned diamond, we don't have grass in
the infield, and some of these blanks Don and the people that are really in the
recreation business and involved in the programs will want to elaborate on I am
sure. But that is pretty much the staff's position. We feel and this was our
comment to the people the other day when we met, we met with the baseball
people,
with the Babe Ruth representatives, the American Legion and your Adult Baseball
Committee and members of our staff. We told them that our is that this
position
being a public facility, and where we are confronted with limited facilities,
particularly the Recreation Commission, that we think we have the responsibility
to the public to get the most for the buck and the most use out of these facilitie,
Now, one other thing I would like to say before I sit down and I am sure there
are many other people who want to respond to you, address you on this matter.
That involves the Adult Baseball Committee appointed by the City Commission. I
was asked in the meeting other day, mainly by Bill Burke, and by the way Bill I
want to commend you for the articles that you have written subsequent to that
meeting. I might have written it a little different but I think that you did a
good job of covering it, and I sure that it was a real task to be objective
about it. But I am sincere in my compliment to you. Bill asked me about the
Adult Baseball Committee, whether it should it exist or what good would it be or
something like that, and I said in all honesty, and this is strictly my opinion
and I didn't mean it, and I told them at the time, as a discredit to any individual
on there or as a disparaging remark. That I don't see the need for the committee
and I stuck my foot in my mouth for want of a better word, I think I said you
are window dressing, and I am standing here today and I have the same opinion,
that I don't think, and this is entirely up to the City Commission, that is what
I explained the other day, I don't think that there is a need for this committee,
that that facility should be placed under the management of the Recreation
Commission. Now, if Don Jolley and his staff cannot do a satisfactory job for
the public then there should be somebody in their place doing it. I said that
in the meeting. Now to me, these organizations, the Babe Ruth and American
Legion, and this is the Recreation thinking, they should work out their schedules
and turn them into the Recreation Commission. The Recreation Commission does
not want to set the schedules for them, and all they are going to do is the
record keeping job on those schedules, and any time that is left over, they want
to use them. Any time that is left over means, in my thinking, that there is
not being any makeup games, or practice games on that facility, that those
things should not have a higher priority than the organized program that the
Recreation Commission is trying to carry out and provide for the people of
Salina. Unless you have questions I will sit down and let someone else talk.
Mayor Graves - Just for my own enlightenment, and so I can tell how
long we are going to have to take on this, how many people are here, give me a
show of hands, on the baseball question, so I have some idea. (Almost everyone
in the room) Is there a spokesman from the Salina Adult Baseball Committee?
E
John Heline - Thank you for this time, as the Commission is quite well
aware of, this has been a matter for discussion for a long period of time through
the process of, since the Bicentennial bond issue was conceived and passed and
being built, so it has been over this period of time. A number of committees
and a number of people have worked for a long period of time developing a
replacement program for the existing diamonds that were displaced by the
Bicentennial Center, and it was agreed approximately a year ago that the Indian
Rock diamonds would be built they would be placed there under the direction of
the Salina Recreation Commission, the diamond would be built out at Schilling
for baseball, and that would remain under the control of the Adult Baseball
Committee. This was agreed and approved by the City Commission at that time.
The Committee is asking that this particular situation still be placed under the
Salina (Adult) Baseball Committee because a good part of those participating in
that are not members of the Salina Recreation but other groups and they feel
that promises were made from different factions that the baseball diamond would
be kept as a baseball diamond and I am saying this in a long range plan. I
don't believe any member of this particular committee has any objection
participating to the fullest, particularly this year, when all diamonds that
have been planned under the new adjustment so they can use it for as many activiti s
as possible; however it is a strong contention, and I think the people that are
involved in the baseball program back this up as a strong contention that the
Schilling Adult Baseball diamond should be kept under the specific direction of
the Baseball Committee as appointed by the Commission. That is really all I
have to say.
Bill Harris - It was agreed that this Adult Baseball Committee would
maintain it, in fact I think Mr. Bondy told us the other day they hired someone
to maintain it for them. Is that not correct, and several of our people and I
have to concur with this, I think there was a poor job of maintenance done, not
that that can't be improved upon, but again we do feel that that maintenance
responsibility should go to the Recreation Commission and if I may, one thing I
failed to add about this committee, if it is the thinking of the City Commission
or the Adult Baseball people that that committee should continue as a watch dog,
so to speak, to protect the interest of the adult baseball program, we certainly
have no problems with that.
Commissioner Allen - John, can you tell us what has it worked more
effectively under the Adust Baseball Board rather than the Commission? Hhy has
it worked more effectively if you leave the diamond under your committee's
direction?
John Heline - I think primarily because the majority of the use would
be by people that are outside of the Recreation Commission. In other words the
Babe Ruth program, the American Legion program, the semi -pro program that they
started a couple of years ago, none of these programs are connected with the
Salina Recreation Commission, and this is where the majority of the useage is.
I would like to make one other comment. I think we have to disregard the figures
that might be presented as far as the useage for the year 1978 bacause when
schedules were required to be turned in for these various associations there was
no indication there was going to be a ball diamond for adults, so all of those
people were advised to seek locations otherwise, so I think you have to disregard
the fact that there was not much usage on the diamond last year, simply because
Commissioner Duckers - John are you saying that you have no objections
whatsoever to softball
program using it this year while the other diamonds are
in limbo or until they are completed as long as
you ...
John Heline - ... I don't think anybody would object to that, the
purpose is a long range program that they would be able to develop that into an
excellent baseball facility similar to what we had in Kenwood Park in Blue Jay
Stadium, and I think I can speak for the committee in toto on that, that nobody
objects to adjustments for a period of time until the program gets totally
underway, but we do object to the fact of having the diamond taken away from a
group that was promised and has handled for a number of years.
Commissioner Geis - Who maintains that, John?
John Heline - The City maintains the diamonds.
Mayor Graves - Does the City maintain it, I don't think last summer.
Bill Harris - It was agreed that this Adult Baseball Committee would
maintain it, in fact I think Mr. Bondy told us the other day they hired someone
to maintain it for them. Is that not correct, and several of our people and I
have to concur with this, I think there was a poor job of maintenance done, not
that that can't be improved upon, but again we do feel that that maintenance
responsibility should go to the Recreation Commission and if I may, one thing I
failed to add about this committee, if it is the thinking of the City Commission
or the Adult Baseball people that that committee should continue as a watch dog,
so to speak, to protect the interest of the adult baseball program, we certainly
have no problems with that.
Commissioner Allen - John, can you tell us what has it worked more
effectively under the Adust Baseball Board rather than the Commission? Hhy has
it worked more effectively if you leave the diamond under your committee's
direction?
John Heline - I think primarily because the majority of the use would
be by people that are outside of the Recreation Commission. In other words the
Babe Ruth program, the American Legion program, the semi -pro program that they
started a couple of years ago, none of these programs are connected with the
Salina Recreation Commission, and this is where the majority of the useage is.
I would like to make one other comment. I think we have to disregard the figures
that might be presented as far as the useage for the year 1978 bacause when
schedules were required to be turned in for these various associations there was
no indication there was going to be a ball diamond for adults, so all of those
people were advised to seek locations otherwise, so I think you have to disregard
the fact that there was not much usage on the diamond last year, simply because
schedules were designed so it would not be used, they either played out of town,
some games were completely cancelled, the American Legion did not have a team at
all because at the time they felt they could not make a commitment they did not
have a place to play.
Commissioner Allen - The Babe Ruth and the American Legion are not
under the Recreation Committee program?
John Heline - No sir.
Mayor Graves - hJhere did Marymount and 14esleyan play last year? Did
they also use that adult diamond at Schilling?
John Heline - Again, if I am not mistaken, the diamond was not prepared
in time for them make it useable for them last year.
Mayor Graves - .. they are outside....
John Heline - They would, I am sure, inquire in which to use it in
future time. Their program does not really affect too much because most of
their play is completed prior to school being dismissed before the other programs
start.
Don Jolley - No, and I will tell you why. i•Je have 31 more teams,
adult softball teams this year than we had a year ago. Of that 31 teams only 7
of them are women's teams. "!ow the diamonds at Lower Indian Rock which have a
240 foot outfield perimiter and that is the basis on which we designed those
diamonds, will accomodate women's softball; however the other 24 teams are
either men's teams or are coed teams involving both men and women and they must
have a larger facility on which to play. This means we have to find some place
for those 24 teams to play, preferably at the Schilling diamonds which are
larger or we are faced with the problem of even handing back the entry fees to
some of these teams and simply telling them they can't play ball. This involves
about 120 additional games and when you consider that on a given ball park you
play three games a night I think that you can see there that you are talking
about 30 nights someplace that we have to find in order to play that number of
ball games. We can't accommodate anywhere that many on the space that is availabl
on any baseball diamond. We know that. About all we can expect to pick up
there is about 20 days during the season; but the 20 days will allow us to play
about 60 of those 120 games and will alleviate our problem about 50%. I also,
while I am on my feet would like to comment regarding the matter of playing both
baseball and softball on a particular facility and as I said at the meeting that
Bill Harris referred to the other day, it is not the ideal circumstance and yet
it is done, and it is done a great deal. And as a matter of fact we don't have
to go outside Salina to find an example of it being done in at least the last
five years that I know of, in the time that I have been in town, and it continues
to be done every day, and that is over at Sunset Park. Sunset Park is a regulatio
baseball diamond. We play baseball over there five nights a week, and already
we have seven weekends scheduled for adult softball tournaments on that same
Mayor Graves - But you would be willing, if your board continued to
consider them part of the adult baseball community.
John Heline - They always have. I don't think there are any questions
that the
prime concerns that they have is that the baseball diamond be dedicated
to the
use of hardball play, baseball play.
Don Jolley - I have just one point to make regarding that question.
Kansas Wesleyan did play some ball games this spring. They called our office
and because the diamond out there had been reseeded and so we were tryinq to
keep
people off that area, we scheduled their ball games over at Sunset Park
which was my no means ideal, but they did schedule and play a number of college
ball
games in Sunset Park because that diamond wasn't available.
Mayor Graves - While you are up, Don, let me ask a question if the
chair may do this. You said you have about 25 softball teams that don't have
a
place to play. When Lower Indian Rock Park is done, wouldn't those teams be
able to play some games there since we built eight diamonds instead of six
diamonds?
Don Jolley - No, and I will tell you why. i•Je have 31 more teams,
adult softball teams this year than we had a year ago. Of that 31 teams only 7
of them are women's teams. "!ow the diamonds at Lower Indian Rock which have a
240 foot outfield perimiter and that is the basis on which we designed those
diamonds, will accomodate women's softball; however the other 24 teams are
either men's teams or are coed teams involving both men and women and they must
have a larger facility on which to play. This means we have to find some place
for those 24 teams to play, preferably at the Schilling diamonds which are
larger or we are faced with the problem of even handing back the entry fees to
some of these teams and simply telling them they can't play ball. This involves
about 120 additional games and when you consider that on a given ball park you
play three games a night I think that you can see there that you are talking
about 30 nights someplace that we have to find in order to play that number of
ball games. We can't accommodate anywhere that many on the space that is availabl
on any baseball diamond. We know that. About all we can expect to pick up
there is about 20 days during the season; but the 20 days will allow us to play
about 60 of those 120 games and will alleviate our problem about 50%. I also,
while I am on my feet would like to comment regarding the matter of playing both
baseball and softball on a particular facility and as I said at the meeting that
Bill Harris referred to the other day, it is not the ideal circumstance and yet
it is done, and it is done a great deal. And as a matter of fact we don't have
to go outside Salina to find an example of it being done in at least the last
five years that I know of, in the time that I have been in town, and it continues
to be done every day, and that is over at Sunset Park. Sunset Park is a regulatio
baseball diamond. We play baseball over there five nights a week, and already
we have seven weekends scheduled for adult softball tournaments on that same
�i
facility. We have been doing that for the last five years that I know of and I
don't know what the experience was in years back beyond that, but in terms of
injuries or lack of injuries, in terms of being able to utilize the facility for
both purposes, we have been doing it there for five years and we have had no
accidents or injuries in any way that could be attributed to the use of the
diamond for both purposes.
Commissioner Allen - Why do you think it would be a more effective
program if the adult diamonds is under your department?
Don Jolley - I beg your pardon, Roy?
Commissioner Allen - I say, why do think that the program would be
more effective if you have the responsibility for the adult diamond?
Don Jolley - Well first of all, we do have a well qualified and well
trained maintenance staff that works the Schilling ball diamond. Nfe maintained
three of those diamonds last year and the other diamond was maintained by the
Babe Ruth people and so on. It just really doesn't make that much sense to have
three of those diamonds maintained by one group of people and then the other
group of people, particularly a non tax supported group, a private group in
effect, having to come along and provide the funds to maintain the other facility.
It can best be done, I think, by us, and certainly when we talk about major
maintenance, when we talk about replacement of lights, the focusing of lights,
and if you want me to tell you how much it costs to pet somebody to climb one of
those poles just to refocus a bunch of lights I can do that; but many of the
major items, the backfilling of dirt year to year on those infields, the purchase
of home plates and pitching rubber and I can go on and on. Really there is no
private group, particularly a baseball league, that generally has the kinds of
resources available to make those things available. Now I think it is a lot
easier for those of us who are in the public sector to justify the expenditure
of those kinds of funds to plan a ball diamond like that if the general public
and not just one or two baseball organizations is getting some use out of those
facilities and that of course, is the primary reason why I think it ought to be
made available to every group, and I emphasize the fact we are not asking to
usurp any of the time that these other organizations have asked for on that
diamond. We have both of their schedules. As far as I am concerned those dates
are fixed and they can play on them without any question. l,de are only talking
about dates on which they have not scheduled anything and in order to alleviate
our problem we will use it on those dates.
Commissioner Hodges - Don, how many diamonds do you have available for
softball use?
Don Jolley - Well, if we are talking about the adult softball program,
we have three at Schilling, Centennial Park is four, and I am talking about our
league play, I am not talking about tournaments. That is four, and then we use
the Kennedy School ground for some of our women's softball, because that is the
only thing we have available at the present time. Now that will be taken over
to Indian Rock, some of the women's softball when that facility is available and
I think there is a very good point made here that once Indian Rock is finished
although some people I think have a misapprehension about this thing. They are
assuming that the opening of Indian Rock is going to alleviate all of our problems
as it relates to adult softball and it is not going to do that at all.
Commissioner Duckers - Don, this is where I have a real, you are
faking me out with your footwork, I think, because almost the last time that we
had one of these hassles over baseball, you were saying six diamonds were adequa
and we were saying, no we are going to build eight. Now you are saying that
they are carved in stone and they can't be changed from baseball to softball, or
something. You completely loose me on that, I ..
Don Jolley - .. No, if you will recall, Mr. Duckers, at the time that
we decided to build the facilities both at Schilling and at Indian Rock, the
facilities at Indian Rock were designed and planned to provide facilities for
the children's ball program. Children 15 years of age and below. That is what
they were designed for. That was the purpose of it. The ball diamonds at
Schilling were built specifically to accommodate 16 or over, and all of the
adults. That is the way they were designed and planned and I am sure that was
done with the city's understanding at the time.
Commissioner Duckers - Because we felt it would serve the needs, but
it is ridiculous not to use the Lower Indian Rock diamonds to the maximum of
their capacity, it seems to me and if in fact they should have longer base
lines, now is the time to design it that they are not finished, and it doesn't
seem to me to be a monumental task to change at this point.
Don Jolley - Well placing the eight diamonds in there creats a problem
in that regard because the additional diamonds of course are located in such a
way that I am not sure you can get the base distance that you need for men's
softball.
Commissioner Duckers - On two of them?
Don Jolley - I don't know. I would have to see the plans aaain and
have to extend some lines and see where we might be.
done. Mayor Graves - Well you have seen the diamonds though, they are almost
Don Jolley - I beg your pardon.
Mayor Graves - You have seen the diamonds. They are out there and ..
Commissioner Hodges - In other words you have no foul lines that would
extend to 270 or 300?
Don Jolley - !sJe are at 240, and ..
Commissioner Hodges - a 270 down the line in softball isn't bad.
Don Jolley - The slow pitch softball plays at 300 feet. That is the
prescribed distance, and I am not saying it can't be done, and just as for
example in the matter of women's softball, we originally didn't have in mind
taking it out there but that is one of the reasons we designed 240 feet foul
lines was so that it could accommodate women's softball if we had to take it
down there.
Commissioner Hodges - Don, also, do you include Sunset in future use
of softball?
Don Jolley - Yes, and I will tell you why we would plan to do that.
Right now the baseball we are playing there is our junior league which is the
same age as Babe Ruth. Not Senior Babe Ruth, but regular Babe Ruth and police
league, and in recent years we have reduced the age on the police league, they
used to have 13 and 14 year old boys and they no longer have that. They stop
off at 12 years of age now, so we will be in a position when the Indian Rock
diamonds are available to take police league away from Sunset and put them at
Lower Indian Rock and open up Sunset a couple of three of nights a week for
adult softball.
Commissioner Hodges - Do you use Hawthorne?
Don Jolley - No.
Commissioner Hodges - It is not useable?
Don Jolley - The lighting system is inadequate, it is really an unsafe
facility and we don't ...
Commissioner Hodges - .. now are you talking about unsafe at night or
unsafe during the day, or both?
Don Jolley - At night.
Commissioner Hodges - In other words you could use it during the day
on weekends.
M
Don Jolley - We have it maintained now as a practice facility. 14e do
not schedule any league play on it because there are other school facilities
that we feel are better, but it is available.
Commissioner Hodges - A year from now, then you would probably have
access to nine diamonds used for softball.
Don Jolley - For adult softball?
Commissioner Hodges - Uh huh, at least during the day.
Don Jolley - Our situation is qoinq to be a lot better. I don't know
how many more teams, but we had 31 more teams this year. I don't know what we
are going to have next year. Now you know, I realize that we may be at a
saturation point. And we may be in a position of having to simply tell softball
people that we have got all the teams we can possibly accommodate, but I would
say that next year the problem is going to be much less acute than it is right
now.
Mayor Graves - Before you sit down, I understand now correct me, that
you would be willing to, if your office scheduled these games, or if people went
to your office that you would give American Legion and Babe Ruth priority on
that diamond.
Bill Harris - Okay, the point being, it is our feeling the people of
Salina should be accommodated before we accommodate teams from other communities.
If we have the facilities to invite outside teams in, fine, but if we are really
in this type of a crunch we feel the people of Salina should have first crack at
the facility, and secondly we discussed in that meeting the other day the need
for a practice diamond and this was in the long range plans when that area was
laid out out there. We think that we should pursue that and it would appear
that we could build the practice diamond without a great deal of expense. It
will take some time for our street department to haul some dirt in, do the
grading, engineering people to set grade and all of that type of stuff. Don
tells us he has fence for the foul lines, the matter of when the major expenses,
and probably the largest expense we need to build a backstop maybe $2,500 or
$3,000 he tells me. No lights. We think that the practice diamond is needed
and would be used; but I think this thing of serving or accommodating out-of-
town teams prior to the organized recreation program serving everybody that
wants to participate in those programs should be considered.
Mr. Evans - Madam Chairman, I wasn't going to make any remarks until I
heard a remark made about non-exempt tax organizations versus free enterprise.
I think we should go back and review how this program got started in the first
place. I think it is the consensus of this group here that there is an era of
cooperation between the committee and the Recreation Commission; therefore I
would have to urge you to leave it the way it is and I will tell you why. The
last twenty - we are going into our 26th year as Evans Grain Company sponsoring
American Legion. I am going to give you these figures roughly because I think
it has to be said because there are people willing to put up their money to help
youth in this town as well as adult programs. For the last going on the 26th
year it is my responsibility to raise certain funds for the American Legion and
also the Babe Ruth proqram. In our own case the Evans Grain Company for the
Don Jolley -
Yes, we already have copies of their schedules, and as I
say, we would honor those
schedules without any question. The only thinq we
would do would be to schedule
Babe Ruth has anything
the dates on which neither the American Legion nor
to schedule.
Bill Harris -
that Don made to me and
There is a point that relates very closely to that,
that I think should be discussed. As
as long as that diamond
it is controlled by the
I understand it,
is not under the Recreation Commission control, that if
adult committee and in the Babe Ruth, that in the Babe
Ruth program there is a
district that is set up and they have to accommodate
outside of Salina teams
to utilize and play on it. Is that right Don?
Don Jolley - There may be some Babe Ruth people here, but it is my
understanding that the Babe Ruth district here which is much larger than the
City of Salina, so long
Babe Ruth
as any team in that district petitions to come in to the
program, they
have to accommodate them.
Bill Harris - Okay, the point being, it is our feeling the people of
Salina should be accommodated before we accommodate teams from other communities.
If we have the facilities to invite outside teams in, fine, but if we are really
in this type of a crunch we feel the people of Salina should have first crack at
the facility, and secondly we discussed in that meeting the other day the need
for a practice diamond and this was in the long range plans when that area was
laid out out there. We think that we should pursue that and it would appear
that we could build the practice diamond without a great deal of expense. It
will take some time for our street department to haul some dirt in, do the
grading, engineering people to set grade and all of that type of stuff. Don
tells us he has fence for the foul lines, the matter of when the major expenses,
and probably the largest expense we need to build a backstop maybe $2,500 or
$3,000 he tells me. No lights. We think that the practice diamond is needed
and would be used; but I think this thing of serving or accommodating out-of-
town teams prior to the organized recreation program serving everybody that
wants to participate in those programs should be considered.
Mr. Evans - Madam Chairman, I wasn't going to make any remarks until I
heard a remark made about non-exempt tax organizations versus free enterprise.
I think we should go back and review how this program got started in the first
place. I think it is the consensus of this group here that there is an era of
cooperation between the committee and the Recreation Commission; therefore I
would have to urge you to leave it the way it is and I will tell you why. The
last twenty - we are going into our 26th year as Evans Grain Company sponsoring
American Legion. I am going to give you these figures roughly because I think
it has to be said because there are people willing to put up their money to help
youth in this town as well as adult programs. For the last going on the 26th
year it is my responsibility to raise certain funds for the American Legion and
also the Babe Ruth proqram. In our own case the Evans Grain Company for the
last 25 years has averaged over $9,000 per year to help with youth programs in
this City of Salina. Therefore I feel like I can speak with some authority. We
are not complaining. I go to Milt Morrison, I go to Beech Aircraft, go to Bill
Graves, Milt Morrison and the banks in Salina and they take the lead on raising
this money each year, in addition to what we give, so what I am saying to you is
that there are still people willing to put up their money and I think it would
be a big mistake for you people to put this under Recreation Commission at this
time, when this board is willing to cooperate and work with them to the fullest
degree. It has worked for 25 years or longer and I think it is your duty to let
us try one more year, and if it doesn't work you can always change it, but I
don't like this idea of people saying it should go under the tax-free system. I
expressed myself in February, at the Lakeview Lodge to Mr. Jolly and others how
I felt about the Recreation Commission trying to take on items under the tax-
free enterprise system. I don't like that. We are trilling to put up our money
and I am willing to continue to raise money for this project and I just hope
you can see your way clear to continue with us for one more year. Thank you.
(Applause)
Cleve Dunn - I don't want to say too much. A couple of things I want
to bring up. Don Jolley spoke about the baseball diamond accommodating both
softball and baseball. It does. It doesn't accommodate the caliber of ball
player that is playing out at Schilling. It doesn't accommodate the boys that
are going to hit the ball 350 to 400 feet, and there is a lot of difference in
the boy that is going to hit it 200 feet and the one that hits it 350 or 400, or
one that throws 90 miles an hour or the one that throws 50 miles an hour. And
this is a safety factor. Number two, about the district baseball tournament he
is concerned about. It is not a district baseball tournament, it is a regional
baseball tournament of all seven states that are coming in here and it is"occurrin
after, I am sure, all Recreation Commission baseball and softball programs are
over. It starts on the 10th of August. Now I remember in that meeting the
other day they said the scheduling was over about then. And again, I want to
remind you, the Commission, that they did turn that ball diamond over to the
Baseball Committee or the baseball board, and it is public arm, it is not a
private group.
Mayor Graves - Is there anything anybody else that wants to speak from
the audience.
John Heline - If I might have one more word then I would recline. I
would urge the City Commission to follow the
program that was outlined through
many hours of study by members of the Salina Baseball Committee, the Salina
Recreation Committee and all factions involved. This study was made at the
request of the City Commission to develop a program that would replace the
diamond that
was being displaced by new construction. I think if the City
Commission would go back and study that, that they would find that
recommendation
were made, the City Commission approved, number one that the diamonds would be
replaced to be given to the Salina Recreation Commission; number two that the
adult baseball diamond
would remain under the control of that. Provisions were
also outlined in there that we knew future growth would be required, so this is
why the Schilling area was brought into play because there is room for additional
diamonds out there
to accommodate additional needs of the Salina Recreation
Commission. Considerations must be given to practice for the adult baseball
program as far as baseball is concerned. Scheduling is fine if there are no
changes. But if you schedule and cut off schedules say the first of May, this
does not leave room for possible tournaments and play offs
and many other
activities a baseball program can develop after that time for the current year.
I think
you had previously made a commitment. I would like to see you stay with
it. In
response to Mr. Harris and his statement of possibly out-of-town people
using it.
I would think it would be very difficult for the Salina Recreation
Commission to turn down players that do
not live within the City of Salina or do
not live within USD 305. I think if they will research their records they will
find a good number of all levels of people sponsored by the Salina Recreation
Commission live outside the
of taxing entity that supports the program. Thank
you.
Cleve Dunn - I don't want to say too much. A couple of things I want
to bring up. Don Jolley spoke about the baseball diamond accommodating both
softball and baseball. It does. It doesn't accommodate the caliber of ball
player that is playing out at Schilling. It doesn't accommodate the boys that
are going to hit the ball 350 to 400 feet, and there is a lot of difference in
the boy that is going to hit it 200 feet and the one that hits it 350 or 400, or
one that throws 90 miles an hour or the one that throws 50 miles an hour. And
this is a safety factor. Number two, about the district baseball tournament he
is concerned about. It is not a district baseball tournament, it is a regional
baseball tournament of all seven states that are coming in here and it is"occurrin
after, I am sure, all Recreation Commission baseball and softball programs are
over. It starts on the 10th of August. Now I remember in that meeting the
other day they said the scheduling was over about then. And again, I want to
remind you, the Commission, that they did turn that ball diamond over to the
Baseball Committee or the baseball board, and it is public arm, it is not a
private group.
Mayor Graves - Is there anything anybody else that wants to speak from
the audience.
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An unidentified man - I have one thing in regards to trying to play
softball on .. and baseball at the same time, if you increase a facility to meet
college level baseball, true baseball, you are going to have a pitchers mound,
or should be brought up, Sunset does not have a pitchers mound, therefore that
would be dangerous when you play softball with a pitchers mound and that is what
you really have to have when you play ball and have a good facility, I mean you
are just going to have, you know, one like Sunset. There is no mound or nothing.
But when you get a mound up there it is dangerous to play softball on it.
Commissioner Allen - Madam Mayor, I would like for someone from the
Adult Board to respond to Don Jolly's comments on the care and maintenance of
the diamonds. Would someone do that?
John Heline - Inasmuch as no one else stood up, I will respond. In
the past it has been maintained primarily by the city with help from the units
that have used it. Again, I think the city is certainly capable of providing
the care and maintenance to that diamond. Again, it is being provided for by
taxpayers funds whether it is the city doing it or the Recreation Commission
doing it. Secondly, and I think the committee has agreed if the diamond is to
be used by school entitled such as Marymount or Kansas Wesleyan, there was
always an indication that they should be charged for the use of that facility to
offset any maintenance expenses involved. It was not intended this diamond be
built and maintained for the school purposes without remuneration. I think the
city is certainly capable of handling the maintenance on the diamond.
Commissioner Duckers - John, was not Blue Jay Park historically
maintained with volunteer help with assistance by the city?
John Heline - It was, primarily volunteer ..
Commissioner Duckers - .. and wasn't the degree of how well it was
maintained pretty well dependent upon who happened to be leading at that time?
Some years it was good and some years it was bad.
John Heline - Of course, that was a multi -use situation because of the
rodeos and things that were very difficult to ..
Commissioner Duckers - An awful lot of volunteer hours, and an awful
lot of raised private funds, Mr. Evans mentioned, went into that program.
Commissioner Hodges - How many times a week will that diamond be used
by the baseball people, a week? In other words you are talking about using it
for softball. How many times will it be available?
Earl Bondy- I did some fancy figuring on this and actually we will
have more hours of actual use on that diamond including the Legion than what
there would be on the softball diamonds, of course we play a little later at
night, but every night of the week would be busy except about four or five
Tuesdays.
Commissioner Hodges - In other words you are talking about it will be
used by baseball every night with the possible exceptions ..
Earl Bondy - Monday through Friday I am talking about, and most weekends
and most Saturdays and most Sundays. The Legion most of their games are double-
headers, most of our games are double headers too, but there are different teams
involved, but the diamond will be used. The Legion has just two Tuesdays and my
scheduling I avoided Tuesday and we have it scheduled Monday, Wednesday, Thursday
and Friday, and a few instances where the Legion had it on Thursday, then I
backed into Saturday and a couple of instances into Sunday.
right? Commissioner Hodges - If you get some rain outs, you have had it then,
Earl Bondy - I did also build three days on the end for possible rain
)uts, but ordinarily we would, if possible we would like to get rain outs played
)s soon as possible because if we get them backed into the end of the year, we
Jo have our district tournament that we have to meet a certain deadline on that
ind so we have got that and we have to be throunh by a certain date, and I did
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Put time in there for a post season tournament which we have been having annually
for the 8 teams, with the three like the big 8 has been playing a three round
robin deal, so actually we are on pretty short circuit from the standpoint of
Possible rain out dates if we get a lot of them and I have been involved in Babe
Ruth ever since we started the 8 years I have made out the schedule every year
that we have had Babe Ruth and I have had more trouble this year trying to build
a schedule than probably any time. Now the other point that I would just to
make sure there is no misunderstanding about it, Chapman and Minneapolis will be
in our Senior Babe Ruth league but it is on a home and home basis. Thereby it
is not adding any games to the games in Salina any more than the fact that the
legion is playing home and home with an 8 team league. The games would be
proportioned out on the road and here in Salina both,
Commissioner Allen - are you ready for a motion?
Mayor Graves - Is it motion time?
Jim Pitts - I scheduled my ball games on Saturdays and Sundays duplica-
with the Babe Ruth which I had to work this out together and I do have a few
ball games during the middle of the week like Earl said, a couple of nights,
league games that we had to, to be in the league, but primarily all Saturday and
Sunday double headers, to the point ...
Mayor Graves - What group do you represent?
Jim Pitts - American Legion.
Commissioner Duckers - Karen, I am on Don's Recreation Commission, as
a matter of fact served on that with you as you know and I have great respect
for Don in almost all his decisions, but I am certainly in opposition to his
recommendation here, and he probably suspected that before he came, and I am in
opposition to it for a number of reasons. Not the least of which was brought up
by Dean Evans, the private enterprise system doing something versus government
doing it, and I am always in favor of free enterprise over government when we
can do it. More importantly, I think that I personally made a commitment at the
time of the bond issue, and unlike the governor who recently said one thing
before the election and then said quite another thing after the election when he
voted on capital punishment, I feel that I want to do exactly what we commited
to the tax payers at the time of the bond issue for the Bicentennial Center, and
I am just as serious as I can be on this. I feel that I made a commitment and
the Commissioners that were sitting on this bench at that time did too to continue
adult baseball in Salina under an Adult Baseball Committee, so I am going to
vote that way.
Mayor Graves - Would you like to make a motion?
Commissioner Allen - I will make a motion Madam Mayor ..
Bob Thomas - I have played ball in this town for 50 years. We started
out over here between Roosevelt and Lincoln High School that we had a ball
diamond. It was the only thing we had. So we went to the western league ball
park that was out here over Dry Creek and we were playing there. It was the
first American Legion ball field was out in there. And we have worked all these
years we had an old ball park over in Kenwood diamond, with old wooden stands
and we kept going and kept fighting 'till we got Blue Jay Park. Now you want to
take the whole thing away from the boys, young boys. I had about 200 or 300 of
them, raised in this town and played ball and I think you better leave the
Legion have their own ball park because they practice day and day and day to
play ball, They don't play ball for fun, I can tell you that. They play ball
to win. And when the Cochran, I don't know whether he is here or not, he would
have them over there, and they would practice day and night. Now I don't know
where you are going to play softball if the baseball diamonds are being used all
that time.
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Commissioner Allen - Madam Mayor, I move that we reject the item 5 of
the staff agenda and that the Adult Baseball Board make the diamonds, as much as
possible, to the Recreation Commission when you are not using them.
Commissioner Duckers - Second the motion.
Mayor Graves - Okay, you have heard the motion and the second, is
there any further discussion among the Commissioners.
Commissioner Hodges - Karen, I would like to say something, and I
agree with Roy and Keith to some degree. If we had enough facilities there
would be no problem, and I would like to really seriously look in the formation
of future diamonds in the Schilling area, if the space is available. There is
no doubt, at least from this group, that they will be utilized, and I really
want to be honest and sincere about that. I think we ought to look forward to
more ball diamonds in the Schilling area. I myself don't know how much space is
available. There is another thing that I have to vent my steam about and that
is baseball is a super game, but I have one group of kids I really concern
myself about and that's the kids not good enough to play Babe Ruth baseball.
That want to play baseball and I have had a real burr under my saddle with Babe
Ruth League in the past because of this tremendous stress for excellence and
there has not been a major league ball player out of this town in 10 years.
What I am talking about is there ought to be some program for the kid that can't
hit it 350 feet. I really do. Babe Ruth can go ahead and do their thing, but I
certainly think within the realm of the Recreation Commission there should be a
place available for the kid that can't hit too well, and can't throw too well.
I don't know whether there are that many kids available, but I've been told
there are. Okay.
Bob Thomas - Isn't that what the Recreation man is for?
Commissioner Hodges - That is what I am saying. I think that should
be available.
Bob Thomas - .. all the time, you ought to talk about the little league.
Commissioner Hodges - Well now Bob, that is beside the point at this
discussion. What I am saying is, I think in the future, it is obvious that it
is not going to be done this year, but I think with some real concerted effort,
we can have other diamonds available next year for, and there will be no problem.
I think the American Legion is getting stung because they don't really have a
place to play and those kids ought to be playing 35 and 40 game schedules if
they do it right. I am talking about the kid who is not good enough to make
the American Legion baseball team. You know I think a game of work up is fun.
I like to play it, and I just bring that up for discussion and I think Don, I
would really like for you to .rcrk on that for next year if you could.
Mayor Graves - You will be on that committee and the Recreation
Commission so you will have a chance to. Do we really need to get into this
now, or shall we vote on the .. I don't know if I want to get into that whole
deal or not. Shall we, the motion, are you all ready for the question?
Commissioner Geis - The motion is to reject the recommendation of
supervision etcetera go to Salina Recreation Commission ..
Commissioner Allen - And to make the diamonds available as much as
possible to the Recreation Commission when the adult people are not using them.
Commissioner Geis - Are you then saying in effect that maintain the
status quo?
Mayor Graves - With emphasis on cooperation in allowing people to use
them when they are not in use, is the way I understand the motion?
Commissioner Geis - I would go back to one of John's earlier comments
about, I think you said, something on a trial basis there was some reference
there to trying things out for a while to see how things worked out. That was
.. it wasn't. Maybe I am misreading that.
13
Commissioner Allen - I think John did reference that, but as I listened,
they have been trying it for 26 years haven't they and it has worked very well,
as I hear it.
Commissioner Hodges - It saves taxpayers money.
Commissioner Allen - Yeah.
Mayor Graves - Okay if anybody wants to make a comment on the motion,
but not on anything else, just the motion. Are you ready for the question.
Commissioner Hodges - I call for the question.
Mayor Graves - Dan, are you ready for the question?
Commissioner Geis - The question as stated is to maintain the status
quo indifinitely? I was thinking I heard something on a trial basis, so maybe I
hadn't, but I was listening to these things and realizing that we don't have,
we really haven't had a chance to work with the Lower Indian Rock to see where
we are on this, so I was thinking maybe on maintaining the status quo this year
and check into it next year, after they have had a full year's ...
Commissioner Duckers - .. that is implied.
Mayor Graves - as soon as the crocuses come up the baseball problem
surfaces every year.
Commissioner Duckers - Can you imagine a spring without baseball on
the agenda?
Bill Harris - In hopes of avoiding another point of confusion or
disagreement, who is going to be responsible for the maintenance of this diamond?
The City of Salina? The Recreation Commission or Adult Baseball Committee?
Before we leave today we should ..
Commissioner Duckers - Bill my understanding, the City of Salina has
been in cooperation with the Recreat.. with the Baseball Committee doing it down
through the years, and I would think it would continue that ..
Bill Harris - I think that is right. Along with John, you are the guy
that has done the maintenance work, tell us what has or has not been done on
this diamond.
John Estes - We do the major maintenance getting ready for the baseball
season. The Babe Ruth and American Legion does the day-to-day maintenance on it
after that time.
Commissioner Duckers - Do you mow?
John Estes - They do the mowing.
John Dennis - Knights of Columbus representative, I am not familiar
with this program as much I am with the smaller kids, but I do remember the old
Blue Jay Park when maintenance on it was a problem. And the problems stern from
the fact, as I understand it, that the city nor the county could agree on whose
facility it way to start with. And while everybody was fighting about it, this
group of people had to go out and maintain the diamonds and'I can see the same
thing coming here. I believe it is a public facility and most of the useage is
by tax paying citizens. I believe the city ought to maintain the diamonds.
Mayor Graves - We'll we are just in effect perhaps going to vote on a
motion that would say a public facility is going to be turned over to private
groups though, so there might be some questions ..
of Salina. John Dennis - it is a private organization but they are still citizens
Mayor Graves - Well, that is a good point. If they weren't playing in
that program, they would be playing on the tax payers program.
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Commissioner Geis - I think that is where I part company with them,
because I can't see giving public things to a private oroup.
Commissioner Hodges - Dan, I see what you are trying to say but the
point is this diamond is really being used. If it were not being used, then I
would say hey, I don't think they ought to have use to it, but in effect they
are saving the city money by paying for what they are doing, and it is beinq
used, obviously from the scheduling, that son of a gun is busy all the time so
if it wasn't being used then I just don't think I would Okay it, but it is being
used a lot.
Commissioner Geis - Well then I would like to make a motion to amend
the motion to the fact that the city would provide major maintenance in preparatio
for the season, but all other maintenance would be provided by those groups
using the facility.
Mayor Graves - Is there a second to that amendment?
Commissioner Duckers - I will second that amendment because that is
essentially what is being done.
Mayor Graves - Is there any discussion on the motion to amend?
Commissioner Allen - Question.
Mayor Graves - Okay, then we will vote on the amendment which is the
city will provide major maintenance and private programs would provide the daily
maintenance.
Commissioner Hodges - I think he said maintenance to get the park
ready, and then after the season starts the Adult Baseball Committee will be in
charge of keeping it up to snuff.
Mayor Graves called for a vote on the motion to amend. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
Mayor Graves called for a vote on the amended motion, to reject staff
item 5 but encourage full cooperation. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A REPORT was received from the City Engineer on the feasibility of
one-way traffic in Sunset Park. "The width of the street through Sunset Park is
30 feet face of curb to face of curb except at the east entrance on Sunset Drive
which is 40 feet wide. With vehicles parked on both sides the street becomes
very narrow for two-way traffic, even for the slow speeds within the park area.
"It is the opinion of this office that a one-way traffic flow could
work very well in this park. It should reduce congestion during periods of
heavy usage and certainly reduce the chance for accidents.
"If the one-way system is adopted we would recommend the construction
of two asphalt medians similar to the existing median at the north entrance, as
these will be helpful in channelizing the traffic to a one-way system.
"I have attached a sketch of the Sunset Park showing the recommended
improvements and signing for a one-way street plan. The signing should be as
indicated by X and 0 on the sketch, using "one-way" signs with arrows and "wrong
way do not enter" signs. Parking should be restricted as indicated by the
dashed lines shown on the sketch at the entrances and adjacent to the medians,
as well as the present restrictions in front of the band shell.
"The estimated costs for the two median islands is $1,700.00 and
$200.00 for the signs and posts, making a total expenditure of $1,900.00."
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Hodges, seconded by Commissioner
Geis to accept the City Engineer's recommendation to make the traffic in Sunset
Park one-way. Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
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A RESOLUTION was introduced and passed entitled: "A RESOLUTION authori:
the designation of the drive in Sunset Park as a one-way street; and authorizing
the installation and marking of the drive with the appropriate signs." A motion
was made by Commissioner Hodges, seconded by Commissioner Geis to adopt the
Resolution as read and the following vote was had: Ayes: Allen, suckers, Geis,
Hodges, Graves (5). Nays: (0). Carried. The Mayor approved the Resolution and
it is numbered 3424.
A RESOLUTION was introduced and passed entitled: "A RESOLUTION restrict
the standing or parking of vehicles on certain portions of streets within the
City of Salina in accordance with the provisions of Section 22-145 of the Salina
Code." (Scanlan Avenue from Bailey Road a distance of 435 feet north and 200
feet south; and Bailey Road from the intersection of Scanlan Avenue a distance
of 150 feet east and 900 feet west.) A motion was made by Commissioner Duckers,
seconded by Commissioner Geis to adopt the Resolution as read and the following
vote was had: Ayes: Allen, Duckers, Geis, Hodges, Graves (5). Nays: (0).
Carried. The Mayor approved the resolution and it is numbered 3425.
PUBLIC AGENDA
PETITION NUMBER 3755 was filed by Darrell Francisco for the annexation
of a tract in Plat 53 in the Southeast Quarter of the Southwest Quarter of 36-
13-3, and the right to hook on the city water supply across the street west. A
motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Duckers to refer
the petition to the City Planning Commission for a recommendation. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3756 was filed by Colleen Francisco for the annexation
of a tract of land in Plat 53 in the Southeast Quarter of the Southwest Quarter
of 36-13-3, and the right to hook on the city water supply across the street
west. A motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Allen to
refer the petition to the City Planning Commission for a recommendation. Ayes:
(5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
PETITION NUMBER 3757 was filed by Oscar and Deloris Tappendick for the
annexation of a tract of land in Plat 53 in the Southeast Quarter of the Southwes
Quarter of 36-13-3, and the right to hook on the city water supply across the
street west. A motion was made by Commissioner Allen, seconded by Commissioner
Geis to refer the petition to the City Planning Commission for a recommendation.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
A REQUEST was received from United Securities to give a progress
report on Single -Family Mortgage Revenue Bonds for Salina and Saline County.
Steve Shogren, United Securities - I would like to update the City
Commission as to the progress of this type of program. Just to review, in favor
of your new Commissioners and your new City Manager, in June of 1978 Chicago
issued $100,000,000 worth of single family mortgage backed revenue bonds to
finance low interest cost mortgage money for their residence in Chicago. Several
cities have followed suit on that including Denver, Pueblo and cities throughout
the United States now; so with that in mind in January of this year we came to
Salina and invited the City Commissioners and the County Commissioners and
people from the financial institutions in the city to discuss the possibility of
this type of bond issue for Salina and Saline County. Later after those meetings,
after several discussions, it was decided and contracts were drawn up between
our firm and Kirkner Moore Company out of Denver and the City and County both,
to do a feasibility study. 14e hired, after that, Kennedy and Coe here in Salina
to do a data study to determine the feasibility of such a project for the City
of Salina and for Saline County. Meantime the legislators got to work, both on
the state level, predominately on the state level first, Senate Bill 199 was
adopted finally. I should explain at that time when we first started visiting
about this, there was no legislation here in the State of Kansas, authorizing
the issuance of this type of bond. Nome rule was a possibility and of course we
were against that, we thought that would open up the proverbial can of worms
throughout the State of Kansas, so we recommended cities wait until legislation
Nas adopted or legislation was adopted permitting this type of financing or
adopted to shut off this type of financing. Finally in late April, legislation
Nas adopted, Senate Bill 199, allowing cities and counties to issue these type
)f revenue bonds to provide low cost mortgage money and consequently, since the
16
State of Kansas was a little bit slow in determining this issue, during that
period of time, I might say in the first quarter of 1979, there was 1.5 billion
dollars worth of these type bonds issued throughout the United States. This
amount of new type of security into our money market, in the tax exempt sector,
naturally catches the eye of the Treasury Department and so the legislation,
just last week, was introduced in the committee by Al Ullman, the Senate House
Ways and Means Committee to stop this type of financing. That bill was introduced
and they are going to conduct hearings on it, here May 14th and 15th to see if
they can shut off this type of financing. We got to work right away. !le are
concerned. We think this type of financing will be stopped. We believe this.
Our attorneys believe this. But also last week, several bond issues in the
State of Kentucky that are in the same type of situation that your bond issue is
in. You do not have a bond issue yet, but you are looking into the possibility
of a bond issue. This was Al Ullman and the House flays and Means Committee was
approached by three cities in Kentucky that said we are working toward the
project and we have done this, this, and this and can we continue, or does this
legislation affect us? He said go ahead and do your bond issues. !ale understand
that you have been working toward a project and you can continue. Okay, United
Securities and Kirkner Moore has the same type of relationship with Seward
County, Finney County, Ford County and Crawford as we do in Saline County and
Salina, and we have acquired an audience with the Senate House Ways and )deans
Committee for this coming Wednesday. At that time we are goinq to ask if we,
these counties can also be what we call grandfathered through and proceed with
our projects; and this is why I wanted to visit with you as Commissioners
today. We would like to include, those other counties have aqreed and have
signed letters asking for permission to proceed with the bond issues. ►,le hope
that they will be grandfathered. To be honest with you, I think it is a 50/50
chance. They all may be killed as of that point in time, but I would like to
include Salina and Saline County in this request to proceed and look into the
feasibility of this type of bond issue. I want to repeat, we are not asking you
to say we are going to do a bond issue. Kennedy and Coe, because of the
legislative problem here in the State of Kansas, delayed its studies and did not
get a lot of cooperation from the savings and loans and so it is just proceeding
now.
Commissioner Duckers asked if the city signs a letter of declaration
of intent, if that is a commitment to business or if it authorizes him to use
the city's name as a prospect.
Mr. Shogren - That's right. I am not asking for a letter of intent to
issue bonds of any kind. What we are asking and I have a letter that I would
like to have all you Commissioners to look at it is a letter statinq we understan
what has happened in the national scene as far as these bonds and we want you to
understand we have spend considerable time and efford looking into this type of
bond issue. Our deligation on Wednesday will explain that legislation in Kansas
delayed us from proceeding quicker on these bond issues, and so we would like to
at least look into the feasibility of a bond issue for Salina and Saline County,
and that is what we are asking. We will be more than happy to take a representat
of the City Commission of Salina with us to Washington D.C. to explain your
position, if you desire to do so. It is not necessary, but we would like to
have, we feel like if we don't act at this time the Salina, Saline County issue
will be a dead thing, and we want you to have the opportunity to at least look
at the data study and determine whether it is needed. If we don't act now I am
afraid we are not going to get an audience and that Commission, and we believe
and our attorneys believe will stop these type of bond issues; because they are
becoming too much of an impact in the national sector. It is going to hurt bond
issue rates of all types.
Mr. Nye - Who has introduced it in the Senate?
Mr. Shogren - Nobody has introduced in the Senate.
Mr. Nye - So it has not been introduced there?
Mr. Shogren - That's right.
Mr. Nye - Do you know who the chairman of the Senate Tax Committee is?
Mr. Shogren - No, I don't.
I •j
Mr. Nye - Well I do. It is a Senator from Louisiana and he is very
much in favor of these. I just wonder what the rush is to get down in front of
this house committee?
Mr. Shogren - We use the advice of our attorneys. Our attorneys are
involved, they are national attorneys out of Omaha involved in these bond issues
very closely, and they believe that there is a lot negative feeling toward these
type of bonds because it is, there has been a big influx the 1.6 billion is a
large part of the municipal market and eventually, if this continues, and it is
just started, the ball is only rolling here in Kansas, as well as other states
and that should double in the next quarter, they anticipate if they don't put a
stop to it, and the treasury is very concerned about it and naturally so, and
the United States Senate is also. Now I don't know whether the chairman is in
favor of them. I think they are a good program or we wouldn't be here to explain
it to Salina. We want to see them done. 14e want to see Salina have the
opportunity to at least look at the study and we feel like there is a good
possibility that the House Ways and Means Committee is going to recommend that
they adopt this bill that says these issues from now on will not have federal
tax exemption, and that is why we would like to see Salina at least have the
opportunity. We are not asking for a letter of intent to issue bonds
The Commissioners, staff and Mr. Shogren discussed the issue, and the
suggested letters to go to the Senators and Representatives.
The Commissioners thanked Mr. Shogren for the update, and took no
action to endorse the letters and opted to see the feasibility study before they
take any further action.
COMMISSION AGENDA
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Allen
to place appointments to boards and commissions on the agenda for consideration.
Ayes: (5). Nays: (0). Motion carried.
THE MAYOR, with the approval of the Board of Commissioners made the
following appointments:
Convention and Tourism Committee
Mike Harmon appointed to fill the unexpired term of Dave Sanborn to
October 1, 1979.
Library Board
James L. Geisendorf, appointed to succeed Col. John Hoyne, for a 4
year term to April 30, 1983
Salina Citizens' Advisory Committee
.11
Marilyn Urion, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Hal Headley to
November 21, 1980.
Harry Phillips, reaffirmed to November 21, 1981.
D
Nancy Schroeder, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Mrs. Norb
ISkelley to November 21, 1981.
F
Col. John Hoyne, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Ken
Klostermeyer to November 21, 1979.
Judy Curran, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Ralph Pihl to
November 21, 1981.
iii
18
G
Roger Haage, appointed to fill the unexpired term of George Etherington
to November 21, 1979.
Lloyd Webb, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Stephen Ryan to
November 21, 1979.
Dorothy Guliford, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Dayton Jones
to November 21, 1981.
J
Naomi Wooster, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Harry Fuller to
November 21, 1979.
K
Mickey Woolard, appointed to succeed Bill Denney for a 3 year term to
November 21, 1981.
Larry Lysell, appointed to fill a new position, for a 3 year term to
November 21, 1981.
Merlin Stephens, reaffirmed to November 21, 1980.
L
Connie Rife, appointed to succeed Rex ►Moods, for a 3 year term to
November 21, 1981,
Art Adams, appointed to succeed Bob Duggan, for a 3 year term to
November 21, 1981.
Doug Smith, reappointed for a 3 year term to November 21, 1981.
Brad Baucom, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Beulah Markley
to November 21, 1981.
Dr. Jerry Lundgrin, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Linda
Campbell to November 21, 1979.
Hazel Shea, appointed to fill a new position for a 3 year term to
November 21, 1981.
Norma Montgomery, appointed to fill the unexpired term of D. Hayne
Montgomery to November 21, 1980.
M
Tony Buccigrassi, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Floyd Gwinn
to November 21, 1980.
Craig Kern, appointed to fill the unexpired term of Rick !Milson to
November 21, 1981.
IJ
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Duckers, seconded by Commissioner
Allen to place an item concerning sidewalks in the former Schilling Manor, on
the agenda for consideration. Ayes: Allen, Duckers, Hodges (3). Nays: Graves,
Geis (2). Motion carried.
Norris Olson explained that he wants to install curb sidewalks in
Hollybrooke Addition, and the contractor is ready to install the sidewalks, and
that he was not aware it took special permission from the City Commission to
install curb sidewalks. He presented a petition, which was later numbered 3759.
He asked for City Commission approval today of curb sidewalks.
A motion was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner
Hodges to refer the petition to the City Engineer for a recommendation.
Commissioner Allen asked the City Engineer if he is prepared to report
today.
Mr. Boyer reported that there are already some 4' curb sidewalks in
the addition, and that he recommends the installation of curb sidewalks, but
that they be 5 feet in width.
The Mayor called for a vote on the motion to refer the petition to the
City Engineer for a recommendation. Ayes: Geis, Graves, Hodges (3). gays:
Duckers, Allen (2). Motion carried.
A MOTION was made by Commissioner Geis, seconded by Commissioner Allen
that the Regular Meeting of the Board of Commissioners be adjourned. Ayes: (5).
Nays: (0). Motion carried. The meeting adjourned at 6:06 P.M.
D. L. Harrison, City Clerk
1